Curious about the music industry? Find out stuff.

[BonsaiK]

What exactly do you need to do to get signed by a record label?

Also a more specific question. What is a good synth plugin for Logic/Mainstage?

Getting signed: okay, the first thing you need to do is be musically superior. I don't mean technically, I mean in terms of songwriting. Some people just have the gift for it, some have to study it academically in order to "get it", some people have to get someone else to write songs for them (not an ideal option because then you don't get royalties but oh well). I don't care, do whatever it takes.

If you're a band rather than a solo artist, make sure your band members are at least a little bit organised. I don't care how many drugs they do as long as they can show up to their own gigs and studio sessions. Also, make sure that they want this. You don't want to be just about to sign on the dotted line and then someone gets someone pregnant and that screws up the whole ball game.

Okay, so assuming that you/your band is amazing and you're all on the same page, here's the main ways that bands get signed:

* Word of mouth from astoundingly good live performances reaches an A&R person who then goes and sees the artist at a show.

* The artist sends in a demo to a label, who like it.

* The artist knows someone personally who works at a label, and sends in a demo to that person, who makes sure it gets heard, and they like it.

* The artist has no material but is liked by the label because they are a known talent (usually through word of mouth, sometimes through a business referrral), and are groomed by the label.

* The artist figures that the industry sucks and they aren't going to get signed (or don't want to be) so they just release their own stuff anyway and go on self-funded tours, which ends up boosting their profile to the extent that the industry then starts paying attention to them.

As soon as anyone from any label starts offering you something and showing you bits of paper, get a music industry laywer to look the deal over. Very important, do not skip this step.

Synth plugins: I don't use Logic Pro but to be honest, if I wanted synth sounds I wouldn't try to get a virtual desk plugin, I'd cut to the chase and buy an actual synth. I like to keep my sound generators and my machine that's doing all the mixing and DSP separate as much as I can. Let me know what sounds you are looking for.

Thanks for the advice regarding signing with a label, I don't think it would happen soon for my band but I wanted to know in the future if it ever comes to that.

As far as synth plugins go I don't have any budget at all so that's why I haven't run out and bought a Korg/Yamaha/Roland workstation or such. Basically I've been given a Macbook and I've been using my almost toy of a keyboard (basically all I have to work with that is just the keys) as a MIDI controller. People say OSX is the best for that sort of thing, but I also have a gaming rig that is a whole lot better so I don't know what to use. That and I got a copy of Logic pro from my friend so that was a bit of an easier decision for me.

I use mainstage right now for all of my sounds, but the selection is limited. But I'm not really a pro when it comes to mixing up sounds with effects and plugins (I'm pretty sure reverb is all I have down right now). The thing is I can't find any decent thorough documentation or any tutorials online. This has also been a problem with Logic. I'm trying to find some nice plugins and whatnot but I've gotten no luck so far.

The sounds that I'm looking for is basically rich acoustic piano sounds, nice epic string/orchestra/chorus sounds, and a sort of thick synth sort of like this. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5Y923eHrr4]

My band and I are trying to record a demo with a small budget and I wanted to see how far we could go with just the computer before we spend money and buy the bigger and better stuff.

Don't be fooled into thinking that you need the most technologically advanced stuff you can get your hands on. Most dance tracks are actually made with really old equipment. Interview any leading player in the dance music scene, ask him what he uses and he'll start digging out 20 and 30 year old flea market boxes. The piano and orchestral sounds in 15-year old synthesisers are actually pretty damn decent and nobody wants that shit right now, you can score good stuff at garage sales, etc. Fat synth noises go back even earlier, some of the old gear is highly sought after though and hard to get, but there are some very cheap new boxes that emulate the old ones.

Pity I can't really tutor you in this program as I've never used it. But yeah - I despise software plugins, and I don't use Logic Pro, what can I say. You could buy a set of plugins (Google it, tons of companies have stuff) but it'll probably cost you more to buy a set of good plugins than it will to dig up some old gear that can do the same shit anyway.

Yes Macs are common in studios and considered to better than PC for audio mixing by many people. Fuck knows why though, I've never seen the benefit. I've used ProTools setups on Macs that have shat themselves sideways every 30 minutes and PC setups that run fine. I don't think it matters what you use, I think what really matters is what you're comfortable with, and how well you look after the data integrity of what you're using (make system restores, defrag, keep your system lean, that sort of thing). I think people just like Macs because Macs are a little easier to use and most audio engineers have been drawn into the world of computers kind of reluctantly and therefore mess their diapers every time they see a blue screen.

