Convicted rapist wins his case to be moved into a womens prison.

[JanatUrlich]

Then I refue to look at you as a man. Real men arent ignorant fucks.

My only problem is the public paying for it.

So I'm ignorant because I dont think thats right?
I dont understand how society became so stupid and backwards, to where the guy who thinks its stupid for a dude to cut his penis off and act like a woman, is the ignorant one.

Hey hey hey, why are you changing my quote? I didn't say that

 

[JanatUrlich]

Then I refue to look at you as a man. Real men arent ignorant fucks.

My only problem is the public paying for it.

So I'm ignorant because I dont think thats right?
I dont understand how society became so stupid and backwards, to where the guy who thinks its stupid for a dude to cut his penis off and act like a woman, is the ignorant one.

Hey hey hey, why are you changing my quote? I didn't say that.

 

[Flipscore]

I feel like I remember something from my childhood. A phrase I heard a lot. Something like two wrongs don't make a right. Yeah, that's it.

Okay, so the guy's a bad man. He's a rapist, he's a murderer. That's why he's in prison. The bad things he's done don't give you the right to do the same thing. Multiple people in this thread are calling for this man to be raped and murdered (as his victim was) like there's no problem with it. The fact that he did it doesn't mean others should do it and people of rational mind shouldn't be calling for his death in the streets.

People actually calling for his death. People claiming they want to kill him. Go ahead and do it and have fun in Prison. At least you think justice was served while you rot away. Instead, you can just grant this jerk an operation (which isn't that expensive) and isolate him (so he's alone for the rest of his life) for $80,000? Seems like a deal for the "murder him" crowd to me.

We're not animals.

Edit: ShadowKatt said this: "Maybe I should go to jail. Roof over my head, three meals a day, no rent, free utilities, and all my needs catered to. Why the hell should I work a full week, come home and take care of a house, a car, and live a broke life?"

And all you'd have to give up is freedom, safety, a family, trust, and security.

 

[bjj hero]

I agree with the judges decision 100%

This person obviously has very deepseated gender issues and leaving them in a male prison will only aggravate these problems. The sex change in the female prison may help them be rehabilitated into society which is the obvious goal of all prisons

Thats great until you realise he is a risk to women, so you put him in a female only establishment. You may feel different if you, your sister/mother/room mate was in the same establishment.

It will be murder when he finishes his custody and is on licence. He will want to use public toilets, changing rooms, probably go to an all female hostel with far less security than in prison. this man is a time bomb. Someone is going to get hurt.

 

[Epitome]

You know at a certain point in history saying the world was round or not in the center of the universe also seemed counter intuitive to most people.

What does it mean to be a boy? Is it your genitals? Is it your hormones? What do these two things entail? Are you supposed to work, are you supposed to like sports, should you scratch your groin?

What is it to be a girl?

Sexually it breaks down to the biology. But you aren't asking me about sex. You are asking me about gender.

Gender roles are fluid. Even in the US gender roles have changed since my parents (and to a lesser extent I) have been alive. In my Father's early years women were expected to stay at home and most advertisements towards 'house products' were geared towards them. Men were supposed to be rugged and be in the military.

However even the slowest person should hopefully notice how subjective the entire thing is.

Keep in mind your 'sick' therapy is not unlike what religious groups used to do to nonbelievers. Parents were generally burned alive if they didn't convert and their children were stolen and 're-educated'.

Gender is at its core entirely a lifestyle choice and not much more.

I scratch my groin.....

No seriously while I feel as though i should be insulted on some level, your debate is very good food for thought. I agree that there is a seperation between sex and gender but feel that there is also a strong association between the two . Born with a penis denotes you as a man in my book and i would disagree that its a lifestlye choice so long as the two are not completely and practically interchangable. Its not like changing a shirt you dont like, gender to my mind is not something you get to decide between when you wake up in the morning.

I would agree that the experience is subjective but not in its entirity. What gender you are has a large effect on all the people you come into contact with. Imagine your spouse decided she wanted to be a he now and you could learn to live with it or she will take the kids and leave?

 

[Dioxide20]

Hell no. Catering to prisoners is just a waste of money.

Exactly. They had their chance and lost it.

 

[Sparrow]

I would prescribe him a .20 cal to the forehead.

Apply directly three times per day for maximum results.

