Critics Ruin Video Games? ?Good!

[Kroxile]

Long Wall of Text

I agree with every word in that wall. It seems the escapist in particular is a hive for liberal douchebags trying to find some ground with which to push their agendas... though I admit I don't really go to other videogame "news" sites so I have no idea if its as bad elsewhere.

 

[Woiminkle]

All the shit we complain about being sexist...really is sexist. It's made by sexist men who think men are animals who are hypnotized by T&A or RAEP or damsels-in-distress or sexy disembodied zombie torsos or are incapable of caring about women except when it's time to fuck them.

Okay guys, I figured it out, we can all go home. Sorry, Anita, we won't need your videos after all.

What you are describing has existed for tens of thousands of years and it is called misogyny. I'm particularly tired of gender roles that force men to look down on themselves and act like utter jerks with no personal dreams or passions. Men believing they are animals and that they must be hypnotized by T&A are ancient stereotypes. These stereotypes were perpetuated by a society dominated by a small group of powerful men who were very comfortable living within that set of arbitrary rules. One of my personal reasons for being into social activism is to tear down those stereotypes, so people stop judging me for what I'm not.

And yet you have always assumed, with your oh so generous benefit of the doubt that games are "made by and designed for aggressively immature idiots". So people shouldn't judge you for what you are not but it's okay for you to judge others based on your own prejudices.
Ever heard of cognitive dissonance?

 

[JudgeGame]

Even if there was a case for the ad containing some "cheap male-centric pandering" what is so wrong with that? Is it really such a crime for a game to appeal largely or even only to a male audience? Not every game is for everybody and there are plenty of other games that you can play if you don't find this particular one appealing or even offensive. Why is it so acceptable to have female only events and spaces yet as soon as men have one there's uproar about it not being inclusive or female friendly.

Because 95% of western culture is directly aimed towards middle-class, white men. You don't see booth boys at game conventions because game conventions are aimed towards men even when almost half of all gamers today are women. But we don't say game conventions are male exclusive. Game conventions are for everybody but if you aren't a white man you will be alienated. I mean, even the booth babes are 90% white and that's being generous. I think I've seen 3 black booth babes in my whole life, the rest are asian booth babes from Japanese companies. Of course you don't need exclusive events for you because anywhere you go you are already the centre of the event, you don't need people to make you feel you aren't a supporting character in your own life.

Videogames have very few diverse protagonists. Practically all protagonists in western videogames are white. You only get to be another race if there are several possible protagonists in a game. Do I even have to argue famale protagonists? I mean, there's already a pretty in-depth analysis concerning why female protagonists have a huge stigma from the whole industry's perspective.

[link]http://penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/games-with-female-heroes-dont-sell-because-publishers-dont-support-them[/link]


PS: Actually those black booth babes weren't even from a game convention but a car show, so officially I've never seen a black booth babe at a game convention.

 

[JudgeGame]

All the shit we complain about being sexist...really is sexist. It's made by sexist men who think men are animals who are hypnotized by T&A or RAEP or damsels-in-distress or sexy disembodied zombie torsos or are incapable of caring about women except when it's time to fuck them.

Okay guys, I figured it out, we can all go home. Sorry, Anita, we won't need your videos after all.

What you are describing has existed for tens of thousands of years and it is called misogyny. I'm particularly tired of gender roles that force men to look down on themselves and act like utter jerks with no personal dreams or passions. Men believing they are animals and that they must be hypnotized by T&A are ancient stereotypes. These stereotypes were perpetuated by a society dominated by a small group of powerful men who were very comfortable living within that set of arbitrary rules. One of my personal reasons for being into social activism is to tear down those stereotypes, so people stop judging me for what I'm not.

And yet you have always assumed, with your oh so generous benefit of the doubt that games are "made by and designed for aggressively immature idiots". So people shouldn't judge you for what you are not but it's okay for you to judge others based on your own prejudices.
Ever heard of cognitive dissonance?

I judge people on their own actions and merits. I didn't assume anything. Prejudice involves assuming stuff.

 

[JudgeGame]

I refuse to waste my time with somebody who doesn't even read a post before responding to it. I want to give you the benefit of the doubt and not assume you intentionally deleted the post I was responding to confuse matters. You should pay attention to a conversation if you are going to participate. I'm sorry but this is just absurd and I won't go along with your charade.

