CRACKED: "6 Sexist Video Game Problems Even Bigger Than the Breasts"

[Imre Csete]

On the one hand, sexism is something gaming needs to come to terms with.

The real thing that bothers me, that judging by the media reactions, their portrait of sexism in video games comes down as purposeful malevolence from the male dominant developer industry, rather than oblivious insensitivity (which I'm pretty sure is the case here).

It is an issue all right, but they aren't getting any sympathy from me while they keep raging and jumping down developers' throats for every real or imaginary offense. I got really tired of it already by this spring, but it just keeps on piling up...

 

[Hagi]

I thought it was a really good article.
Especially the comparison that men can be whatever, but women are always "the girl".
That shit's been bugging me for quite some time, actually.

Also I would like to add my two cents here, just a personal opinion, not something to take seriously, but I think men who are sexist have very small penises and will never know love the way human beings are meant to experience it and will die alone, unhappy and a life wasted.

Just my opinion.

And this is why the message you're trying to send gets lost so very, very often.

Did you really have to add that second bit? Do you really think that's helping? Seriously, what does it add beyond beyond feeding your own sense of self-importance by expressing your belief that you're better than some people.

See, I agree with your basic point. Gaming is very low on variety, especially on issues like this, and could really use some female protagonists who aren't defined as "the girl". But the only impression your post, and likewise this article, give is not that you really care about that point as well. If you truly did care you'd not have watered down your message to include insults that would only serve to polarize the debate instead of convincing even one person that you just might have a point.

Instead what both your post and this article give as impression is that you're mostly seeking to polarize this debate so that even as you push some to the "other side" you push others to your side, every hero needs a villain. Which in the end leaves only that you apparently don't really care about getting more female protagonists, if you did you'd have used different arguments. Instead you seemingly care about being the hero and seemingly winning this 'debate', if it can be called even that.

 

[Moth_Monk]

So Ellie crying because she sees Joel again (who for all she knew might not even make it) after having faced overwhelming odds is sexist now too.

...

I'm throwing it out there; I just don't get it anymore.

Yeah, I think the problem that people have is only be able to imagine a strong female character being synonymous with the Ice Queen [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IceQueen] trope.

A good example I have of a strong, well written, female character that isn't an ice queen is...

Spoiler: This girl

(First one I could think of off the top of my head)

 

[Moth_Monk]

Just my opinion.

Your opinion is wrong. Adding "just my opinun bro!" doesn't magically make it any more fucking valid or sound. Let me see the evidence you have for your claims and then the conversation can actually go somewhere.

 

[ShipofFools]

Just my opinion.

Your opinion is wrong. Adding "just my opinun bro!" doesn't magically make it any more fucking valid or sound. Let me see the evidence you have for your claims and then the conversation can actually go somewhere.

"Your opinion is wrong"

Heheheheh. Just voicing my opinion first, and then being a fucking evil git for fun and profit.
Sorry

And this is why the message you're trying to send gets lost so very, very often.

Did you really have to add that second bit? Do you really think that's helping? Seriously, what does it add beyond beyond feeding your own sense of self-importance by expressing your belief that you're better than some people.

See, I agree with your basic point. Gaming is very low on variety, especially on issues like this, and could really use some female protagonists who aren't defined as "the girl". But the only impression your post, and likewise this article, give is not that you really care about that point as well. If you truly did care you'd not have watered down your message to include insults that would only serve to polarize the debate instead of convincing even one person that you just might have a point.

Instead what both your post and this article give as impression is that you're mostly seeking to polarize this debate so that even as you push some to the "other side" you push others to your side, every hero needs a villain. Which in the end leaves only that you apparently don't really care about getting more female protagonists, if you did you'd have used different arguments. Instead you seemingly care about being the hero and seemingly winning this 'debate', if it can be called even that.

I don't want to win this debate. I don't think I can win this debate.
Just saying what I feel, that is all.

And I never feel like the hero. I'm just a crazy person throwing rocks at a hornet's nest.

 

[Moth_Monk]

Just my opinion.

Your opinion is wrong. Adding "just my opinun bro!" doesn't magically make it any more fucking valid or sound. Let me see the evidence you have for your claims and then the conversation can actually go somewhere.

"Your opinion is wrong"

Heheheheh.
How can I prove to you that it's all bullshit in the end? I almost died twice, and had that same movie play in front of my eyes. I believe in that stuff, but have no way to prove it.

Opinions can be wrong. If I said "In my opinion, the Earth is flat" That would be fucking wrong! If you are going to make claims about the penis sizes of people and their capacity to feel love then you had better have evidence. (Scientific studies?) If you don't have any evidence, kindly stfu and stop wasting everyone's time. Just because you are able to make something up doesn't mean that you ought too.

 

[Moth_Monk]

I am noticing a trend.

• Person A: News about something relating to women. Use the word bandwagon. Be as dismissive as possible. Laugh. Pretend to ask for opinions.
  
  Person B: Bring up the same arguments that have been said over and over and over and over.
  
  Person A: Bandwagon. Dismissive. Don't care. Bandwagon. Laugh. Bandwagon.
  
  Repeat thread until... forever.

