Cultural diversity in games

[Dastardly]

snip

Some of it comes down to the "realism" angle. Look at the major wars of the Western world (the main consumers of these types of games). Who has usually been the major player, for better or worse, in these wars? The US. Realistically speaking, if you were to walk out on a battlefield of that war, most of the troops you'd see would be American.

And that reality colors our fictional war scenarios, too. After all, good fiction still has roots in believability. Which is more believable? That someone is trying to take over America, or trying to take over Australia? That America is trying to destroy Russia, or that the Philippines are trying to destroy China?

It's just the flavor of the political landscape at the moment.

 

[Kegsen]

Try selling a game where the idea is to kill a bunch of people who just happen to be american (cause far too many games are based there, period) and unless the main character himself is american, you'll have millions of people rallying against the game because it promotes some kind of anti patriotic theme. and if a game cant sell in the states, its incredibly likely i wont be sold anywhere

Yeah, them pesky asians don`t support the gaming industry at all. Neither do the hordes of europeans, or australians or africans. Small problem with the "industry" I guess, but somehow "patriotic" has gotten confused with "pro USA".

 

[mireko]

You're making me lose faith in the reading ability of the human race. I specifically mentioned Germany in my first post in this thread. I know what I'm saying - even though only Germany has those laws, neighbouring German speaking countries end up with the same games (I know this because I'm Swiss). I'm not sure what games they go for in France & Spain, but I've not seen any sales figures suggesting FPS games sell well outside the UK.

Don't worry, I can read. I just didn't.



It's still inaccurate to say that America (even 'for the most part') is where violent games can (easily) be sold. That's excluding some fairly large markets, like Northern and Eastern Europe, not to mention Asia.

[sub]On the other hand, if you meant that they simply sell more in the US, then sure.[/sub]

 

[Giuglea]

snip

Some of it comes down to the "realism" angle. Look at the major wars of the Western world (the main consumers of these types of games). Who has usually been the major player, for better or worse, in these wars? The US. Realistically speaking, if you were to walk out on a battlefield of that war, most of the troops you'd see would be American.

And that reality colors our fictional war scenarios, too. After all, good fiction still has roots in believability. Which is more believable? That someone is trying to take over America, or trying to take over Australia? That America is trying to destroy Russia, or that the Philippines are trying to destroy China?

It's just the flavor of the political landscape at the moment.

maybe..but this prevents games from reaching their full potential..that is my opinion..you can generate a plausible conflict between any countries..lets say they discover a huge oil deposit on the border between...hmmm sweeden and norway..and they start fighting over it..and the borderline communities are caught in it..u have potential for drama..for tapping in the local culture..for creating a distinct environment..regional style and architecture..maybe even some history..

 

[twistedmic]

I preferred Letters to Iwo Jima, it was better than Flags of our Fathers. Even the title was better, a letter suggests real feeling and emotion, two people communicating privately. Any US flag in any of their films is always the banner of heroes and democracy. Fearlessly defeating tyrants, ultimate good pushing back ultimate evil. I don't buy it.

While I haven't seen either movie, I probably should though, I think the title 'The Flags of our fathers' is a reference to the act of draping a flag over a fallen soldier's casket then, upon burial, present that flag to the surviving family members and not a reference to the power of the American flag.

 

[twistedmic]

You mentioned Homefront. As I understand it Korea invades America... Of all the countires to invade they somehow manage to invade America? It would be more believable if it was, say, North Korea and South Korea. It would make sense. But they want to sell the game to Americans; as I recall one of the dev's saying (paraphrased) "It's great because you can play in the kind of typical suburbs you grew up in instead of battlefields."

So yes, I think it's fair to say that developers sometimes use nationality to sell games.

Isn't Homefront set about twenty years into the future? It is entirely possible that in twenty years time one nation can all but fall apart and another can become a global superpower. If I remember my history books correctly, America wasn't a true superpower in the 1930's, but by the time the '50's rolled around America had become a superpower. And the U.S.S.R. was once a superpower, but collapsed (to some degree at least) and lost that status, again within twenty years time.
And other empires throughout history have collapsed while much smaller countries came to power.
It might not be probable that America will fall and North Korea will rise to superpower status, but it is possible.

 

[Kegsen]

I preferred Letters to Iwo Jima, it was better than Flags of our Fathers. Even the title was better, a letter suggests real feeling and emotion, two people communicating privately. Any US flag in any of their films is always the banner of heroes and democracy. Fearlessly defeating tyrants, ultimate good pushing back ultimate evil. I don't buy it.

While I haven't seen either movie, I probably should though, I think the title 'The Flags of our fathers' is a reference to the act of draping a flag over a fallen soldier's casket then, upon burial, present that flag to the surviving family members and not a reference to the power of the American flag.

Actually the title refers to the authors father being one of the marines planting the flag on Iwo Jima, and thereby making himself (not by choice) into on of the true icons of the second world war. The movie depicts how well that turned out for them all...
On the whole - both movies are well worth seeing. Saw "Flags.." first, and to be honest I think "Letters.." somehow became a better film because of it. Just my 2 currency of choice.