*facepalm*

it was just somone elses interpretation (they were also mistaken in assuming the girl in question was a hooker) a symbolic interpretation is not fact in terms of what the trailer was about or what the creators intended, it has about as much validity as me saying the trailer is symbolic of my little pony,

second you jumped on that and went all "ERMAGERD! THIS BAD!!" on it. Congradulations you compeltly fucking missed the point of fiction

having a "theme/thing/idea" in a work does not automatically mean "I endorse this theme/thing/idea"

[quote/]Some fascist cops killing a woman for her sins isn't awesome. It's sad and scary.

mabye thats how your suposed to feel? if it was the theme its called framing.....,.again just another interpretation [footnote/]I may have gone overboard there as you did say it was the Idea that the theme was "cool" that you oposaed..however you did kind of assume thats that they ment[/footnote]

this kind of overreaction crap is just as bad as sexism/whatever-ism in media, don't stop to consider context or the fact you may have read somthing wrong....OH NO just take somthing and beat it down[/quote]

That's why tone exists. The tone of the scene was very clear.

 

[Woiminkle]

All the shit we complain about being sexist...really is sexist. It's made by sexist men who think men are animals who are hypnotized by T&A or RAEP or damsels-in-distress or sexy disembodied zombie torsos or are incapable of caring about women except when it's time to fuck them.

Okay guys, I figured it out, we can all go home. Sorry, Anita, we won't need your videos after all.

What you are describing has existed for tens of thousands of years and it is called misogyny. I'm particularly tired of gender roles that force men to look down on themselves and act like utter jerks with no personal dreams or passions. Men believing they are animals and that they must be hypnotized by T&A are ancient stereotypes. These stereotypes were perpetuated by a society dominated by a small group of powerful men who were very comfortable living within that set of arbitrary rules. One of my personal reasons for being into social activism is to tear down those stereotypes, so people stop judging me for what I'm not.

And yet you have always assumed, with your oh so generous benefit of the doubt that games are "made by and designed for aggressively immature idiots". So people shouldn't judge you for what you are not but it's okay for you to judge others based on your own prejudices.
Ever heard of cognitive dissonance?

I judge people on their own actions and merits. I didn't assume anything. Prejudice involves assuming stuff.

Go back and read what you posted again. You did in fact say that you always ASSUMED that games are made by and for yada yada all the rest. Go and read your own post and then come back and tell me again how you are now not assuming anything.

EDIT - Just in case you forgot which side of the argument you're on again or what you posted it's on page 3 of this topic, post number 95. Go and read it again.

 

[Woiminkle]

Even if there was a case for the ad containing some "cheap male-centric pandering" what is so wrong with that? Is it really such a crime for a game to appeal largely or even only to a male audience? Not every game is for everybody and there are plenty of other games that you can play if you don't find this particular one appealing or even offensive. Why is it so acceptable to have female only events and spaces yet as soon as men have one there's uproar about it not being inclusive or female friendly.

Because 95% of western culture is directly aimed towards middle-class, white men. You don't see booth boys at game conventions because game conventions are aimed towards men even when almost half of all gamers today are women. But we don't say game conventions are male exclusive. Game conventions are for everybody but if you aren't a white man you will be alienated. I mean, even the booth babes are 90% white and that's being generous. I think I've seen 3 black booth babes in my whole life, the rest are asian booth babes from Japanese companies. Of course you don't need exclusive events for you because anywhere you go you are already the centre of the event, you don't need people to make you feel you aren't a supporting character in your own life.

Videogames have very few diverse protagonists. Practically all protagonists in western videogames are white. You only get to be another race if there are several possible protagonists in a game. Do I even have to argue famale protagonists? I mean, there's already a pretty in-depth analysis concerning why female protagonists have a huge stigma from the whole industry's perspective.

[link]http://penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/games-with-female-heroes-dont-sell-because-publishers-dont-support-them[/link]


PS: Actually those black booth babes weren't even from a game convention but a car show, so officially I've never seen a black booth babe at a game convention.

Wow 95% of western culture is aimed at middle class white men? Where did you pull that made up statistic fr..... oh yeah you made it up. I wasn't suggesting anything about conventions. I didn't even suggest that gaming should be exclusively male and I never brought race into it at all. I merely suggested that it might be okay for one game out of thousands to appeal exclusively to males (of any race, age, physical disability etc). Since it's perfectly okay for game companies to set themselves up to cater exclusively for females, (see the company that makes the nancy drew games) why is it such a problem if another wants to sell one single game exclusively to males?

