Curious about the music industry? Find out stuff.

[BonsaiK]

Hello question again. I like to get a software to make music, one that does the job like Logic and one that works in windows 7, are there any alternatives?

Jesus, I wouldn't even know. I could Google search it, but then so could you. Most pro studios didn't even bother with Vista at all, almost none of them would have Windows 7. Once ProTools releases proper support for Windows 7 that may change, but it will change slowly. Shit is expensive and studio engineers dislike having to upgrade their kit every time a new toy comes out, especially when the old toy did the job just as well. The whole "technology race" thing that computer gamers and computer hobbyists fap over is something that doesn't really happen to quite the same extent in the professional end of the industry (although music software companies sure wish it did).

And in your opinion what is the most popular or accepting form of metal beside metalcore in Australia?

Metalcore isn't viable in the least. I'll cover that more when I answer the next guy. The thing with metal bands in any given city, especially in Australia, that I'm sure you've noticed, is that they're all the fucking same with very minor variations. Therefore, something with a reasonable deviation on the formula sticks out. Look at how much people talk up Alestorm, just because of the pirate gimmick, and that band aren't even really any good at it. Look how rabid Visual Kei fans are, and how quickly Dragonforce ascended in fame once they stopped doing traditional power metal and started nicking sonic ideas from Visual Kei and computer games to add to their sound, and they're far from the best exponents of that particular style as anyone who's seen them live can tell you. If you want to get anywhere in metal, you really need to be doing something different, or at least add a novel twist to what you're doing that nobody else has thought of. Here's one: you're aware of the nerdcore movement in rap, right? Imagine if a metal band did that. A band with an excellent singer where you could clearly understand the words... and naturally an image to match. Given that most nerds are metalheads (these forums certainly prove that) I think something like this would be like money in the bank... if done well... of course no-one has had the balls yet because most metalheads are nothing if not a bunch of slaves to peer-pressure, as Jello Biafra says "no high school gym teacher could make so many people dress alike"... anyway that's just one idea out of many possible ones...

 

[BonsaiK]

Hello. I'm not sure if this question falls specifically into the music industry, but I'll give it a shot anyway.

I have a band with three friends, and we mainly play post-hardcore, alternative rock/metal stuff, kind of like Fightstar, Hurt and Alexisonfire. However, where we live most bands around here are all trying to be the next big tech-metal prodigies, with every band trying to out do each other on a technical level. Don't get me wrong, most of them are quite good, but I've been in a tech-metal band before and it wasn't something I found myself overly enjoying.

Anyway, due to this we find it hard to slot in anywhere. We've had a few gigs and some upcoming, and we've always had a positive response, but due to the fervency and volume of tech-metal and metalcore bands, I feel we have some trouble fitting in, and it's slightly harder to get gigs with other bands when the music is not in the same vein. Do you have any suggestions on how we could pursue gigs and the like in a musical climate like this?

Also, to add an extra question that's slightly more on track with the thread topic (if you don't mind, of course) how is post-hardcore and alternative metal viewed in the industry? I know quite a lot about more consistently 'metal' labels (such as Roadrunner, Century Media, Nuclear Blast, etc) but very little about the labels that support groups such as ours.

Thanks for your help

If you're standing out rather than blending in to the musical population around you, that's a good thing. You want to be that band that divides opinion in the audience, and makes them say "they were that band that weren't like the other bands". Be grateful that no-one else in your town is doing what you're doing, and continue to book gigs with every type of band under the sun that will let you on a stage with them, regardless of musical style. If no-one will book you, consider organising your own shows, and inviting other bands along to play with you (once again regardless of their style, if you can find someone like you that's nice but it's not essential). They will bring their punters with them, so choose bands who you know will pull a crowd. Book your own band in the middle of the shows, not as headliners, to maximise your chances of the crowds who are there to see the other bands also seeing your band, and also to maximise the goodwill of the other bands.

Don't worry about not doing metalcore or that tech-stuff or whatever, trust me, the market is saturated with stuff like that and pretty much all of the metalcore bands who are ever going to get signed already have been, so any new bands coming up in that genre have to compete against a very large body of active artists. That's a nearly impossible task. Needless to say the metalcore bands in your town are mostly not going anywhere because they've missed the boat by at least 5 years.

