College in the US: Total waste of time
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You seem like an intelligent fella, so I probably do not need to say this. Regardless please take it as advice. Teaching ESL should not be taken lightly. Many wrongly assume it is easy to teach English if they speak it. I would recommend getting a qualification before heading out otherwise your classes will suck (and you probably won't realise). Not sure what the equivalent is in the States, but for those in the UK a Trinity or CELTA is a good place to start. They are tough courses that last a month, but will give you good prep and some classroom experience before you are in some school in the middle of nowhere with poor facilities and 50+ students per class.TWRule said:
ESL is a good way to get overseas. However, if you have a degree or higher in a subject such as maths, physics etc look for jobs there too. I teach business and economics, so do not overlook the possibility to teach such subjects in colleges and schools (particularly foreign ones in Asia). This will give you work in a field you can more easily take back home. Additionally you will find you are paid more than those teaching English as ESL teachers are two a penny (very common).
No worries; my father and sister have been doing it for a living for some time now and trying contracts in many different countries to test the waters, so I more or less know what to expect. I also have some teaching experience under my belt and will have more with full classrooms over the course of the next couple years in my master's program, but yes, I'll likely take same certification course that my father did. I'm not relying on it as a main career path, in any case (that's what the grad school is for), just an option if I have trouble finding work in my chosen field after grad school. I appreciate the concern though.Mr C said:
Ok on Philosophy... Its one side of a coin. You do see jobs out there where philosophy degree is actually beneficial. Social work, Psychologist, Political scientist, economist, legal etc. Philosophy is more practical and robust than people give it credit for. I think that is because people have a tendency to expect roles to be clearly defined and just like philosophy, it is completely vague and shrouded in mystery. To find the usage of the study in a relatable field is part of that mystery and what separates those who can, and those who do in the field.
In short.. Philosophy is fairly useful, the trick is to find and explain how it is useful.
In short.. Philosophy is fairly useful, the trick is to find and explain how it is useful.
Yeah.. but there's Universities that teach the following: Psychology, sociology, Political Science, Economy and law. I'd think a graduate from any of those would have at least a lead compared to a philosophy student? I love economy, I wanted to study it but the university I'm at has a very social approach to it and the math aspect of it is just laughable, and I can't live without heavy mathematics in my curriculum.viranimus said:
Well, at least one reason to study these things is because it is where your passions lie and because you feel a deep and profound passion for literatur and written word in general.
Oddly enough all the people I know, who studied their sciences for that reason do quite well in professional ife.
Contrary to popular belief there are jobs for Philosophy and English Literature Majors. The problem is the same as with any other degree: The best jobs go to the best graduates. So if you slacked your way through college and graduated with an essay on how Hamlet is about and adolescent mind revolting against paternal moral norms... then you are probably not going to cut it. And even if you are going to cut it, then you probably will never make as much money as they guy who built the computer you are using for your work. But making money is not why people go into science.
And there is nothing wrong with that, because this is how advanced education is supposed to work. Hard work, dedication and passion are what graduating should be about.
The fact that they will give any dupe with two terms worth of physics under his belt a position in a nuclear power plant does not neccesarily serve as a point in favor of those professions.
But of course I understand your point, especially with the US-System, where saying "I don't go to college to earn a lot of money later, but because Philosophy is my passion" is kind of a strange statement, since going to college will cost you about as much as a small house. Making money later doesn't seem like an option, but like a requirrement.
Oddly enough all the people I know, who studied their sciences for that reason do quite well in professional ife.
Contrary to popular belief there are jobs for Philosophy and English Literature Majors. The problem is the same as with any other degree: The best jobs go to the best graduates. So if you slacked your way through college and graduated with an essay on how Hamlet is about and adolescent mind revolting against paternal moral norms... then you are probably not going to cut it. And even if you are going to cut it, then you probably will never make as much money as they guy who built the computer you are using for your work. But making money is not why people go into science.
And there is nothing wrong with that, because this is how advanced education is supposed to work. Hard work, dedication and passion are what graduating should be about.
The fact that they will give any dupe with two terms worth of physics under his belt a position in a nuclear power plant does not neccesarily serve as a point in favor of those professions.
But of course I understand your point, especially with the US-System, where saying "I don't go to college to earn a lot of money later, but because Philosophy is my passion" is kind of a strange statement, since going to college will cost you about as much as a small house. Making money later doesn't seem like an option, but like a requirrement.
Not everyone wants to be a doctor or engineer or whatever, but some of those people ALSO don't want to end up working at a fast food joint or other unskilled job for the rest of their life. Even if a college degree isn't guaranteed to get you a job, the fact of the matter is that a lot of employers look to hire people with degrees so you don't really have a choice now do you?
Also I hate the attitude that people in the sciences have towards the humanities. Just, gah, you meet such assholes sometimes.
Also I hate the attitude that people in the sciences have towards the humanities. Just, gah, you meet such assholes sometimes.
Fucking sad that so many people here see study and the pursuit of knowledge as a means to an end and not an experience in and of itself. A product of our consumer driven society no doubt. Worship the clock and the dollar, etc.
Breaking news, guys: some people enjoy learning and see higher education as a chance to enrich themselves.
Breaking news, guys: some people enjoy learning and see higher education as a chance to enrich themselves.
I completely agree with the op. that's why my plan is computer science/software engineer. Jobs are plentiful in that industry.
