Competitive Multiplayer Choices That you don't Respect

[Souplex]

My friend considering any level that is not Final Destination to not be worth playing as it doesn't take skill if it isn't there. Also him getting annoyed when I play Diddy Kong.

It was especially bad in melee. Brawl improved the balance a lot over melee with the notable exception of MetaKnight being very overpowered.
In Melee, every competitive match was Only Fox, Final Destination, No Items.

 

[Terminate421]

I don't like anything that prevents the opponent from even having the opportunity to react. I've seen combos in Magic: The Gatering, YuGiOh, PoxNora and various other competitive games that just completely lock out an opponent. While it may a strategy, I believe it's one that detracts from the game and entertainment it's supposed to provide. What was supposed to be a contest is one no longer, and you're effectively just running through a checklist.

Also I don't like people that bandwagon onto whatever they research to be the most powerful strategy or figure out what the top competitive players are doing and just mimic it. I've seen that aspect in DotA, LoL, HoN, Warhammer 40K tabletop, as well as Magic too.

Pokemon has yet to end up like this. I hope it stays this way.

Though there are tiers and such to "guide" people into making good teams. I usually catch them off Guard.

One Scolipede with Jolly Nature and a Swords Dance and Life orb on my side

One Latios, Landorus, and Ferrothorn later, he took my scolipede down.

I did a completely basic sweep set up and facerolled him. It's up to being unpredictable to change up the game.

The words you said....make absolutely no sense to me. Right when you started talking about Jolly Ranchers and Swords Pants I was completely bewildered.

These little factors can completely alter how you use a pokemon, I'll do my best in engrish:

Jolly Nature: Raises Speed by 10%, lowers Special attack by 10%
Swords Dance: Attack that raises my attack by two stages
Life Orb: increases power of attacks by x1.3, at the cost of 1/16 of my pokemon's health for each move used.

Summary: I buffed up my scolipede to make it hit REALLY HARD and REALLY FAST

Scolipede is fast on his own, but without the boosts to attack power, he's kinda lacking in power.

I plan on getting really into making a good team in Pokemon X and Y with EV/IV training (would do it in Black/White/2, however I just have no want to replay those games (I am so sick of that region, wasn't a huge fan of it to begin with).

Quick question about it, I love Glaceon/Lilligant. I will always put them on a team, regardless of whether or not they are shit (just because they are my favorite pokemon in the entire series). However, is it like any game where a good player will win with crappy characters over a average/medicore player does with OP or great characters?

Indeed it does.

Almost any pokemon can be used appropriately for combat regarding scenarios. The thing about my Scolipede situation is that the guy who I was going up against, was completely unprepared for it. In the chat, he was so...bewildered how I took out half of his team with a pokemon he did not even expect for anyone to use.

That is the beauty of competitive pokemon, players can win with skill so long as they think right on how to use the pokemon that they have made. If someone doesn't use their pokemon correctly, they will fail.

I like to use pokemon that I like to, otherwise, what is the point of playing the game? My main team consists of a Trick Room team made up of tanks, unexpectedly, I have a Xatu as my primary Trick Room deliverer, and a very good set up to make sure that he is successful. Because I thought this through, I have a much better chance of winning as opposed to the enemy who looked up a "guide" on how to make a good Tyranitar sweeper.

 

[Terminate421]

.I like the way you think

I usually use crossed tier teams and make absolutely certain that I am as unpredictable as possible. Not many people tend to know that a Dusknoir with Leftovers, Given high Defense and Special Defense, as well as Pain Split, Trick Room, Wil-o-wisp, and shadow punch, has more survivability than a duskclops with Eviolite.

I always play with favorites, sometimes, you just need to use pokemon you like rather than ones that are considered "good".

ALMOST ANY pokemon can be good when given the right scenario.

Here is a nice troll story I have:

When Pokemon Battle Revolution was out, I used to make people MAD, and I mean pissed due to one strategy I like to call the "Sleep then Fus Ro Dah them"

It uses Butterfree, Compound Eyes, Choice Scarf, and as much speed as possible along with a Chatot named Dovahkiin.

First turn:

Butterfree sleep powders the faster, most likely attacking target.
Chatot uses Nasty Plot

If Either one is knocked out, I replace her for Staraptor.

Second Turn:

Butterfree uses Sleep Powder OR Staraptor uses Brave Bird/Close Combat

Chatot uses Hyper Voice or Heat Wave, combined with life orb makes for a massive attack onto both sides, Hyper Voice is also boosted by STAB.