 

[BonsaiK]

-snip-

And yes I do believe there's enough room for everyone. After all Justin Bieber's market isn't the same market that buys Bullet For My Valentine or whatever. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that there's not a lot of crossover there. Why fans of the latter would even care enough about the existence of the former to even comment is something that continually astounds me I think it says more about their personal insecurities than anything about the real world of music.

I like this post. I like it a lot.

OT: I have a question about the future of the music industry.

Is it more likely that Independent labels will get more market-share than the "big 4" within the next 15-30 years?

-snip-

I hope that kind of answers the question... congrats to you if you read that far...

It does actually answer my question.

In fact, the music industry sounds much better off with all the big labels supporting the huge acts.

Well, yeah. That's what big labels have been doing for years and they're quite good at it. Every big label started off small and got big through their ability to promote artists. Some small label wouldn't know what to do with someone like Madonna. It's easy to hate on big labels and they certainly so some very assholish things from time to time, but that's more about the politics of the people involved than the nature of the label itself.

 

[Ham_authority95]

I have a question about getting work as a bassist.

I'm already in two bands, I'm going into jazz band this coming school year, and I'm thinking of studying music in college.

My question is: After highschool/college, all my "training" in my bands, and when I've finally set foot into the real world of music, what do I need to do to have a chance at making money off my instrument?

 

[BonsaiK]

I have a question about getting work as a bassist.

I'm already in two bands, I'm going into jazz band this coming school year, and I'm thinking of studying music in college.

My question is: After highschool/college, all my "training" in my bands, and when I've finally set foot into the real world of music, what do I need to do to have a chance at making money off my instrument?

Becoming a teacher is probably the most reliable way. That's how I pay my bills when my other jobs fall short on the financial side (which is often!). Find out what qualifications you need to teach music in schools, colleges etc in your country. Often a degree in music alone isn't enough, you need education qualifications as well. In Australia you need a Diploma of Education to be qualified to teach music in a school, this is a one-year qualification. Obviously a music degree will also look good and make you more employable in this setting. Also, learn other instruments, as many as you can. The more you learn the more you can teach. I teach bass but I get a lot more work teaching guitar.

Don't know what it's like where you live, but where I am there's a joke about jazz players:

Q: What did the jazz musician say to the pop musician?
A: Would you like fries with that?

That should give you some idea of how financially viable that style of music is. Still good skills to know though. I guess the main thing I'm getting at is - broaden your horizons as much as you can. Don't be a specialist in one style, be an all-rounder. You may never be an absolute master at [insert your favourite musical style here], but if you're pretty good at almost all of them, you'll have a lot more opportunities. Also, as you grow older your tastes in music may shift, it's good to learn styles you might not care much for now because you may enjoy playing them later.

So where are the jobs, actually playing bass?

Well, there's the obvious "join a band and seek stardom" thing, but realistically that only happens to very few people. It's not something that I'd bank on, but stranger things have happened. There's session work, which is a very, very tough field to get into (all about who you know), but if you can play bass and sight-read music (not just tab but notation) and you're a pleasant guy who is easy to get along with and reliable, then you have as much of a shot at this as anybody. The people to ask about this are the people who record the sessions, ask studio engineers who get a lot of work, they may be able to point you in the right direction of who to talk to. Then you can get jobs playing bass in all sorts of places. You could be playing bass as hired gun for some big singer on a tour, or for a TV show, or you could be playing bass on a commercial for a breakfast cereal - all are good money. Some armed forces actually want musicians but I don't think they would want bass guitarists, you'd have to check. Usually they just want brass marching bands but who knows maybe the States is different. Plus you'd have to go through basic training, which isn't for everybody. However income is usually tax free.

There you go, that's what I can think up off the top of my head.

 

[Ham_authority95]

I have a question about getting work as a bassist.

I'm already in two bands, I'm going into jazz band this coming school year, and I'm thinking of studying music in college.

My question is: After highschool/college, all my "training" in my bands, and when I've finally set foot into the real world of music, what do I need to do to have a chance at making money off my instrument?