I studied English and Creative Writing and the jobs I've gotten offers for (and taken) have all been on the basis of the Creative Writing part of my degree. So yeah, I am actually expecting to get a job as a writer. Someone I know who did philosophy now has a job as a social youth worker (religious social care)
A course in Plumbing has one application, and if there aren't enough jobs for plumbers then you've just wasted three years of your life. A degree in English can be applied to so many hundreds of jobs, because although there may not be jobs for 'English Speaker' or 'Writer' there will be jobs for 'Office Assistant,' 'Marketing and Communications Coordinator,' 'Admissions Officer,' which will all require the skills that are acquired through a good English degree, but not through engineering or medicine etc.
Now admittedly I am British, so maybe there is some huge disconnect in the US and all jobs everywhere require all Secretaries and Librarians and Marketers to have degrees in their chosen field instead of the broader based subjects, but the whole reason English courses are so popular is because they have so many applications. not everyone knows from the age of 15 that they want to be an engineer or a scientist. Some people like to keep their options open.
Broad based subjects have so many useful applications, and there are so many jobs that require people to have those skills. All those engineers and doctors and physicists couldn't function without the humble office assistant sending their memos and taking their dictations and organising their lives (I know teachers in my job who can't organise so that they have a pen and the materials for their own class), and the best way to learn to be a good office assistant is through some course with analytic reading and writing included. Just like an English degree.
A course in Plumbing has one application, and if there aren't enough jobs for plumbers then you've just wasted three years of your life. A degree in English can be applied to so many hundreds of jobs, because although there may not be jobs for 'English Speaker' or 'Writer' there will be jobs for 'Office Assistant,' 'Marketing and Communications Coordinator,' 'Admissions Officer,' which will all require the skills that are acquired through a good English degree, but not through engineering or medicine etc.
Now admittedly I am British, so maybe there is some huge disconnect in the US and all jobs everywhere require all Secretaries and Librarians and Marketers to have degrees in their chosen field instead of the broader based subjects, but the whole reason English courses are so popular is because they have so many applications. not everyone knows from the age of 15 that they want to be an engineer or a scientist. Some people like to keep their options open.
Broad based subjects have so many useful applications, and there are so many jobs that require people to have those skills. All those engineers and doctors and physicists couldn't function without the humble office assistant sending their memos and taking their dictations and organising their lives (I know teachers in my job who can't organise so that they have a pen and the materials for their own class), and the best way to learn to be a good office assistant is through some course with analytic reading and writing included. Just like an English degree.
what really pisses me off is that students who have been in uni for 5 years or more studying for their career job, only to be "over qualified" by that career job. that makes no freakin sense. what was the point of wasting all that money and years in school?
I honestly couldn't have said it better myself. These programs are pretty straight forward and are easy (in that the work load and the mental load is not that great in comparison to programs in say the sciences or engineering, not easy in that its a free mark since that isn't always the case). I take anthropology courses as an elective towards an anthro minor, but its the same thing with that. Your career choices if you do anthro are essentially: teach, study/research (in whatever field you specialize), or work in HR or something related. Granted that's more open than most of the other humanities and social science fields, but its still pretty limited.Rabid Toilet said:
Still I hope they don't get rid of these programs. I win cause if you're smart you'll pick the ones that are easy and get a free 90, and the school wins cause they get paid.
Certain careers are doing much better than others, like engineering and computer sciences. The problem is not everyone is an engineer or computer science person.
I did go into English at college and I did get hired as a writer rather quickly. I still new to the profession so I am not making tons of money, but who knows what the future holds. I don't consider myself lucky.
Several of my English major friends later used their skills to become teachers. Several went overseas to teach English to students in Japan, Vietnam, Indonesia, etc.
(They got paid a lot of money to do it)
Several of my other English Major friends got jobs in other fields that were non English related, but it was their degree that got them the job.
I political science professor encouraged me to go into English because, and I'll quote..."it's never a bad thing for potential employees to know how to write. At the very least your resume will look nice."
If you think something is waste of time, you are probably right. It would be a waste of time for a person hoping to go into computer science to take philosophy course.
I took English, because I liked the subject matter and I knew I could do good work. I would be wasted studying in another field.
I've always thought of Education as its own reward, but that's my opinion.
To summerize: I will never see my English Degree as a waste of time. I am better person for taking English.
And remember, time you enjoyed wasting, was not time wasted.
I did go into English at college and I did get hired as a writer rather quickly. I still new to the profession so I am not making tons of money, but who knows what the future holds. I don't consider myself lucky.
Several of my English major friends later used their skills to become teachers. Several went overseas to teach English to students in Japan, Vietnam, Indonesia, etc.
(They got paid a lot of money to do it)
Several of my other English Major friends got jobs in other fields that were non English related, but it was their degree that got them the job.
I political science professor encouraged me to go into English because, and I'll quote..."it's never a bad thing for potential employees to know how to write. At the very least your resume will look nice."
If you think something is waste of time, you are probably right. It would be a waste of time for a person hoping to go into computer science to take philosophy course.
I took English, because I liked the subject matter and I knew I could do good work. I would be wasted studying in another field.
I've always thought of Education as its own reward, but that's my opinion.
To summerize: I will never see my English Degree as a waste of time. I am better person for taking English.
And remember, time you enjoyed wasting, was not time wasted.
As an English and History major I can say your completely wrong on your assumptions of job opportunity. Believe it or not having a degree in English opens several doors to employment in almost every field imaginable. From journalism to research, criticism to editing, there are a multitude of jobs available to someone with a degree in English. Just because someone has a degree in something doesn't mean they know how to use it. Those people you see complaining about not finding a job probably don't want a job or they produce crap they believe to be gold and refuse to accept that they are their own problem in employment. To use my self as an example I'm majoring in English and History. I write for the university newspaper, where I have a job offering. I'm an editor for the literary magazine the university produces as well as a contributing author. And I'm a personal trainer at the university gym. Your degree doesn't determine your employment or your job prospects. you do.