 

[Rayne870]

The reason fps games are flooded with American themes is because they are the nation that throws around their military might the most, so there is more source information to draw from. That coupled with most of the fps producing companies being based out of America their interests will naturally be American.

Given current trends as well no other nation is as aggressive as America, and generally only deploys its military as U.N. operations most of which would be very boring as a game since its peacekeeping operations, until shit really hits the fan then one by one each country (including the US and Canada) backs out of its commitment and leaves faction A to kill off faction B. All of that would make a very futile and depressive game.

So with all that if you want realistic shooters it's American centric. If you want unrealistic then the point is really moot because it doesn't really matter what nation you are fighting in or for if it is something like Homefront. Yes it's based in the US but any country could invade any country, all that changes is the flags and languages.

The only real way to solve any of the lack of international content is to start making up stories for existing international task forces (since they keep those very quiet and off the record), or make up international task forces all together...which puts us back into unrealistic and just changing flags/languages.

I think the above was coherent but I'm not quite sure...

 

[Bocaj2000]

I would love to play games where the main character is ethnic. It makes the game stand out.

Dragon Age, for example, is the only game I can think of where one can play as a homosexual character. Johnny Klebitz is the only playable jewish character I can name. Black characters are solemnly the main playable character, but are relatively common as secondary characters. The prince of Persia is the only middle eastern character I can name that is playable.

etc. etc.

OT: I agree. It is to the point where playing shooters feels like pro-American propaganda.

 

[Giuglea]

The reason fps games are flooded with American themes is because they are the nation that throws around their military might the most, so there is more source information to draw from. That coupled with most of the fps producing companies being based out of America their interests will naturally be American.

Given current trends as well no other nation is as aggressive as America, and generally only deploys its military as U.N. operations most of which would be very boring as a game since its peacekeeping operations, until shit really hits the fan then one by one each country (including the US and Canada) backs out of its commitment and leaves faction A to kill off faction B. All of that would make a very futile and depressive game.

So with all that if you want realistic shooters it's American centric. If you want unrealistic then the point is really moot because it doesn't really matter what nation you are fighting in or for if it is something like Homefront. Yes it's based in the US but any country could invade any country, all that changes is the flags and languages.

The only real way to solve any of the lack of international content is to start making up stories for existing international task forces (since they keep those very quiet and off the record), or make up international task forces all together...which puts us back into unrealistic and just changing flags/languages.

I think the above was coherent but I'm not quite sure...

each country has an army..so you could very well play as an greek defending from a turkish invasion..u have plenty of culture landscape and background to make a successful game..

 

[Giuglea]

I would love to play games where the main character is ethnic. It makes the game stand out.

Dragon Age, for example, is the only game I can think of where one can play as a homosexual character. Johnny Klebitz is the only playable jewish character I can name. Black characters are solemnly the main playable character, but are relatively common as secondary characters. The prince of Persia is the only middle eastern character I can name that is playable.

etc. etc.

OT: I agree. It is to the point where playing shooters where the kinds of game described feels like pro-American propaganda.

i think u can be gay in mass effect toonever tried it though..i had the hots for zero

 

[migo]

You're making me lose faith in the reading ability of the human race. I specifically mentioned Germany in my first post in this thread. I know what I'm saying - even though only Germany has those laws, neighbouring German speaking countries end up with the same games (I know this because I'm Swiss). I'm not sure what games they go for in France & Spain, but I've not seen any sales figures suggesting FPS games sell well outside the UK.

Don't worry, I can read. I just didn't.



It's still inaccurate to say that America (even 'for the most part') is where violent games can (easily) be sold. That's excluding some fairly large markets, like Northern and Eastern Europe, not to mention Asia.

[sub]On the other hand, if you meant that they simply sell more in the US, then sure.[/sub]

Eastern Europe doesn't really have people with money to buy games, same with most of Asia. Western Europe, Oceania and North America are where the money is for buying games (and Japan & Korea, but they're incredibly insular), and Oceania and a good chunk of Western Europe are taken out by the laws.

 

[Rayne870]

The reason fps games are flooded with American themes is because they are the nation that throws around their military might the most, so there is more source information to draw from. That coupled with most of the fps producing companies being based out of America their interests will naturally be American.

Given current trends as well no other nation is as aggressive as America, and generally only deploys its military as U.N. operations most of which would be very boring as a game since its peacekeeping operations, until shit really hits the fan then one by one each country (including the US and Canada) backs out of its commitment and leaves faction A to kill off faction B. All of that would make a very futile and depressive game.

So with all that if you want realistic shooters it's American centric. If you want unrealistic then the point is really moot because it doesn't really matter what nation you are fighting in or for if it is something like Homefront. Yes it's based in the US but any country could invade any country, all that changes is the flags and languages.

The only real way to solve any of the lack of international content is to start making up stories for existing international task forces (since they keep those very quiet and off the record), or make up international task forces all together...which puts us back into unrealistic and just changing flags/languages.