Chatot has a 90 base speed I believe, not many people know that Chatot has a DECENT amount of speed. So after they are down two pokemon in one go, and I have a very powerful cute little chatot, they are pretty much out of options.

 

[Raine_sage]

I don't like anything that prevents the opponent from even having the opportunity to react. I've seen combos in Magic: The Gatering, YuGiOh, PoxNora and various other competitive games that just completely lock out an opponent. While it may a strategy, I believe it's one that detracts from the game and entertainment it's supposed to provide. What was supposed to be a contest is one no longer, and you're effectively just running through a checklist.

Also I don't like people that bandwagon onto whatever they research to be the most powerful strategy or figure out what the top competitive players are doing and just mimic it. I've seen that aspect in DotA, LoL, HoN, Warhammer 40K tabletop, as well as Magic too.

Funny you should mention MtG. I literally just came out of the most rage inducing game I've played on the new Planeswalkers. 4 player FFA, 1 guy playing black pulls out a card that causes any creature that dies that isn't his, to become his. He then immediately plays a card that kills about 10 creatures amongst the other 3 players, then starts pulling out insta-kill spells that even my 19/19 Eldrazi can't survive, basically taking away nearly every creature on the field and giving them to him. Oh and the all become zombies and get counters on them, to make them more powerful.

Next time it's his turn, because he now has so many creatures, they're all zombies, and he already has another card out that gives him half as many more zombies, he's basically unstoppable.

Now, what's even more annoying is I actually have a counter for this situation, All is Dust, which destroys all coloured permanents. Unfortunately, despite being a card that nearly always turns up when I need it, neither of the ones in my deck are anywhere in sight, and nor does the other player who's using the same deck as me seem to have it either. Cue 2 players with nearly full life being killed in the same turn.

And yesterday I encounted one of the new lockdown deck stategies, due to the promo cards now being unlocked, one of which basically taps all your creatures, and somehow has endless flashback, meaning it can be cast every turn without fail so even the deck with the weakest creatures can proceed to constantly attack you until dead, whilst still having the mana left to mill your cards into your graveyard. Not that playing any creatures would help of course, since they all just get tapped immediately.

Sorry, that turned into more of a rant than I expected there...

Oh hey I know which card you're talking about. I have it in my deck. I also have Teysa envoy of ghosts, who has an effect that kills any monster that does direct damage to me and puts a 1/1 spirit token on my side of the field.
Throw in a couple cards that force attacks, and an extortion based deck, and the broken-ness is only mitigated by how bloody long it takes to set up (grave betrayal and teysa are both 7 cost cards and I have the worst luck drawing lands). If I can even pull both to begin with.

In fact I was on the opposite side in the scenario you just posted. Me and my partner were losing badly, other guys have all these overpowered creatures out, it's late in the game and we figure we're pretty much done. Then I pull grave betrayal and he pulled out a blue spell I can't remember the name of which pretty much wipes the field. I'd even ask if you were the same guy but my partner had no zombie card.

On topic, I can't stand games that come down to "how much money you spend determines how well you do". Not even just for online games, card games and the like too. When rares can go for upwards of 20 dollars sometimes tournaments can turn into a game of "who was willing to drop a couple hundred on their deck". I always wither a little inside when I hear someone bragging about the 40 dollar planeswalker they ordered on amazon.

 

[ecoho]

I think my example would have to be the StarCraft 2 Mothership. Especially in Heart of the Swarm.

Dude, you complain about UP Protoss units and and you don't mention the Carrier?

I mean seriously, even in troll games nobody uses it due to its awfulness.

I've used it in games and lemme tell you, just half a dozen of those can be quite the handful if you're not prepared. If you get to late game and you've gotten yourself to the point where you're full blown air-Toss, Carriers can be right bastards to deal with. Air Protoss with some Chargelots can be quite a force to be reckoned with. Though, I will make the argument that Carriers should at least have equal armor rating compared to the Battlecruiser and perhaps a similar build time. I would like to note, however, I do not play ladder and very rarely play against others on-line unless they're known friends.

With the Mothership, you can ONLY have one. And it's supposed to be the ultimate Protoss vessel. As it stands, it's the ultimate Protoss paperweight. And as I mentioned previously, at least the Carrier has some viability. The Mothership doesn't even have that.

sorry but the counter to toss air is Viking + mass marine. its so easy to counter if you scan and scout them as air play for toss takes at least 10 mins to set up right and by that time I have +1 marines and am breaking down their door.