-snip-

This all sounds good, especially the teaching.

I have another question, should I invest in moving to a city with a much larger music scene/industry(Like L.A, Nashville, etc etc) to get more of the above work?

 

[BonsaiK]

I have a question about getting work as a bassist.

I'm already in two bands, I'm going into jazz band this coming school year, and I'm thinking of studying music in college.

My question is: After highschool/college, all my "training" in my bands, and when I've finally set foot into the real world of music, what do I need to do to have a chance at making money off my instrument?

-snip-

This all sounds good, especially the teaching.

I have another question, should I invest in moving to a city with a much larger music scene/industry(Like L.A, Nashville, etc etc) to get more of the above work?

Teaching is easy to get, definitely the easiest option to get you a little bit of money when the time comes. If you have a college degree in music that'll look impressive enough for you to either get freelance work, or teach out of a music shop or music studio. If you then have the educational qualifications too, you can teach in schools. However even with no qualifications you can advertise and work from home (don't recommend it if your house is filled with expensive gear though) or visit people and teach them.

Also don't rule out busking, you might be surprised how much you can earn from that. Some places require a busking license first, or have rules about how much you can play when etc. but generally hit-and-run busking can net you a fair bit if you're desperate to pay bills or eat.

As for moving, well, I didn't have to, but then, I don't make much money either, I guess it depends where you live. Sometimes it's better to be a bigger fish in a smaller pond. Bigger cities mean that there is a more active scene and thus more work, but it also means more competition (because, of course, everyone moves there to make money) so it's a bit of a double-edged sword. I wouldn't move by default unless you really have your heart set on the "fame" option - explore the options where you live first. If you're specifically into teaching, remember that the best teachers tend to thrive in places where there isn't a lot of competition so you want to try and find a place where there's a bit of a teaching shortfall if you can. That won't be in LA or Nashville!

 

[Ham_authority95]

]

-snip-

This all sounds good, especially the teaching.

I have another question, should I invest in moving to a city with a much larger music scene/industry(Like L.A, Nashville, etc etc) to get more of the above work?

Teaching is easy to get, definitely the easiest option to get you a little bit of money when the time comes. If you have a college degree in music that'll look impressive enough for you to either get freelance work, or teach out of a music shop or music studio. If you then have the educational qualifications too, you can teach in schools. However even with no qualifications you can advertise and work from home (don't recommend it if your house is filled with expensive gear though) or visit people and teach them.

Also don't rule out busking, you might be surprised how much you can earn from that. Some places require a busking license first, or have rules about how much you can play when etc. but generally hit-and-run busking can net you a fair bit if you're desperate to pay bills or eat.

As for moving, well, I didn't have to, but then, I don't make much money either, I guess it depends where you live. Sometimes it's better to be a bigger fish in a smaller pond. Bigger cities mean that there is a more active scene and thus more work, but it also means more competition (because, of course, everyone moves there to make money) so it's a bit of a double-edged sword. I wouldn't move by default unless you really have your heart set on the "fame" option - explore the options where you live first. If you're specifically into teaching, remember that the best teachers tend to thrive in places where there isn't a lot of competition so you want to try and find a place where there's a bit of a teaching shortfall if you can. That won't be in LA or Nashville!

Yeah, since my city is a college town, it has a pretty good music scene(Even spawning a few nationally famous acts), and there are definately tons of aspiring musicians.

 

[BonsaiK]

]

-snip-

This all sounds good, especially the teaching.

I have another question, should I invest in moving to a city with a much larger music scene/industry(Like L.A, Nashville, etc etc) to get more of the above work?

Teaching is easy to get, definitely the easiest option to get you a little bit of money when the time comes. If you have a college degree in music that'll look impressive enough for you to either get freelance work, or teach out of a music shop or music studio. If you then have the educational qualifications too, you can teach in schools. However even with no qualifications you can advertise and work from home (don't recommend it if your house is filled with expensive gear though) or visit people and teach them.

Also don't rule out busking, you might be surprised how much you can earn from that. Some places require a busking license first, or have rules about how much you can play when etc. but generally hit-and-run busking can net you a fair bit if you're desperate to pay bills or eat.