It's pretty clear almost no one replying to these threads is interested in talking to anyone. It's pretty clear they are simply interested in flexing and shouting their words like it's a Youtube comment. I don't remember ever actually seeing a real discussion wherein ideas are exchanged and thoughts pondered. Questions are loaded. Minds are made. Conversation is a trap.

What do you think constitutes a constructive conversation? (Also why should every thread have some purpose or progressive end goal? A platform for people to say what they want about the topic is surely just as legitimate a use as any other?)

 

[ShipofFools]

Just my opinion.

Your opinion is wrong. Adding "just my opinun bro!" doesn't magically make it any more fucking valid or sound. Let me see the evidence you have for your claims and then the conversation can actually go somewhere.

"Your opinion is wrong"

Heheheheh.
How can I prove to you that it's all bullshit in the end? I almost died twice, and had that same movie play in front of my eyes. I believe in that stuff, but have no way to prove it.

Opinions can be wrong. If I said "In my opinion, the Earth is flat" That would be fucking wrong! If you are going to make claims about the penis sizes of people and their capacity to feel love then you had better have evidence. (Scientific studies?) If you don't have any evidence, kindly stfu and stop wasting everyone's time. Just because you are able to make something up doesn't mean that you ought too.

That's not the same, man. Your example is about the nature of reality, but my opinion was more an expression of loathing then anything else.
Every time on the Escapist there's this same debate, going on and on and on, with the same types of arguments, every damn time.
We're not getting anywhere like this. Some people really want to be the change they want to see in the world, and other people have tiny (Metaphorical) penises and will live unfulfilled lives.
Nothing we can do about it, except ridicule.

 

[Vegosiux]

That's not the same, man. Your example is about the nature of reality, but my opinion was more an expression of loathing then anything else.

In that case, you cast your net rather wide...because...

We're not getting anywhere like this. Some people really want to be the change they want to see in the world, and other people have tiny (Metaphorical) penises and will live unfulfilled lives.

How is this not sexist? It implies that "wanting to be the change they want to be in the world", metaphorically, implies a male attribute, and being petty and unfulfilled implies lack thereof (or a smaller one). Even if it's metaphorical, it's still a male trait. So, in order to bring the progress or at least discuss things properly, one has to be, metaphorically, a well-endowed male?

Nothing we can do about it, except ridicule.

From a purely practical point of view, though, what does that accomplish? I'm one of those people who hate wasted effort and stuff.

 

[Casual Shinji]

So Ellie crying because she sees Joel again (who for all she knew might not even make it) after having faced overwhelming odds is sexist now too.

...

I'm throwing it out there; I just don't get it anymore.

Yeah, I think the problem that people have is only be able to imagine a strong female character being synonymous with the Ice Queen [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IceQueen] trope.

A good example I have of a strong, well written, female character that isn't an ice queen is...

Spoiler: This girl

(First one I could think of off the top of my head)

I can still see her legs though, and she wears a skirt and boots that are obviously designed with a woman in mind. I'm sorry, that's still sexist.

Not untill every character is an emotionless, featureless grey entity shall we achieve gender equality in games.

 

[Yuuki]

That article is a brilliant example of the phrase "if you look hard enough for sexism, you will find it". Some feminists can even find sexism/misogyny in a glass of water, it's a rather remarkable ability of theirs. I won't name names, but I'm sure most of us know at least one

Gaming has an issue with what some perceive as sexism, along with a plethora of other issues. I don't know any developer who has intentionally expressed their hatred for women, the very thought sounds absurd if you think about it.

No, most of the noise is coming from a vocal minority of people who are ranting/unhappy about TRENDS - yes, trends. Patterns that develop over a huge scale and have absolutely nobody in particular to blame for their existence. So it's easy to see why people blame/criticize trends...since they're not pointing fingers at anyone in particular, they don't have to face any consequences. It's like criticizing the seas for being salty. Some people make a living out of it

 

[The Ubermensch]

I've had an interesting relationship with Feminism, which is what this is, second wave feminism. I wish the third wave feminist would stop calling what they're doing feminism, and call it egalitarianism or something.

Anyway, back to me, I made a graph showing my state of mind growing up in an environment saturated by feminist propaganda between the age of about 13 to 23. Some of the peaks are meant to be a bit further back, But I made this in like 5 minutes.

The green line shows the feminist propaganda I've been exposed to. The Red line shows how much I care, you'll notice it is now in the negative because I've been saturated with said propaganda that much (And the pink line) that I fucking hate the movement and everything related to it, to the point where it might actually be having the opposite of the intended effect. The pink line is a little more complicated, it really represents my self loathing. For the longest time I accepted that there was something wrong with me, the peak should really be behind the red lines peak. The blue line represents my identity as a heterosexual male, you can see it has recovered, but not completely; Any hole is a goal. The Blood red line shows how ready I am to initiate gene modification practices to give me both working sexual organs and show everyone how it's done.