EDIT I am pretty sure by now you are in fact just trolling, either that or you have some sort of learning disability and in either case now I just feel sorry for you.

 

[Phuctifyno]

Well, I'll agree that the Cyberpunk 2077 trailer is being misjudged (or misused), seeing as there's no indication in the trailer of the woman being a hooker, and to think that the imagery of execution is intended to look awesome is to completely misunderstand cyberpunk as a genre. Making her look like a model and dressing her in almost nothing was unnecessary though, even if they have "story reasons" to back it up.

While the tone of the article is pretty over-reactionary and emotional, I don't judge it too harshly. There are some really good points I think are too often ignored or unknown, particularly involving the industry's interactions with it's consumers. The line between a company simply trying to give it's customers what they want, and attempting to decide for them, is very blurry, especially if a devoted fanbase is involved. It's important to keep a critical mind, even when defending something you love. I'll leave a quote that I feel is somewhat relevant (and has always kinda creeped me out):

"Activists fall into four distinct categories: radicals, opportunists,
idealists, and realists. [The 3-step strategy is to] (1) isolate the radicals;
(2) cultivate the idealists and educate them into becoming realists;
then (3) coopt the realists into agreeing with industry. The realists
should always receive the highest priority in any strategy dealing with a
public policy issue... If your industry can successfully bring about
these relationships, the credibility of the radicals will be lost
and opportunists can be counted on to share in the final policy
solution."

...so that's public relations for ya.

 

[Vault101]

That's why tone exists. The tone of the scene was very clear.

what?.....no really what?

 

[Vault101]

Well, I'll agree that the Cyberpunk 2077 trailer is being misjudged (or misused), seeing as there's no indication in the trailer of the woman being a hooker

its funny the person doing accusations of sexism is the one who (mistakenly) automatically assumes "hooker"

 

[Vault101]

also: power armour is for pussies

ugghh I hate that picture....its the prefect example of stupid-level sexualisation

there is absolutly NO reason for her midriff/cleavage to be uncovered aside from titillating the audience, having it bare marks her not as a charachter (and by extension person) but as a thing to be looked at that exists only for guys veiwing pleasure

somone might say "yeah but we dont need realism" to which I would ask why doesn't master cheif go shirtless?

the only redeemable thing here is that its not a real game or charachter...just somones fantasy

 

[RyQ_TMC]

i wouldn't call this misguided whining

Holy crap, that was just... offensive. To me. As a male. It offended me by assuming this kind of crap will draw my attention.

However, wasn't that review taken down after an outrage? Wasn't the Dead Island torso cancelled after the audience expressed their disapproval? I'm not saying "-isms" don't exist within the gamer public - I don't think anyone in this thread is saying that - but citing that as proof of the violence inherent in the system... I mean, sexism inherent in the medium is like condemning all moviegoers as freaks based on the existence of Cannibal Holocaust.

EDIT: Thinking about it, the review might have been referencing Tera's "bodacious near-naked ladies" advertising, seeing how over the top her act is, but it really sends a creepy vibe down my spine and, regardless of intentions, is just bad.

 

[Woiminkle]

i wouldn't call this misguided whining

Holy crap, that was just... offensive. To me. As a male. It offended me by assuming this kind of crap will draw my attention.

However, wasn't that review taken down after an outrage? Wasn't the Dead Island torso cancelled after the audience expressed their disapproval? I'm not saying "-isms" don't exist within the gamer public - I don't think anyone in this thread is saying that - but citing that as proof of the violence inherent in the system... I mean, sexism inherent in the medium is like condemning all moviegoers as freaks based on the existence of Cannibal Holocaust.

Was that a cheeky holy grail reference? Help help I'm being repressed!

 

[JudgeGame]

All the shit we complain about being sexist...really is sexist. It's made by sexist men who think men are animals who are hypnotized by T&A or RAEP or damsels-in-distress or sexy disembodied zombie torsos or are incapable of caring about women except when it's time to fuck them.

Okay guys, I figured it out, we can all go home. Sorry, Anita, we won't need your videos after all.

What you are describing has existed for tens of thousands of years and it is called misogyny. I'm particularly tired of gender roles that force men to look down on themselves and act like utter jerks with no personal dreams or passions. Men believing they are animals and that they must be hypnotized by T&A are ancient stereotypes. These stereotypes were perpetuated by a society dominated by a small group of powerful men who were very comfortable living within that set of arbitrary rules. One of my personal reasons for being into social activism is to tear down those stereotypes, so people stop judging me for what I'm not.