 

[theultimateend]

You know at a certain point in history saying the world was round or not in the center of the universe also seemed counter intuitive to most people.

What does it mean to be a boy? Is it your genitals? Is it your hormones? What do these two things entail? Are you supposed to work, are you supposed to like sports, should you scratch your groin?

What is it to be a girl?

Sexually it breaks down to the biology. But you aren't asking me about sex. You are asking me about gender.

Gender roles are fluid. Even in the US gender roles have changed since my parents (and to a lesser extent I) have been alive. In my Father's early years women were expected to stay at home and most advertisements towards 'house products' were geared towards them. Men were supposed to be rugged and be in the military.

However even the slowest person should hopefully notice how subjective the entire thing is.

Keep in mind your 'sick' therapy is not unlike what religious groups used to do to nonbelievers. Parents were generally burned alive if they didn't convert and their children were stolen and 're-educated'.

Gender is at its core entirely a lifestyle choice and not much more.

I scratch my groin.....

No seriously while I feel as though i should be insulted on some level, your debate is very good food for thought. I agree that there is a seperation between sex and gender but feel that there is also a strong association between the two . Born with a penis denotes you as a man in my book and i would disagree that its a lifestlye choice so long as the two are not completely and practically interchangable. Its not like changing a shirt you dont like, gender to my mind is not something you get to decide between when you wake up in the morning.

I would agree that the experience is subjective but not in its entirity. What gender you are has a large effect on all the people you come into contact with. Imagine your spouse decided she wanted to be a he now and you could learn to live with it or she will take the kids and leave?

Having a penis and acting like a man are two entirely different things. One you are given and the other you choose.

In some countries the men are the ones who do all the laundry and housework. In some nations women are not allowed to speak. Various nations have different roles that beyond the biological level do not overlap.

The essential similarities are that men have generally more muscle growth and tend to have jobs that relate to those the easiest. Women have the ability to give birth and feed children through their body and thusly tend to be expected to be with the child at early times. But even this can be changed. In some countries both the man and the women get Maternity leave so that they can be with their child.

I have seen no study that shows a strong connection. People tend to assume since little boys grab toy cars and GI Joes that they are predestined to do so. They forget that the child spends its entire youth examining its parents and the surroundings to understand what is necessary.

Infants show no preference between 'male' and 'female' toys. Because they haven't been 'taught' which is proper. Even now the lines are blurring with each year in the US as more and more things become ambiguous. The reason simply being that there has been no repeatable case study where a predestined set of gender roles was found. It is all entirely culturally driven.

Likewise most people don't change gender "evernight" or "overnight", their sexual identity is decided (usually) around the time they hit puberty. Their body starts setting off all the biological cues and depending on what is going on they find themselves being interested in boys, or girls, feeling like a boy, or feeling like a girl.

The first two are pretty much set in stone, they have nothing to do with your culture, if you like boys you like boys. You can go to 'training' to fix that but most people that do end up being caught still having sex with boys (which is entirely fine).

The latter two are cultural. People 'feel like girls' because their desires and interests are denoted in their culture as 'feminine'. Same with 'feeling like boys'.

I think that the major problem here for you is differentiating between the biological and the sociological differences of someones sex. Biologically you are a man because you have a penis, but acting 'male' is different. There is nothing about your penis that decides if you'll like sports, carpentry, dolls, cooking, guns, or grits (mmm grits).

As for your latter situation. I have no strong sexual attraction to men, likewise I'm not repulsed by them. When I was in Japan I used the public baths quite often, it was convenient and the water was always hot enough to melt the flesh from a whale. There were dozens of men there and not one looked around scared trying to sneak their genitals out of sight as fast as possible. (However in America I literally have heard people say things like "OH JESUS!" when they catch a glimpse of a penis in a gym shower or locker room.)

So while I wouldn't be repulsed by whoever I am with I would likewise not be sexually attracted to them. I would find it highly unfortunate that they decided they had to leave (and were taking the kids) but I would also understand that I apparently had not understood who they were as well as I thought I did. It happens. People date folks and find that they weren't as compatible as they thought they were.

Also you missed a bit in that one sentence "What gender you are has a large effect on all the people you come into contact with and is entirely dependent on your cultural location."