As for moving, well, I didn't have to, but then, I don't make much money either, I guess it depends where you live. Sometimes it's better to be a bigger fish in a smaller pond. Bigger cities mean that there is a more active scene and thus more work, but it also means more competition (because, of course, everyone moves there to make money) so it's a bit of a double-edged sword. I wouldn't move by default unless you really have your heart set on the "fame" option - explore the options where you live first. If you're specifically into teaching, remember that the best teachers tend to thrive in places where there isn't a lot of competition so you want to try and find a place where there's a bit of a teaching shortfall if you can. That won't be in LA or Nashville!

Yeah, since my city is a college town, it has a pretty good music scene(Even spawning a few nationally famous acts), and there are definately tons of aspiring musicians.

In that case I'd be staying put. Teenagers to early 20s make the best students, low maintenance and they like to practice. To get started, you could probably stick up ads at your college saying you're a music teacher, and see what happens. Universities always have tons of empty rooms not being used at any given moment so you could just teach anywhere on campus you wanted that was vacant. Then when it's time to seek out more reliable teaching work, you can say that you already have experience (which you do) and you've got a ton of students and ex-students you can now use as legitimate character/professional references. In the meantime see how far your bands take you, because you never know - like the lottery you gotta be in it to win it.

 

[Ham_authority95]

In that case I'd be staying put. Teenagers to early 20s make the best students, low maintenance and they like to practice. To get started, you could probably stick up ads at your college saying you're a music teacher, and see what happens. Universities always have tons of empty rooms not being used at any given moment so you could just teach anywhere on campus you wanted that was vacant. Then when it's time to seek out more reliable teaching work, you can say that you already have experience (which you do) and you've got a ton of students and ex-students you can now use as legitimate character/professional references. In the meantime see how far your bands take you, because you never know - like the lottery you gotta be in it to win it.

Alright, I'd better get my skills in order, then.

And yes, I'll definately continuing with my bands.

 

[BonsaiK]

Why can't the RIAA follow the laws when they're investigating 'piracy'?

Please be more specific. I'm not from the USA and therefore the RIAA doesn't impact my life a lot. You'll have to tell me exactly what incident or incidences you're referring to.

 

[Eggsnham]

I have a question, sorry if it's already been asked, but here goes:

What does it take to become a part of the industry?

I don't just mean producers executives either. Though I would like to know how one becomes a producer/Executive.

Like how is a musician most likely to be signed?

And also, does a musician get his soul back when the contract expires?

[small][sub]I had to.[/sub][/small]

 

[BonsaiK]

I have a question, sorry if it's already been asked, but here goes:

What does it take to become a part of the industry?

I don't just mean producers executives either. Though I would like to know how one becomes a producer/Executive.

Like how is a musician most likely to be signed?

Musicians getting signed: already answered - http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.216487-Curious-about-the-music-industry-Find-out-stuff?page=4#7377251

Producers: building your own studio and then recording bands there is the guaranteed way, although it certainly does require some capital outlay. That actually makes you an audio engineer rather than a producer, but then just because you're the engineer doesn't mean you can't double as a producer too. Once you have a good quality studio built and advertise it, bands will come knocking. If you happen to record a few bands that go on to do big things, bigger bands may then come knocking. You can also increase your rates then.

Executives: same way you get any other executive job. Look for job ads in the newspaper, in industry publications, and on the internet. Industry publications more than anywhere else though. Executives generally have specialised skills and experience in management, budgeting, accounting, etc. so you may need to have business experience or qualifications. The ads themselves will of course tell you what you need.

And also, does a musician get his soul back when the contract expires?

[small][sub]I had to.[/sub][/small]

No. We melt the souls down and make those gold records you see hanging on studio walls with them. If you shine them in the light just right, you can see a rainbow-like tint, that's the soul inside trying to get out. [cue maniacal laughter]

 

[ChaoticKraus]

Right i'm going to pester you again. I'm not really sure what i want to work with in the future but i always figured it would be stellar working in an industry you're actually interested in, instead of selling heaters for people's vacation homes or something.

Thus i have a few questions. I definitely do not have the musical talent to be an artist myself and from what i understand of producing music it's also reliant on being musically talented. But there must be tons of other jobs in the industry right?