I think the above was coherent but I'm not quite sure...

each country has an army..so you could very well play as an greek defending from a turkish invasion..u have plenty of culture landscape and background to make a successful game..

I am very much aware each country has it's own army. The issues lie with those countries then, do they glorify their army enough to make games about it, do they have development teams/companies with the resources and talent to make a mainstream title for worldwide release to compete with all the American content? Without any of that it's left up to the Americans to tell stories about other countries, which as we know isn't appreciated, look at Mercs 2 vs the Venezuelan government simply because Pandemic wanted to set it in the beautiful country.

In your original post you were also referring to using the history and of other nations, which is a great idea but there isn't much non American modern warfare history to support content. I would love to see something like Greece vs Turkey but can you imagine the real life political fallout/media frenzy that would cause? The media frenzy regarding playable Taliban in MoH is proof enough of that.

Simply stated America is the accepted "goodguys" and everyone else is bad even though there are vast differences between factions such as Al'qaeda and the Taliban.

 

[Cheesepower5]

Why play the same old American shooter when you can play the same thing... but quirkier...

CALL OF DUTY CANADIAN WARFARE.

 

[Giuglea]

The reason fps games are flooded with American themes is because they are the nation that throws around their military might the most, so there is more source information to draw from. That coupled with most of the fps producing companies being based out of America their interests will naturally be American.

Given current trends as well no other nation is as aggressive as America, and generally only deploys its military as U.N. operations most of which would be very boring as a game since its peacekeeping operations, until shit really hits the fan then one by one each country (including the US and Canada) backs out of its commitment and leaves faction A to kill off faction B. All of that would make a very futile and depressive game.

So with all that if you want realistic shooters it's American centric. If you want unrealistic then the point is really moot because it doesn't really matter what nation you are fighting in or for if it is something like Homefront. Yes it's based in the US but any country could invade any country, all that changes is the flags and languages.

The only real way to solve any of the lack of international content is to start making up stories for existing international task forces (since they keep those very quiet and off the record), or make up international task forces all together...which puts us back into unrealistic and just changing flags/languages.

I think the above was coherent but I'm not quite sure...

each country has an army..so you could very well play as an greek defending from a turkish invasion..u have plenty of culture landscape and background to make a successful game..

I am very much aware each country has it's own army. The issues lie with those countries then, do they glorify their army enough to make games about it, do they have development teams/companies with the resources and talent to make a mainstream title for worldwide release to compete with all the American content? Without any of that it's left up to the Americans to tell stories about other countries, which as we know isn't appreciated, look at Mercs 2 vs the Venezuelan government simply because Pandemic wanted to set it in the beautiful country.

In your original post you were also referring to using the history and of other nations, which is a great idea but there isn't much non American modern warfare history to support content. I would love to see something like Greece vs Turkey but can you imagine the real life political fallout/media frenzy that would cause? The media frenzy regarding playable Taliban in MoH is proof enough of that.

Simply stated America is the accepted "goodguys" and everyone else is bad even though there are vast differences between factions such as Al'qaeda and the Taliban.

u say that greece vs turkey would start up a media frenzy??why??nobody gives a fuck when americans are good guys and rusians,koreeans vietnamese etc etc etc are the bad guys?and there are u can play in red alert as iraq or other countries..heck i only played the saboteur becauuse the guy was irish..and the action was in france..gta clone but with one step ahead if u ask me..

 

[Rayne870]

u say that greece vs turkey would start up a media frenzy??why??nobody gives a fuck when americans are good guys and rusians,koreeans vietnamese etc etc etc are the bad guys?and there are u can play in red alert as iraq or other countries..heck i only played the saboteur becauuse the guy was irish..and the action was in france..gta clone but with one step ahead if u ask me..[/quote]

and thats the truth of the world right there!

 

[Rayne870]

Why play the same old American shooter when you can play the same thing... but quirkier...

CALL OF DUTY CANADIAN WARFARE.

Rainbow Six with Canadian flag patches pretty much covers it

 

[the_real_laguna]

I have to agree with you. I am american and while I love my country, I believe that there are a lot of bad things that we have done. I will admit to you first that I am not a huge buff on FPS shooters, I am actually tired of there being so many FPS games that are clones of each other.

As a Sociology major and a person that has a passion for world history, I have learned that there is a lot of things that we can learn from the culture and history of other countries that we cannot get by only looking at our own country.

One of my favorite examples of this is in the book ''All Quiet on the Western Front'', a World War I book. We are often taught to think that everyone in the German army were bad people. This book looked at what most americans would see as ''the enemies point of view''. The main point of this is to show that those soldiers are just like us. My favorite part of the book is when the Paul Baumer (the main character) is hiding in a hole and a soldier from the opposing army ends up in the hole with him. Paul knifes the opposing recruit (I believe he was french) and instantly feels remorse. As he goes through his wallet he sees pictures of the man's family and tries to save his life by watching over him the entire night. If you haven't read this book it is very good.

All that being said, yes I would love to see a game like this told through another cultures point of view. That book really can open your eyes.