The reaction that a group of Cubans have with me will be different than a group of Americans than a group of Kenyans than a group of Iranians than a group of Japanese or Chinese or even New Zealanders (assuming in each case these are Nationals of said nation). I may notice some subtle underlying similarities such as none of them being sexually attracted to me (which would be a biological trait) however the rest of our experiences will likely be much different even discounting language barriers.

 

[Julianking93]

I've lost all faith in mankind.

They should have given him a sex change, [b/]then[/b] put him in a men's prison

 

[cartzo]

this case disgusts me, the man/woman has raped 1 person and murdered another, in my opinion he has no right to be moved let alone a right to a sex change while he's in prison. what else disgusts me is that this is the sort of case that human rights lawyers love, the human rights act has been getting alot of bad press because of these assholes twisting and manipulating it to meet the wants of almost anyone.

like i said before he has raped and murdered, he deserves only the most basic human rights, HE DOES NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO A SEX CHANGE.

 

[Kiutu]

In that logic, then Gays should not be allowed to marry. Because well...if we let men marry men, they may want to marry their dogs next. Now unless you agree with that too, then your thinking is flawed. (ok, either way I would feel there is flawed thinking involved..but I think you know what I mean)

I will go on however. What about infertile women? They could try that too, and they should not be allowed maternity leave, but are still women. However if they find a way to allow trans women (and likely infertile women too obviously) to becoem pregnant, THEN they SHOULD get maternity leave in that case.

You would class infertile and trans women in the same category with regards to childbirth? If the day ever comes when we can completely change a mans body into a womans, womb, hormones and all then i may lessen my stance on the issue. But first it think that research has some pretty strong ethical considerations that start bordering playing God.

For now though the change is superficial. Infertile women are infertile to a natural physiological problem or unfortuate accident. When born they should not be able to bear children, when tran's women are born they should not. Childbirth most definately falls under the Sex issue as reproduction is an entirely physical event. Your sex at birth should decide child bearing capabilitys not your believed gender. to permit trans's to give birth by implanting a womb is alot differant than repairing an infertile womans womb.

lol yes i think i get what you are trying to say about the gay communitys rights but inter-speciesism i think we can both draw a line at I wasnt trying to make a slippery slope arguement however, im saying that we must define a limit to where trans wishes they were a differant sex impinge upon teh rest of society. Taking the gay community as example i have no problem with them marrying or civil partnershiping (well there are some minor issues i have but suffice to say i dont oppose it) but when there is talk of say gay couples adopting children then i have to start questioning aspects of it. The gay community can be as gay as it likes an i will respect that so long as they dont demand to start impinging on my social groups BECAUSE they are gay. I use emphasis there to denote that being gay does not entitle you to force others to change or even accept you.

Gays and trans want to be accepted. You accept gays for the most part, but not trans based on your thinking. People oppose gay couples adopting...under the foolish pretense that it will ruin their lives (since being na orphan TOTALLY doesnt ruin lives...) but then that means ANY flawed couples should not be allowed to adopt. Only 'perfect couples' would eb allowed and those dont truly exist.

I...cant hate you. You are a nice, and respectable guy...but I certainly hate alot of your views, and I do mean hate. My problem ultimatly, is trans men and women want to feel right, and part of that is being viewed by others as what they feel is them. You are one who denies them that, which is why I despise that view of yours so.

 

[Da pyro man 999]

This is a outrage, he must be punished

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

*sneezes on this discussion*

 

[The_ModeRazor]

I think a hate-fueled power kick to his groin would be far better.
Seriously, after all he done he gets to have a sex change? What the fuck?
I find this rather disgusting.

 

[Phyroxis]

Fantastic. We've got some real gems in the judicial system, don't we?

"Infringing on his autonomy?" The dudes a fkin criminal! He gave up his autonomy the moment he shanked someone... lol.

 

[Quantupus]

leave him in male prison so he'll know what he did to the person he raped.

^This^
He still has a 'Y' chromosome so he's still a guy. I don't care if you do chop your penis off and give yourself breast implants, your not a woman, your a guy with boobs and no penis.
I don't care if you do this to yourself, but as far as the law should be concerned, your a guy.

 

[notyouraveragejoe]

Hell no. Catering to prisoners is just a waste of money.

Exactly. They're prisoners they should be completely removed from society and have no perks. So keep him locked up in the mens prison.