I think what's getting lost in translation with these feminist arguments, particularly within the gaming community, is that the majority of males that these people are preaching to aren't in the demographic that caused the strife. Your average male gamer who reads Cracked or the Escapist is about 22 years old and white, and has been blamed for every single civil rights violation, racist, misogynistic, and Environment damaging act that their parents did, while they look up at the glass ceiling that their parents occupy in the super saturated job market, all the while been told that they are useless if they don't have a job and/or live with their parents and constantly reminded to check their privilege levels THE MOMENT the 18-28 y/o white male tries to make the kind of argument I just made.

"We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no great war... No great depression. Our great war's a spiritual war. Our great depression is our lives. - We're a generation of men raised by women. I'm wondering if another woman Is really the answer we need."

 

[Phrozenflame500]

RIP The Escapist Forums Cracked you used to be funny but now all you talk about is social justice.

6,5 and 3 are more cultural issues, and it seems a bit disingenuous to limit these just to video games (i.e. sexualization of violence, the "Damsel in Distress" are all common tropes in other media).

I agree with 4 (fuck Other M), and 1 and 2 although 1 is more a problem with the whinyness of the gaming community then actual games.

 

[The Ubermensch]

RIP The Escapist Forums Cracked you used to be funny but now all you talk about is social justice.

6,5 and 3 are more cultural issues, and it seems a bit disingenuous to limit these just to video games (i.e. sexualization of violence, the "Damsel in Distress" are all common tropes in other media).

I agree with 4 (fuck Other M), and 1 and 2 although 1 is more a problem with the whinyness of the gaming community then actual games.

I maintain that Ellie's and Joels relationship was critical of the traditional relationship. Although in saying that; It's not really acceptable to expect a teenager, Male or Female, to shoulder the responsibility of the future of the whole fucking world now is it?

IS IT?

And I maintain that Zelda in the post 64 era is not sexist. In Ocarina you have Zelda, who is not a damsel in distress for the entire game, which feminism would have you believe. She's said to be the embodiment of Wisdom to Links Courage to Ganondorfs Power. So you can make the argument the Zelda isn't courageous, but that kind of goes down the drain when you realise that Navi was there the whole time. And I loved Navi okay, I don't care what anyone says. Tears of joy were shed when she said "Fuck this Ganon guy, I'm with you 100% Link-kun".

Zelda in Twilight Princess sacrifices herself by the way, for Minda, who, I don't know what she is but she's not a helpless female character. At the worst there is a spectrum of female characters in Zelda

And number 3? If you cut off a guys dick and you're a woman you go on a talk show circuit, if you forcibly ripped out a woman's ovaries and you're a man you're a war criminal in need of torture. I'm not saying that rape is good, I'm saying that damage to my equipment is both painful and terrifying, and it's been a popular culture thing since the three stooges. You know, with forgetting all the things wrong with institutionalised penis mutilation, because despite what you think there is a fuck tonne wrong with unnecessary circumcision, as in a 50% loss of nerve endings.

For everything the author has listed there it either is a straw man argument, there is a counter argument, the documented people they have listed are horrible people using the issue to raise their profile, or there is an equally serious cultural problem on the men's side that doesn't get attention.

 

[Phrozenflame500]

And number 3? If you cut off a guys dick and you're a woman you go on a talk show circuit, if you forcibly ripped out a woman's ovaries and you're a man you're a war criminal in need of torture. I'm not saying that rape is good, I'm saying that damage to my equipment is both painful and terrifying, and it's been a popular culture thing since the three stooges. You know, with forgetting all the things wrong with institutionalised penis mutilation, because despite what you think there is a fuck tonne wrong with unnecessary circumcision, as in a 50% loss of nerve endings.

I never understood this argument, because it isn't really an argument. You're agreeing sexualization of violence against women is bad, but then you sting in something about men for some reason. Men's Right is not the opposite of woman's rights, having bad stuff on the men's side doesn't justify bad stuff on the woman's side.

For everything the author has listed there it either is a straw man argument, there is a counter argument

Pet peeve of mine, that isn't what a Strawman Argument is, the author isn't misrepresenting the opposing argument, he's just using faulty evidence for his own argument.

or there is an equally serious cultural problem on the men's side that doesn't get attention.

See above.

Other then that I pretty much agree with everything you said.

 

[K12]

I think the idea that female NPC characters who appear helpless is a sexism issue is a bit unfair, especially using the Last Of Us and Bioshock Infinite.

In most games the majority of NPC characters are there for the player to save/ defeat/ get things from; the problem is that since most protagonists are male it makes this look worse than it is. In buddy team games (e.g. Bioshock Infinite, Half Life 2) you always seem to be playing as the male half even though they probably save you as much as you save them.

I agree that many "save the princess" stories often end up feeling like a treasure hunt where the treasure just happens to have a vagina.

Generally the points were worth making (again) but fairly poor examples chosen.

The problem with most sexism issues is that they are industry wide and specific game examples are meaningless. It is kinda sexist that "boy saves girl" overwhelmingly outnumbers "girl saves boy" but no individual game can be considered sexist for being a case of "boy saves girl". Same with the gender of the protagonist (and/or player characters), the gender of villains and the kind of character traits they have.

 

[tangoprime]

So wait... what you're telling me is, they made a meh article about sexism in games, and didn't have to raise tens of thousands of dollars beforehand to do it?