China riots, island tensions and the UN -updated

[GundamSentinel]

The spoils of war!

Yeah, some Chinese guy apparently mistook a Mercedes for a Mitsubishi... After this, shutting down two Panasonic factories because of arson, 'mistakenly' setting fire to a Samsung factory (they thought it was Japanese or just hate Koreans as well), cripling a guy for driving a Japanese car and the government making Japan responsible for all damages and more general idiocy, can China humiliate itself even further? I sure hope not...

 

[MetalMagpie]

What is it with Asian countries and hating each other so much? They're getting to be almost as bad as differing religious sects that will murder each other at the drop of a hat.

The Japanese invaded China in 1937 and was in constant conflict until 1945. During the invasion and occupation anything up to 4 million Chinese died, including single incidents like the Nanking Massacre where 200-400,000 died. The Japanese are as about as popular in China as the Germans are in Israel for rather similar reasons.


On the Japanese side the Chinese government are rather fond of making territorial claims based on brief historical control or even Imperial propaganda claims of control. Rather like the Spanish claiming control of Holland because they controlled the country for 60 years in the 1500s. China has invaded and controls Tibet, invaded India and still occupies the disputed land, invaded Vietnam and forced the giving up of claims to control of other South China seas islands and lastly engaged the Russians in regimental sized battles over the disputed border. In China has added more land to itself by armed force than any other nation since WW2. Which somewhat concerns its neighbours

Yep, that basically sums it up.

The current not-too-bad-really relationship between England and France is mostly thanks to the two World Wars. And (arguably) relations had only cooled enough to take the same side in those wars thanks to the diplomatic efforts of people such as Edward VII, who spoke fluent French and visited Paris a lot (mostly for the prostitutes!) during his time as Prince Regent to Queen Victoria.

Without those factors, the UK and France might still behaving in a similar fashion.

I find it hard to believe this is happening in the 21st century. Why the hell would the whole of China lose its shit over a couple of little islands which they haven't owned for ages? I thought the human race was past the whole land-grabbing obsession. Empires are built through businesses now, not occupation of land. These kind of acts just look barbaric nowadays. Or perhaps this is just about the oil?

From a political perspective, it's probably mostly about the oil. (Black gold and all that.) Also, all of the above reasons why the two countries just don't like each other!

 

[wings012]

And ultimately, all these bloody riots do is hurt China itself.

I just hope the Malaysian Chinese down here aren't nearly as retarded as that lot. Though I'm sure the local Malay police will be happy to oblige those dumb enough and beat/shoot/gas some sense into them.

 

[Albino Boo]

Tell that to the Tibetans who they invaded in 1956, the Indians who they attacked in 1962, the Russians who they attacked in 1969 and the Vietnamese who they attacked in 1979.

to the Chinese Tibet is part of China. it only existed as an independent state for 30 years of its entire history. "old maps" as i said before.

the rest were cold war border conflicts that resulted in next to no territorial change and directly led to the Sino-Soviet split and China becoming a US ally in the cold war. if you want to frame those as Chinese "imperialist" aggression you simply are making a mockery of far more complicated history involved.

and by my "logic" nothing. my or your supposed "logic" and your desire for the world to adhere to it while throwing around false equivalences doesn't shape the world. but the Chinese Confuciust view of China does shape their world and maybe just maybe you should find out what the hell that is before you go trying to label them the next overly simplistic "big bad" on the world stage simply because for your own world view to work you've got to have one.

this ? this a an argument about a rock in the sea akin to multitudes of others some of which almost certainly involve your own country ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_territorial_disputes ) and as such it doesn't particularly mark China down as anything.

Just how long did Poland exist as independent country before the Germans invaded? Tibet has been part of China for periods of history, first coming into Chinese control under the Mongols and has come and gone since with the strength of the ruling dynasties. Much like Poland has appeared and disappeared in the same time period. China since WW2 has consistently used armed force in backing its view of the borders, in the process killing 10000s of poeple and attempting to destroy any non Chinese culture within its selfdefined borders. 90% of countries in the world can make convincing historical claims to control of parts or even entire other countries, why is it acceptable for China to used armed force on its claims but not Mexico to invade the US to reclaim the southern half of the US?