 

[jinze]

as i am english home of the most infamous murderous bastards of all time i say if u bring murders and rapists here they will most likely be killed the moment the step of the boat

 

[DanielPowell33]

It seems like theres somthing new on here everyday that makes me loose more and more faith in humanity.

Its like the only sane people in the world are on The Escapist

 

[Epitome]

Having a penis and acting like a man are two entirely different things. One you are given and the other you choose.

In some countries the men are the ones who do all the laundry and housework. In some nations women are not allowed to speak. Various nations have different roles that beyond the biological level do not overlap.

The essential similarities are that men have generally more muscle growth and tend to have jobs that relate to those the easiest. Women have the ability to give birth and feed children through their body and thusly tend to be expected to be with the child at early times. But even this can be changed. In some countries both the man and the women get Maternity leave so that they can be with their child.

I have seen no study that shows a strong connection. People tend to assume since little boys grab toy cars and GI Joes that they are predestined to do so. They forget that the child spends its entire youth examining its parents and the surroundings to understand what is necessary.

Infants show no preference between 'male' and 'female' toys. Because they haven't been 'taught' which is proper. Even now the lines are blurring with each year in the US as more and more things become ambiguous. The reason simply being that there has been no repeatable case study where a predestined set of gender roles was found. It is all entirely culturally driven.

Likewise most people don't change gender "evernight" or "overnight", their sexual identity is decided (usually) around the time they hit puberty. Their body starts setting off all the biological cues and depending on what is going on they find themselves being interested in boys, or girls, feeling like a boy, or feeling like a girl.

The first two are pretty much set in stone, they have nothing to do with your culture, if you like boys you like boys. You can go to 'training' to fix that but most people that do end up being caught still having sex with boys (which is entirely fine).

The latter two are cultural. People 'feel like girls' because their desires and interests are denoted in their culture as 'feminine'. Same with 'feeling like boys'.

I think that the major problem here for you is differentiating between the biological and the sociological differences of someones sex. Biologically you are a man because you have a penis, but acting 'male' is different. There is nothing about your penis that decides if you'll like sports, carpentry, dolls, cooking, guns, or grits (mmm grits).

As for your latter situation. I have no strong sexual attraction to men, likewise I'm not repulsed by them. When I was in Japan I used the public baths quite often, it was convenient and the water was always hot enough to melt the flesh from a whale. There were dozens of men there and not one looked around scared trying to sneak their genitals out of sight as fast as possible. (However in America I literally have heard people say things like "OH JESUS!" when they catch a glimpse of a penis in a gym shower or locker room.)

So while I wouldn't be repulsed by whoever I am with I would likewise not be sexually attracted to them. I would find it highly unfortunate that they decided they had to leave (and were taking the kids) but I would also understand that I apparently had not understood who they were as well as I thought I did. It happens. People date folks and find that they weren't as compatible as they thought they were.

Also you missed a bit in that one sentence "What gender you are has a large effect on all the people you come into contact with and is entirely dependent on your cultural location."

The reaction that a group of Cubans have with me will be different than a group of Americans than a group of Kenyans than a group of Iranians than a group of Japanese or Chinese or even New Zealanders (assuming in each case these are Nationals of said nation). I may notice some subtle underlying similarities such as none of them being sexually attracted to me (which would be a biological trait) however the rest of our experiences will likely be much different even discounting language barriers.

I have no trouble distingushing between the physiological and the sociological boundaries between the sexes its the degree to which the line can/should be blurred I contest. Men who want to wear make up? KISS were awesome, men who want to play with dolls thats okay with me to. Men who want to implant a womb and bear children i start questioning the logic behind. Like i said the final example there doesnt matter so much yet as we havent started doing this on any sort of appreciable scale yet but we are working ever towards it and never stopping to ask is it a good idea.

I respect culural differences as much as I should, there are of course cultures which offend me but thats not for me to tell them to change. But like I said before currently the choice is superficial, if say trans-woman meets a man who likes girls. That man has a number of expectations such as the ability to bear children with this woman and that at no point could she best him in a "how high can you piss" contest. If trans-woman now feels completely changed and decides that she is now and always was a woman and does not tell teh man then her gender is having a serious impact reguardless of culture. And while you are right that each culture treats genders differantly there is no country which treats the genders as identical so an impact is still made regarrdless of location in the world. I promise you a man in the baths of Japan would still be unwelcome if he came back next week as a woman, Well maybe not unwelcome but you see what I mean.