Anything that isn't metalcore, metal or hardcore, is generally a lot more viable than anything that is. The reason why specialist labels sprung up to deal with metal and hardcore is because no-one else wanted to touch it, most of the labels, even the big ones, are run by die-hard fans of those styles. Even some of those labels have branched out and took on other styles - Roadrunner covers all types of genres these days, even boutique metal labels like Earache have released artists like Ultraviolence who have nothing to do with metal. That's not to say that metal doesn't sell - it does - but other stuff sells more, and also with metal there's such a large glut of bands. Every second band making original music these days is a metal, punk or hardcore band of some description, but those listeners represent a much smaller percentage of the record-buying and concert-going public than that. What I'm getting at here is that the post-[whatever] style you're working in doesn't need a boutique label because that style is more saleable anyway, to the extent that if you're doing a really outstandingly good job of it, there's no reason why a major wouldn't be interested, so bands like that just get signed to whoever. That's why you don't have any sort of "oh this label deals with our sort of thing" idea in your head, it's because to some degree, they all do.

 

[BonsaiK]

snip

Actually it really helped me out especially for the second part. I have to say it was very useful information for me to have. As for the first part, I did a research on the best software and there were too many. I do have a candidate that I'm going to use. I was hoping if there was anyone with different opinion when it comes to windows softwares.

To be honest, they're all pretty much the same. Just do your research enough to know that whatever the program is, that it's got the features that you want. That's all that should matter really. You'll find many people with many different opinions on what package is "best" but none of that matters, really it just comes down to what you like using more and if you can get a result you're happy with. I use ProTools not because I think it's the best thing going, but because it's what all the pro studios have around here, clients are impressed by it, and I know how to get the results I want from it. On the other hand if I'm doing some demo stuff at home or some casual stuff I use Audacity because it's free, and damned if I'm going to shell out a single red cent for something that isn't ProTools just for poking around at home doing demos or whatever. But that's just my personal preference, there are plenty of good programs out there.

 

[BonsaiK]

I love you so much for this thread. =]

Okay, two questions; are there any record labels you would recommend over others, preferably on the basis that they have less demos to wade through; and is this half-way decent sound quality for a demo?

Spoiler

youtube=ppAUygjkPGg

The lot of it is made on a Boss BR-600, as I simply don't have the money for a proper studio session. If I had a band it would be different, but as it stands I'm doing everything from tip to toe on my own. I was wondering if I might be able to send it out when it's done? I know that labels basically carpet their halls with shitty demos like mine, but I still want the chance.

Thanks for replying, if you can.

EDIT : Also, I know the vocals are shit, but that was a few months ago, so I'm a tad better now.

If you really think the vocals are shit and you can do better, you should re-do them. Vocals are incredibly important, by far the most crucial aspect of any demo that you send anywhere.

As far as sound quality goes, a demo is really just to show what you can do. As long as everything is clear and audible, that's what's important, it doesn't have to be absolutely pristine. Let's face it, if you do get a record deal you're probably going to be re-recording the lot with a proper producer anyway. However, be aware that if you're a one-man-band style studio creation that does not play live, a label is extremely unlikely to be interested for this reason alone. Inability to play live means inability to go out and promote your music on tour, inability to sell things like merchandise etc... basically the label would have to really, really want you in order to make an exception to this rule.

All labels are inundated with offers. There really isn't one that is not, and if there was I wouldn't name them because then they'd be cursing me as they then became inundated with stuff and it would be my fault. Best bet is to find a label (or several) that release stuff which is of a similar bent to what you're doing and send your stuff there.

 

[BonsaiK]

I love you so much for this thread. =]

Okay, two questions; are there any record labels you would recommend over others, preferably on the basis that they have less demos to wade through; and is this half-way decent sound quality for a demo?

Spoiler

The lot of it is made on a Boss BR-600, as I simply don't have the money for a proper studio session. If I had a band it would be different, but as it stands I'm doing everything from tip to toe on my own. I was wondering if I might be able to send it out when it's done? I know that labels basically carpet their halls with shitty demos like mine, but I still want the chance.

Thanks for replying, if you can.

EDIT : Also, I know the vocals are shit, but that was a few months ago, so I'm a tad better now.

If you really think the vocals are shit and you can do better, you should re-do them. Vocals are incredibly important, by far the most crucial aspect of any demo that you send anywhere.

As far as sound quality goes, a demo is really just to show what you can do. As long as everything is clear and audible, that's what's important, it doesn't have to be absolutely pristine. Let's face it, if you do get a record deal you're probably going to be re-recording the lot with a proper producer anyway. However, be aware that if you're a one-man-band style studio creation that does not play live, a label is extremely unlikely to be interested for this reason alone. Inability to play live means inability to go out and promote your music on tour, inability to sell things like merchandise etc... basically the label would have to really, really want you in order to make an exception to this rule.

All labels are inundated with offers. There really isn't one that is not, and if there was I wouldn't name them because then they'd be cursing me as they then became inundated with stuff and it would be my fault. Best bet is to find a label (or several) that release stuff which is of a similar bent to what you're doing and send your stuff there.