OT: starcraft 1 on the other hand toss air= win. I mean 1 carrier pretty much wins in that game so you cannon up and just build the basterds till you have a nice fleet then stomp the other player when he finally break through your wall....trust me that's an experience I do not want again.

 

[SquidSponge]

One-class wonders. You know, that guy who "plays sniper". Only. So he can quick-scope headshot the pimple on a gnat's arse from the other side of the map while it flies through a keyhole at 35mph. Big frickin' whoop. But can he do anything that actually helps the team? Can he bollocks.

It does seem to be sniper more often than anything else. My disdain applies to any class, but snipers bother me the most, firstly because they are in general vastly more numerous than the one-class wonders for all other classes combined, but secondly because in most of these games the sniper class is largely useless except for taking out the other side's snipers (well that really achieved something, eh?) and stroking one's e-peen. Myself? I play as what the team needs. And yes, my personal performance will be stronger with some classes than others, but by switching classes I can make the team stronger. A concept that seems to to be strangely elusive to most players, even in Team Fortress 2.

Which brings me of another hate of mine - KDR. It's all well and good in a deathmatch game like Quake 3, indeed it's pretty much the point, but it has no place in a game about teamwork and/or objectives, such as Battlefield, TF2 or Planetside 2 (especially PS2, with its persistent world and the unending nature of the conflict). KDR distracts players, discourages teamplay and frequently causes friction (see next paragraph). KDR tracking is an enormous problem in Planetside 2 - you get the "elite" snipers and fighter "aces" who have ridiculous KDR, sometimes over 20, but they don't do a single thing except "farm" cheap & easy kills, which in a persistent world with territory control and (relatively) quick respawns achieves precisely f*ck all. Tanks are better for clearing out enemies, and it's the assault classes and medics and engineers who go in and take points, and that's what gets shit done. And then there's the medics who should be focusing more on revives than kills, and anyone who's done any squad/platoon leading is getting killed frequently by having to spend so much time staring at the map - and these guys are doing perhaps the most helpful tasks of all. And yet having a crappy KDR always bothers me, I feel obliged to at least try to maximise it simply because it is recorded, so I have to constantly tell myself to ignore it and play properly instead.

All of these things were epitomised by this single f*cktard infiltrator (cloaker/sniper class) I once had the displeasure of encountering, who deliberately TKed me (in the middle of a firefight, thus indirectly causing 2-3 additional friendly casualties and almost costing us the objective) because I "stopped his farming/kill streak" by shooting him once (and once only, before realising my mistake and apologising), after he ran at me from the direction of the enemy lines, at the head of an enemy charge, cloaked, one shot away from death. I wish I could remember his name, so I could link his Planetside profile page as an example of everything that is wrong in that game. Suffice it to say I reported that idiot, though I doubt anything came of it - one can only hope Karma will kick him in the balls, preferably hard enough to stop him from ever reproducing.

While we're on the subject I'll say I also share the usual complaints about PvP FPS - spawncamping, exploits, hackers, weapon balance - but they're all fairly obvious I think.

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

However... I will never respect Zero May Cry players. Zero May Cry is a name of a team, which is Dante from Devil May Cry (with some of the best assists for locking the other player down), Vergil (who is a bit broken) and Zero, widely accepted as the most broken character in the game due to his giant hit boxes for attacks and infinite loops. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwXDw0IrvwQ is an example of a typical Zero May Cry match up

I find nothing high level about taking the most broken characters in the game and treating yourself like you're an elite player. Due that shit with Hsein-Ko, and then we'll talk. A lot of people say 'Learn to play' when you get bodied by the team, as a long time fighting game player I get the response. But picking nothing but high tier makes me feel like you can't play, only exploit. So I will always hate on a Zero May Cry choice.

If Zero May Cry is so broken, how come high level tournaments do not feature that team in the top stats?

To answer your question, multiplayer choices I don't like are players who choose to say something is broken and leave the issue at that instead of adapting and overcoming the challenge. People who kick and scream about stuff being broken before its tested on high level play. The thing about Marvel is that EVERYONE is broken and its not about exploiting a system and character set but more about the mentality. Your average Zero May Cry player will get DESTROYED in upper echelon matches because really good players have seen these tactics over and over again that they know the counters

Actually I would say that's half of what UMVC3 is about. Which assists compliment which characters to make them even more Broken Tier.