Some i have heard of are Band Manager and Publicists. There are problably other as well which i haven't heard of. So i'm wondering are these careers worth pursuing? Are people with these jobs nice people or are they all massive corporate arseholes? What are they doing on their work more concretely? What does it take any to get into these kinds of jobs, networking and volunteer work or some kind of education? What about worktimes and pay? I understand that there's probably not any industry standard but y'know, i would like to be able to have a house and pursue a relationship or something on the side.

So if you strip away all the unncecessary bullshit my questions are basically: What kind of jobs and occupations are there in (or affiliated with) the industry? And are those careers worth doing or should i find another butterfly to chase?

Personally i think i would do rather fine in some kind of dealmaker/Public Relations/artist extortion/whatever kind of work. I do have a thing for the whole talking, convincing, charming, intimidating stuff.

Oh and if it is worth doing, are there some kind of website or magazine or something i should follow to get an insight into the industry. Or music in general for that matter, i'm still not sure i can differentiate EDM/house/dance/Drum n Bass/trance and whatever else you call the different kinds of "nightclub electronic dancey music ©".

Again, sorry for the massive amount of questions as well as the equally massive amount of time i steal from you. (I'll shut up now)

 

[AgentNein]

You said something earlier about how most of the problems that people think are unique only to the contemporary music industry actually go back quite a ways (and I've said this myself many times), but what would you say are the new issues, the issues the music industry is facing now (both creatively and financially), that it didn't ten twenty or fifty years ago? Aside from the obvious piracy issues that is.

 

[BonsaiK]

Right i'm going to pester you again. I'm not really sure what i want to work with in the future but i always figured it would be stellar working in an industry you're actually interested in, instead of selling heaters for people's vacation homes or something.

Thus i have a few questions. I definitely do not have the musical talent to be an artist myself and from what i understand of producing music it's also reliant on being musically talented. But there must be tons of other jobs in the industry right?

Some i have heard of are Band Manager and Publicists. There are problably other as well which i haven't heard of. So i'm wondering are these careers worth pursuing? Are people with these jobs nice people or are they all massive corporate arseholes? What are they doing on their work more concretely? What does it take any to get into these kinds of jobs, networking and volunteer work or some kind of education? What about worktimes and pay? I understand that there's probably not any industry standard but y'know, i would like to be able to have a house and pursue a relationship or something on the side.

So if you strip away all the unncecessary bullshit my questions are basically: What kind of jobs and occupations are there in (or affiliated with) the industry? And are those careers worth doing or should i find another butterfly to chase?

Personally i think i would do rather fine in some kind of dealmaker/Public Relations/artist extortion/whatever kind of work. I do have a thing for the whole talking, convincing, charming, intimidating stuff.

Oh and if it is worth doing, are there some kind of website or magazine or something i should follow to get an insight into the industry. Or music in general for that matter, i'm still not sure i can differentiate EDM/house/dance/Drum n Bass/trance and whatever else you call the different kinds of "nightclub electronic dancey music ©".

Again, sorry for the massive amount of questions as well as the equally massive amount of time i steal from you. (I'll shut up now)

Keep asking stuff if you want, that's what this thread is for after all...

Sounds like you might be alright at a band management kind of role. A band mamanger is basically a representiative of the band who is there to push the band's interests and do all that boring stuff like organising gigs, accomodation, transport, technical staff like engineers etc, as well as act as an official contact point to mediate information from other parties to the band. Occasionally you might have to pull the Robert Loggia in Lost Highway routine when dealing with venue owners who won't pay, or record company staff who owe royalties, but generally speaking people who work in that side of things are nice people, because they're being paid to get along with others after all. A band manager usually doesn't take a wage but instead a cut of the band's earnings (normally about 15% but this can vary). This gives the band manager an incentive to make those phone calls that everyone else has been putting off and make the band earn as much as possible. Some bands do manage themselves, this is certainly possible but to be an effective manager requires diligence, the abnility to push a product even harder than the band themselves while at the same time not pissing off others, and a fairly organised brain, qualities which a lot of musicians lack.