Okay, thanks for the tips, I'll bear them in mind. Cheers. =]

EDIT : Also, sorry for not providing the actual sound clip, forgot the brackets. It's up there now, if you decide you wanna listen and critique it.

I saw it before. Is it supposed to be like a "medley"? If so, this is a bad way to put together a demo, it can be confusing for the listener. For any demo for label submission, you should also be mindful that if they don't hear something that grabs them in the first ten seconds, they may not listen further, so always put your best foot forward first. Unless you're pitching to a label that specialises in experimental or weird music, don't hit them with sound effects and bleepy stuff first up - hit them with a song. Otherwise, by the time you've "built an atmosphere" they may have taken the CD out of the player, or clicked another link or whatever.

 

[ChaoticKraus]

I'm not really sure, but i think it was either in this thread or the "post your music" one, that you mentioned something about not wanting to work with dance producers because they were insufferable pricks.

Now i might have hallucinated that, but are there any competition/rivalry between different genres in the industry? And if that is the case which genres are the worst and are there any funny/annoying stereotypes?

 

[Blue Musician]

Snip

Have you had previous musical studies? (Conservatory, etc). If so for how much time?

You see I am a current student of the Conservatory of Chihuahua, Mexico, and I am studying piano. That's why I am asking.

 

[BonsaiK]

I'm not really sure, but i think it was either in this thread or the "post your music" one, that you mentioned something about not wanting to work with dance producers because they were insufferable pricks.

Now i might have hallucinated that, but are there any competition/rivalry between different genres in the industry? And if that is the case which genres are the worst and are there any funny/annoying stereotypes?

I can't remember if I mentioned it or not, but it sounds like something I would mention.

There's no real competition at all between different genres in the industry, because different genres tend to appeal to different people so therefore they're not really vying for the attention of the same crowd. People who buy CDs or concert tickets don't typically agonise over decisions like "hmmm... Justin Beiber or Metallica, I can't decide...", you know. Not a lot of crossover there, However, there's quite a bit of competition and rivalry within specific genres. That's to be expected of course, after all it is a marketplace. Two fruit stands in the same marketplace will have rivalry because they're eyeing off the same dollar but a fruit stall and a hardware shop won't have rivalry because they're after different markets, yeah? Rivalry within genres is generally friendly though, at least where I come from it is. I've heard stories of hardcore punk scenes in certain parts of America being very violent but where I live the punks don't like fighting because it interferes with their drinking routine. The exception is rap, but I wouldn't really know about how much the lyrical content translates into actual physical violence because I don't deal heavily in that genre (thank fuck).

Funny/annoying stereotypes? Well, yeah there's plenty of those, but to be honest the musicians who get successful tend to not exhibit the type of stereotypical behaviour you would expect (except in the music videos and on stage) and instead are very professional. It's the failures who tend to think that they need to "fake it till they make it" and thus wander around like a walking stereotype looking very foolish while everyone else laughs behind their backs.

 

[BonsaiK]

Snip

Have you had previous musical studies? (Conservatory, etc). If so for how much time?

You see I am a current student of the Conservatory of Chihuahua, Mexico, and I am studying piano. That's why I am asking.

Yes, I went to the Conservatory where I live, I studied composition and theoretical aspects of music, then I did graduate studies. 5 years total. I also have formal audio engineering qualifications.

I wouldn't say these qualifications are essential, but they do help if you want to teach music if you've got a bit of paper that says you might know what the fuck you're talking about, it does inspire more confidence in the students who are paying for lessons. That's the main thing the University degree is good for. The audio engineering degree is nothing that I couldn't have learned by buying some studio gear and RTFM, but the social environment there was excellent and since networking is very important, it was definitely a good move. I still get work today from connections I made while doing that course.

 

[Ham_authority95]

I'm well aware that musicians don't bring in any money worth noting, and since only a few musicians "make it", they need something to fall back on.

So I want to ask: What is a good day job to have while being a musician?

 

[-Samurai-]

When scouting new talent, how important is the live show compared to the sound of them on a CD?

As a fan, I love live music. I'll go to a show of a band that I dislike simply because they put on a good live show. They can be the most boring band in the world to me on disk, but live, I'll love them(if that makes sense).

 

[thedeathscythe]

1. Is there a genre you don't like or do you have at least a minute interest in all genres? (I find a stick to a few genres but don't really avoid any genre entirely)

2. I recently (let's say a year ago) got into mash ups, and in the last few weeks, I've actually been making my own; do you know where professional DJ's (let's say like Girl Talk or Deadmau5) get their acapellas? At the moment I use a few sites or take a lot of time and work to make my own. I heard they get them directly from the artist/labels. Is this true or do they grind all day like the rest of us to make them? [I've always been curious about how they get theirs, I wasn't really looking to get hook ups]

3. Are radio stations dying? They seem to come and go in my city in 2 years or so, if that long (only about 5 or 6 maybe have stayed alive for more than 10 years). Is this just how it goes, or are iPods and docking bays in cars taking their tolls?