Does the name ChrisG mean anything to you? MorriDoom is actually unbeatable, unless he lost the last EVO I didn't watch it yet, he wins every tournament ever because if you can play the team well it's near impossible to deal with.

OT: I'm going to skip over taunters because the last time I went into that I got a warning for expressing my feelings slightly too hard man! WHY DOES THE MAN KEEP US DOWN?!

So i'm going to say people who pick Mitsuru in P4A! Woooo! Bullshit range on her normals and specials! You think you're out of range of Mitsuru? NOPE! Think again!

She can literally lock you in the corner and a lot of the GTFO moves in the game will whiff because she's making you block from so far away you just miss entirely.

"Hi, welcome to this week's Champion Spotlight, featuring Mitsuru Kirijo, The Blind Monk. She excels at everything."

and yet, LordKnight, a world class Mitsuru player, lost to Yume's Aigis at Evo 2013. The thing with Mitsuru is that you know the type of range she has and blocking can cause a lot of problems for her as her moves are disadvantageous on block which means that either you have to rapid out into a block or cancel your moves constantly. If you stop attacking, players can start up their own combos and cause problems.

P.S. got a tip, a Mitsuru player will run out of options at some point in the corner and will have to throw, always anticipate it and you have enough time to counter

OT: i'm a novice at fighters so I can't really comment but the thing that makes me lose respect is when a person plays a fighter and just half asses it. they are the people who claim "i don't want to do combos, the game becomes a chore if I try to learn every single combo on a competitive level" if that's the case, don't play. Fighters are like training for a sport; the training is the fun of it.

 

[DarkRyter]

Well, you're in a competitive environment, if a player isn't breaking established rules, they are obliged to choose what will win.

I don't want to dismiss legitimate balancing complaints as "Scrub Whining", but these complaints are a fault of the game's design, not the player's choice.

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

I find it really difficult to take people seriously when they tell me that they're a "competitive player" of any fighting game that's come out since 2008 or so(with the exception of the newer Tekken games). Street Fighter IV and Marvel vs. Capcom 3 in particular have little to no competitive value since they reward the losing player with overpowered gimmick mechanics. The same holds true for any shooter that's on a console. Yes, dear, I'm sure you do think you're very skilled at this game that aims the guns so you don't have to. That's how the game wants you to feel so you'll give it money.

alright, one question out of curiosity; what is the cheap gimmick for the Blazblue series? I've had some hands-on experience with it and there's no poorly optimized auto combo like Persona and the game seems to force you to try to combo as often as possible. In fact the only cheap thing I can find is Hazama's Jayaku Hotenjin (the massive launcher of a kick) which can counter all sort of moves and fatal counters but that has limited range, predicable start-up and is extremely disadvantageous on block.

 

[Darkbladex96]

Milling, milling, milling. If you use a mill deck, i will refuse to play you, and then probably insult your mother as well. For those who don't know, milling is a "strategy" In tcgs that builds your deck solely around making your opponent discard cards from the hand/deck to go for the automatic lose when you run out. this is especially infuriating in Magic: The Gathering, as there's some really bs cards made for doing this. (Mind Funeral and terrorize anyone?)

Also, tiers. I don't care about tiers at all, and i don't need to be reminded that I'm not using the top tier, or that i should be doing a different strategy because "all the pros are doing it." for example, i have never used stealth rock in pokemon, and many that i use don't have good personality types or high speeds, so i avoid "pros" like the plague. I don't give a shit about EV training, and i won't ever think you're the superior player because you farmed lvl 1 ratatas for hours for those extra speed points.

For standard: Elixir of Immortality
For any other format: Any big Eldrazi.

The mill player can now never win... ever. Unless they Leyline of the Void, in which case...

It think RtR or GC dropped Rest in Peace which shuts graveyard all the way down. W1 enchanment that exile anything going to the grave yard. Really good with ally mill

 

[Darkbladex96]

I find it really difficult to take people seriously when they tell me that they're a "competitive player" of any fighting game that's come out since 2008 or so(with the exception of the newer Tekken games). Street Fighter IV and Marvel vs. Capcom 3 in particular have little to no competitive value since they reward the losing player with overpowered gimmick mechanics. The same holds true for any shooter that's on a console. Yes, dear, I'm sure you do think you're very skilled at this game that aims the guns so you don't have to. That's how the game wants you to feel so you'll give it money.

alright, one question out of curiosity; what is the cheap gimmick for the Blazblue series? I've had some hands-on experience with it and there's no poorly optimized auto combo like Persona and the game seems to force you to try to combo as often as possible. In fact the only cheap thing I can find is Hazama's Jayaku Hotenjin (the massive launcher of a kick) which can counter all sort of moves and fatal counters but that has limited range, predicable start-up and is extremely disadvantageous on block.