A lot of jobs on the record company side of things are just like those in any other industry: secretaries, cleaners, accountants, lawyers, bosses who make the decisions... there's a notable exception which is the A&R (artist & repertoire) person. This person manages artists on the label, and is kind of like a band manager, but for a record label, in that they perform a mediatory function and are also there to do boring organisational shit. A&R is to executives kind of what managers are to bands - they do all the fiddly shit while the manager is busy making the big decisions (I'm oversimplifying here, they do other stuff too). To give you an example of how this might play out, if the boss of some big record company isn't happy with some band's new single or hairstyle or drug habit or whatever, he'll talk to the A&R person of the label who has that artist under their umbrella and say "I'm really not happy with X". That A&R person will then chat to the band manager and say "look, this is what the boss of the label is saying, please pass that onto the band because we need to do something about it". Then the message gets passed to the band by the band manager and they work out some kind of solution to pass back to the A&R guy who then tells the boss, or maybe the A&R guy doesn't tell the boss because the boss just says "I trust you to handle this situation appropriately". Or, maybe the band just says "fuck you" and then that gets passed back up the chain of command, who knows, in which case, the boss probably doesn't get to hear that but the A&R person then may try to come up with another solution, send that to band management, rinse and repeat until the relationship gets smoother...

There's endless music trade publications, every city has one. Read them and learn stuff. Keep in mind though that most people who write for these things are either making shit up as they go along, or accessing "morgue files" which have incorrect information for the most part. Whenever reporting on a band happens, that information gets chucked into a "morgue file" to be reaccessed when the band then re-emerge with their next album two or three years later. Falsehoods that find their way into these files tend to be very hard to dispel. But yeah what's I'm getting at is the best wqay to find out about music is to immerse yourself in that scene. Don't know about punk? Go to punk shows. Don't know about dance? Go to dance clubs. Etc.

Oh and you don't need qualifications for any of this stuff. If you want to do it, just find an artist that you believe in and offer to be their manager, then start booking them shows. (Research venues around town first though, so you don't try and book the band at a place that sucks, or then they won't trust you.)

 

[BonsaiK]

You said something earlier about how most of the problems that people think are unique only to the contemporary music industry actually go back quite a ways (and I've said this myself many times), but what would you say are the new issues, the issues the music industry is facing now (both creatively and financially), that it didn't ten twenty or fifty years ago? Aside from the obvious piracy issues that is.

Yeah I won't talk about piracy and the related recession because that's been discussed earlier, and yeah everyone knows about it anyway...

The biggest hidden issue right now? There's a real lack of awareness at the moment about hearing loss in certain circles, mainly in the dance music scene. Pop, rock and metal kids are acutely aware that their music may potentially damage them and the smarter musos take precautions such as earplugs etc, but club DJs almost never do. Almost every professional club DJ I know over the age of 30 has had to stop working because they went deaf in one ear, from half-wearing headphones, using headphones to cue in one ear while listening to the loud PA system in the other ear (which is what you have to do for beat-mixing on decks). They all went deaf in the headphone ear. Headphones are murder on the ears, the human ear just isn't designed to have sound sources that close to it. The very worst are those iPod style headphones that actually sit in your ear, your ears are better off seeing Slayer play live every weekend and I'm not even exaggerating. I think the worst thing to happen to the music industry is the walkman and the portable MP3 player, and in-ear headphones. Pete Townsend of The Who didn't get tinnitus from his band's blistering onstage volumes (interesting aside: due to advances in sub-bass technology, modern rock gigs are actually significantly quieter than they were in the 70s), he got it because he used to wear headphones all the time - in the plane, in the bath, etc. Anyway I think this is going to be putting a lot of people out of work, both in the industry directly to a certain level, but more importantly through consumers losing interest in the music they love (and thus not spending money on it) because they just can't hear it that well anymore.

 

[ChaoticKraus]

Thanks for the info, i'll keep this in the back of my head. Probably going to check out the local music some more as well.

 

[Ivan Brogstog]

Hey, I have a job (outside of the music industry) and have been saving for some time as well (so money isn't really an issue for me) Is it worth going overseas to England or America to play/gig/try get signed/etc ?

 

[BonsaiK]

Hey, I have a job (outside of the music industry) and have been saving for some time as well (so money isn't really an issue for me) Is it worth going overseas to England or America to play/gig/try get signed/etc ?

I suppose you could but you'd be joining a huge queue of other people doing the same thing, of which fewer than 0.1% ever make a sustainable living. It's always better to try and carve a niche out in your hometown first than to try and go somewhere else. Sydney sucks for live bands but it's good for almost all other aspects of the industry. I guess it depends what your skills are, how good you are and exactly what you intend to do.