 

[BirdKiller]

The fight over the islands isn't for the land or the resources around it, but a matter of pride between these nations. For the most part, the Chinese, Koreans, and Japanese have rivalries going on, part because of race (each think they're superior), history (as someone else has given a summary of), and culture (yes, each culture is different). The fight/protest over the islands is merely a manifest of that. There are other things going on:

Korea and Japan has issues with some different islands

China and Korea has issues over which part of the Yellow Sea belongs to them

Japan supposedly/seemingly not showing much regret over their role in WWII, much less educating their public, from the perspective of Korean/Chinese.

Things like these keep refreshing the "triangle of hate" the region seems to have. Doesn't help that these countries are also competing economically, politically, and militarily.

As for the current protests going in China against Japan: There's not going to be any dramatic or long term consequences. Such protests and regional conflicts have occurred frequently for the last 2 decades. You're only hearing it now because the media reports it and an individual has more options to show it. I wouldn't deduce anything from this other than the fact that regional differences and rivalry are still well and alive.

 

[BirdKiller]

Tell that to the Tibetans who they invaded in 1956, the Indians who they attacked in 1962, the Russians who they attacked in 1969 and the Vietnamese who they attacked in 1979.

to the Chinese Tibet is part of China. it only existed as an independent state for 30 years of its entire history. "old maps" as i said before.

the rest were cold war border conflicts that resulted in next to no territorial change and directly led to the Sino-Soviet split and China becoming a US ally in the cold war. if you want to frame those as Chinese "imperialist" aggression you simply are making a mockery of far more complicated history involved.

and by my "logic" nothing. my or your supposed "logic" and your desire for the world to adhere to it while throwing around false equivalences doesn't shape the world. but the Chinese Confuciust view of China does shape their world and maybe just maybe you should find out what the hell that is before you go trying to label them the next overly simplistic "big bad" on the world stage simply because for your own world view to work you've got to have one.

this ? this a an argument about a rock in the sea akin to multitudes of others some of which almost certainly involve your own country ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_territorial_disputes ) and as such it doesn't particularly mark China down as anything.

Just how long did Poland exist as independent country before the Germans invaded? Tibet has been part of China for periods of history, first coming into Chinese control under the Mongols and has come and gone since with the strength of the ruling dynasties. Much like Poland has appeared and disappeared in the same time period. China since WW2 has consistently used armed force in backing its view of the borders, in the process killing 10000s of poeple and attempting to destroy any non Chinese culture within its selfdefined borders. 90% of countries in the world can make convincing historical claims to control of parts or even entire other countries, why is it acceptable for China to used armed force on its claims but not Mexico to invade the US to reclaim the southern half of the US?

The example of Mexico vs. U.S. is probably a poor example considering we did win the territories after a war and forcing Mexico to sign a document legitimizing the U.S.'s ownership of that land.

There's nothing wrong with Mexico invading the U.S. to reclaim the same territories...if Mexico is willing to become the 51st state of the United States after it surrenders.

 

[Giftfromme]

well, if you cant fight them..

lol for me it says, "Content not Available. We are sorry, this content is not available for your country"

lol how fucking silly. Since I don't have any proxies, please do enlighten me what it is about

But on topic, this is some crazy shit. It won't go to war, but just shows how powerful state media can be, fucking scary actually

 

[CpT_x_Killsteal]

So some rich guys bought them from from China. Then Japan bought it from the rich guys.

Get over yourself China. You're making yourself look like North Korea.

 

[Doclector]

Shit. This looks serious. This makes the london riots look like a literal fucking tea party.

In fact...this sounds familiar...*rushes to copy of world war z*

Pg 4, the first story in the first chapter, "warnings" about patient zero...in New Dachang, china.