And yet you have always assumed, with your oh so generous benefit of the doubt that games are "made by and designed for aggressively immature idiots". So people shouldn't judge you for what you are not but it's okay for you to judge others based on your own prejudices.
Ever heard of cognitive dissonance?

I judge people on their own actions and merits. I didn't assume anything. Prejudice involves assuming stuff.

Go back and read what you posted again. You did in fact say that you always ASSUMED that games are made by and for yada yada all the rest. Go and read your own post and then come back and tell me again how you are now not assuming anything.

EDIT - Just in case you forgot which side of the argument you're on again or what you posted it's on page 3 of this topic, post number 95. Go and read it again.

That's called giving the benefit of the doubt or more formally pressumption of innocence and it's one of the founding principles of modern society. In the absence of evidence, instead of attacking gamers I am laying my trust in them. And to be clear, the only assumptions being made here are that games are not designed for would-be murderers and rapists and that games are not made by evil companies who actively support their mindset. What problem do you have with that?

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

@ Judgegame

The woman in the trailer wasn't a hooker or a sex bot. She wasn't half naked. She didn't get executed.

All of the things that make that trailer sexist in your eyes were not actually present. You are mistaken. No amount of argumentative chaff is going to disguise the fact that you saw a pretty woman in a video game trailer and assumed she was a hooker.

 

[JudgeGame]

@ Judgegame

The woman in the trailer wasn't a hooker or a sex bot. She wasn't half naked. She didn't get executed.

All of the things that make that trailer sexist in your eyes were not actually present. You are mistaken. No amount of argumentative chaff is going to disguise the fact that you saw a pretty woman in a video game trailer and assumed she was a hooker.

I wasn't the one who came to that conclusion. You should be talking with somebody else.

 

[Woiminkle]

All the shit we complain about being sexist...really is sexist. It's made by sexist men who think men are animals who are hypnotized by T&A or RAEP or damsels-in-distress or sexy disembodied zombie torsos or are incapable of caring about women except when it's time to fuck them.

Okay guys, I figured it out, we can all go home. Sorry, Anita, we won't need your videos after all.

What you are describing has existed for tens of thousands of years and it is called misogyny. I'm particularly tired of gender roles that force men to look down on themselves and act like utter jerks with no personal dreams or passions. Men believing they are animals and that they must be hypnotized by T&A are ancient stereotypes. These stereotypes were perpetuated by a society dominated by a small group of powerful men who were very comfortable living within that set of arbitrary rules. One of my personal reasons for being into social activism is to tear down those stereotypes, so people stop judging me for what I'm not.

And yet you have always assumed, with your oh so generous benefit of the doubt that games are "made by and designed for aggressively immature idiots". So people shouldn't judge you for what you are not but it's okay for you to judge others based on your own prejudices.
Ever heard of cognitive dissonance?

I judge people on their own actions and merits. I didn't assume anything. Prejudice involves assuming stuff.

Go back and read what you posted again. You did in fact say that you always ASSUMED that games are made by and for yada yada all the rest. Go and read your own post and then come back and tell me again how you are now not assuming anything.

EDIT - Just in case you forgot which side of the argument you're on again or what you posted it's on page 3 of this topic, post number 95. Go and read it again.

That's called giving the benefit of the doubt or more formally pressumption of innocence and it's one of the founding principles of modern society. In the absence of evidence, instead of attacking gamers I am laying my trust in them. And to be clear, the only assumptions being made here are that games are not designed for would-be murderers and rapists and that games are not made by evil companies who actively support their mindset. What problem do you have with that?

I guess it would be the part where assuming gamers are "aggressively immature idiots" somehow on your planet doesn't constitute an attack on gamers but rather some presumption of innocence. Would a better way of "laying your trust" in gamers not be to assume rather than that they are just "aggressively immature idiots" they are simply more forgiving of the flaws of the industry than you because they don't see them as a huge deal to get worked up over? See that then the presumption of innocence stands and your not calling anyone stupid. Which is both an attack and an assumption.

 

[GrimHeaper]

Long Wall of Text

I agree with every word in that wall. It seems the escapist in particular is a hive for liberal douchebags trying to find some ground with which to push their agendas... though I admit I don't really go to other videogame "news" sites so I have no idea if its as bad elsewhere.

Neogaf comes to mind.
If you guys are willing to read long walls of text you should be willing to watch this.
Starts at 5:00 He explains what is going on in a lot of the upcoming game.
Cyber psycho.