 

[BonsaiK]

I'm well aware that musicians don't bring in any money worth noting, and since only a few musicians "make it", they need something to fall back on.

So I want to ask: What is a good day job to have while being a musician?

It's good to think realistically about this. Some of the most well-known artists still have day jobs, I would list some but I'm sworn to secrecy - however you'd be amazed.

Government jobs are excellent. Usually no weekend work, decent money, and organising leave to go touring isn't too hard. If you've got the skills for it and you can handle leaving your soul at the door it could work out really well. Many semi-pro artists take refuge in this kind of work when not on the road.

Anything else that isn't going to conflict with gigging hours is fine. Or if it does, an understanding employer that doesn't mind giving you unpaid leave at the drop of a hat helps. Various well-known artists do factory work and other fairly brain-off stuff and save their brain for their music. What you want to especially avoid is jobs that tie you up at night every weekend, where the bosses don't give a shit about you, have no idea about musical culture apart from what they see on TV and thus probably won't understand the needs of a musician, like service station attendant, fast food, 24/7 convenience store, a lot of hospitality industry stuff, I'd avoid those jobs. Fine to get you started but once you start gigging those jobs become a liability. The exception is hospitality industry within the music business itself, in which case your employers are more likely to understand.

 

[BonsaiK]

When scouting new talent, how important is the live show compared to the sound of them on a CD?

As a fan, I love live music. I'll go to a show of a band that I dislike simply because they put on a good live show. They can be the most boring band in the world to me on disk, but live, I'll love them(if that makes sense).

Live shows are very important because that's how a band is usually going to make most of their income these days. They're so important that if a band refuses to do live shows their chances of getting signed are minimal for this reason alone. Live shows are the best means of effectively promoting your band in the early stages, and also by far the best place to sell merchandise. Even electronic artists should always make the effort to do some live shows of some description, if it means dragging laptops up there, whatever it takes.

I agree that a band can not really grab me on their records but be a great "live band". I'd put The Cult, Elastica and The Beastie Boys up there as bands who never impressed me hugely with their studio recordings but are so good live that they're almost a different act altogether.

 

[BonsaiK]

1. Is there a genre you don't like or do you have at least a minute interest in all genres? (I find a stick to a few genres but don't really avoid any genre entirely)

2. I recently (let's say a year ago) got into mash ups, and in the last few weeks, I've actually been making my own; do you know where professional DJ's (let's say like Girl Talk or Deadmau5) get their acapellas? At the moment I use a few sites or take a lot of time and work to make my own. I heard they get them directly from the artist/labels. Is this true or do they grind all day like the rest of us to make them? [I've always been curious about how they get theirs, I wasn't really looking to get hook ups]

3. Are radio stations dying? They seem to come and go in my city in 2 years or so, if that long (only about 5 or 6 maybe have stayed alive for more than 10 years). Is this just how it goes, or are iPods and docking bays in cars taking their tolls?

1. I pretty much have time for any genre. There are some sub-genres that the industry is biased against right now, and others which are more in fashion, but the duty of someone like me is not just to look at what's hot right now but what might be hot in the immediate future, and some amazing breakthrough act could come from anywhere, so it pays to have an open mind.

2. Mash-ups are a legal minefield, which is why the most well-known mash-up artists get permission from the original artists and labels, always. While they're doing the asking to get copyright clearances etc they often also ask "so can we get the original vocal takes then?" and if it's someone like Girl Talk then there's no reason I can see why a company would say "yes you can do your mashup but no you can't have an acapella mix to work from", given that extracting an acapella mix and shoving it on a CD for a mash-up artist to work with is about as easy as studio jobs get, and the result of the mash-up artist may well spur increased interest in the original product. If it's some little guy though they may not bother, or they may even say no to the whole thing. The question is then, do you proceed anyway... and I suppose you could but the problem then becomes that the better you are at it, the more likely you are to get busted...

3. God no, radio is bigger than ever. It's so big now in fact, that in several major cities in the world getting approval for a new radio station is virtually impossible because there just isn't room on the frequency bands to house your broadcast signal. You have to literally wait for some other radio station to fail and then take their spot. Also, radio stations have been embracing live internet streaming, partly as a solution to the aforementioned bandwidth problem, also legally there's a ton less paperwork to get a stream approved than a radio license, so even if actual physical radios in their current form die out, the concept of "live audio feed entertainment" isn't going anywhere. One thing that I guess might be on the wane (slightly) is the influence of commercial radio to steer music taste given that everyone under 40 has YouTube now, but I definitely see this as a good thing.