Arkune. You get cursed you lose.
Mikoto was way too good last game.

 

[Username Redacted]

I find it really difficult to take people seriously when they tell me that they're a "competitive player" of any fighting game that's come out since 2008 or so(with the exception of the newer Tekken games). Street Fighter IV and Marvel vs. Capcom 3 in particular have little to no competitive value since they reward the losing player with overpowered gimmick mechanics. The same holds true for any shooter that's on a console. Yes, dear, I'm sure you do think you're very skilled at this game that aims the guns so you don't have to. That's how the game wants you to feel so you'll give it money.

Ugh...

In regards to SSF4... you really think Ultras are overpowered? Try blocking more. Or avoiding them. Or getting better at the darn game. Marvel? Marvel is inherently broken. But just because you died to an ultra because you weren't blocking doesn't make them OP.

Eh, some Ultras are a bit overpowered. More so they and X-Factor simply represent terribly designed comeback mechanics. They're badly designed because they're systems that improve the more you're losing. Now IMO fighting games shouldn't have comeback mechanics. If you're losing and you don't want to lose you should have to scrap and claw your way back into the game not be handed the means to do so on a silver platter. That's my opinion and also a game design issue (one that most developers seem, of late, to disagree with). That said, for the love of god, I wish that more developers if they're going to insist on including some sort of comeback mechanic would make it more along the lines of what you see in Arc Systems Works' games. Specifically BlazBlue and Persona 4:Arena. In those game you're given moderate means to possibly enable a comeback but nothing is guaranteed and it will still take a lot of work to come back from the brink of defeat to claim victory. I also like what Injustice: Gods Among Us has as far as comeback mechanics as its clash system is one of the more interesting and tactical design choices I've seen in a fighting game in recent memory.

 

[Darkbladex96]

I don't like anything that prevents the opponent from even having the opportunity to react. I've seen combos in Magic: The Gatering, YuGiOh, PoxNora and various other competitive games that just completely lock out an opponent. While it may a strategy, I believe it's one that detracts from the game and entertainment it's supposed to provide. What was supposed to be a contest is one no longer, and you're effectively just running through a checklist.

Also I don't like people that bandwagon onto whatever they research to be the most powerful strategy or figure out what the top competitive players are doing and just mimic it. I've seen that aspect in DotA, LoL, HoN, Warhammer 40K tabletop, as well as Magic too.

Funny you should mention MtG. I literally just came out of the most rage inducing game I've played on the new Planeswalkers. 4 player FFA, 1 guy playing black pulls out a card that causes any creature that dies that isn't his, to become his. He then immediately plays a card that kills about 10 creatures amongst the other 3 players, then starts pulling out insta-kill spells that even my 19/19 Eldrazi can't survive, basically taking away nearly every creature on the field and giving them to him. Oh and the all become zombies and get counters on them, to make them more powerful.

Next time it's his turn, because he now has so many creatures, they're all zombies, and he already has another card out that gives him half as many more zombies, he's basically unstoppable.

Now, what's even more annoying is I actually have a counter for this situation, All is Dust, which destroys all coloured permanents. Unfortunately, despite being a card that nearly always turns up when I need it, neither of the ones in my deck are anywhere in sight, and nor does the other player who's using the same deck as me seem to have it either. Cue 2 players with nearly full life being killed in the same turn.

And yesterday I encounted one of the new lockdown deck stategies, due to the promo cards now being unlocked, one of which basically taps all your creatures, and somehow has endless flashback, meaning it can be cast every turn without fail so even the deck with the weakest creatures can proceed to constantly attack you until dead, whilst still having the mana left to mill your cards into your graveyard. Not that playing any creatures would help of course, since they all just get tapped immediately.

Sorry, that turned into more of a rant than I expected there...

Thats fair. Endless Ranks of the Damned doubles your zombies every upkeep but its a 4 drop. by that point someone should checking him. Its a dead card if you keep him down. Those other two are win cons. Every multiplayer deck should have some heavy win cons. That board wipe was probably 5+ mana.

All i play is grixis zombies. Just ruin the decks momentum and it over.

THRAXIMUDAR FTW!!!