Gentlemen. Prepare your shelters.

 

[000Ronald]

Shit. This looks serious. This makes the london riots look like a literal fucking tea party.

In fact...this sounds familiar...*rushes to copy of world war z*

Pg 4, the first story in the first chapter, "warnings" about patient zero...in New Dachang, china.

Gentlemen. Prepare your shelters.

Don't say that! Don't even think that!

*shudder*

 

[Fappy]

Damn this looks pretty damn serious
Hope we don't get another Tiananmen Square Massacre on our hands...

With how easy it is the access information in this day and age... I doubt China would want to repeat that horribly embarrassing mistake.

 

[Tadd]

So strange... I live in Shanghai, but I haven't seen anything crazy like this happen.. well, early days yet.

Let me summarise this, as to how I understand the history over here:
1) 14th century, China claims islands
2) 1890 Japan takes over islands (in a war)
3) WWII America takes over islands
4) 1970 America gives islands back to Japan, China doesn't object or say anything

A few days ago we had an air-raid drill across China, you know, those sirens you hear in Silent Hill (also from WWII) as the world changes before you... I didn't know it was a drill and promptly began sh*tting myself.

Aside from the resources that can be gained from owning these islands (gas deposits and oil, I believe), the biggest motivation for this conflict is "face"... a concept many in the West have difficulty understanding.

This concept of "face" as well as thousands upon thousands of years of culture and history is easily scoffed at by people of the West; for it is considered beneath them. China refuses to be seen as weak, in the past it has been exploited by the West and Japan many times...

Japan refuses to acknowledge what is had done during WWII. They even refuse to educate their younger generations as to what they did to China during the invasion. Japan also has shrines for the fallen soldiers and "heroes" who massacred and raped China and they are often commemorated, worshipped, etc.

Imagine if Germany had shrines to the "heroes" who helped exterminate the millions of Jews in the extermination camps and to the "heroes" who blitzed London... maybe now you have a small insight as to how delicate things are over here.

It is difficult to understand things foreign and easy to draw comparisons to the limited experiences we have. Many people in the UK think it is bat-sh*t crazy, that people in America can walk the streets with guns, therefore they assume people are getting shot; left-right and center... it is easy for the people of UK to say "Hey, why don't you Americans just ban guns? We do, in the UK... simple" However, there are those in the UK who can look past these simplified and arguably ignorant remarks and reach understandings as to why America does what it does.

Educate yourselves. Look into the history of these islands. Look at both sides of the stories. Travel to China and Japan. Talk to the people.

[edit: typo]

 

[ResonanceSD]

What's this saying?


Nationalism. The ultimate killer of any sensible society. Well done China, well done indeed. This is why no one on Earth is willing to treat you like a grown up.

 

[Paradoxrifts]

Nice to see good old fashioned 1940's style nationalism is still alive and well, and ready and willing to repeat the mistakes of the last century all over again. I do however have full confidence that the Chinese government to be able to settle this down (Read: crush through overwhelming force) once it stops becoming politically convenient.

 

[Sacman]

Oh, eastern Asia, and your crazy, self destructive, socially degrading ideas of pride and nationalism, which more often than not crosses the border from xenophobia to racism...<.<

Pro tip... be cool... it's just some islands...<.<

 

[exessmirror]

they belong to japan, china didn't protest when they first acquired it.

 

[ResonanceSD]

I do however have full confidence that the Chinese government to be able to settle this down (Read: crush through overwhelming force) once it stops becoming politically convenient.

^ Aren't we a bunch of completely correct cynics today.

Oh, eastern Asia, and your crazy, self destructive, socially degrading ideas of pride and nationalism, which more often than not crosses the border from xenophobia to racism...<.<

Hey, watch yourself, I take offence to the uncapitalised E.

 

[juyunseen]

wow. Riots. Riots everywhere.

Also, major respect to the guy throwing the tear-gas back at the police. He's got spirit.