Current Developer Attitudes - Developers vs Gamers?

[Canadamus Prime]

What is comes down to is this: The developers games are literally their babies. They have put years of their lives into the game and poured their heart and soul into it, only to see these gamers come in and just rip it down (sometimes justified; sometimes not).

There's that, but I think it's also the fact that I think many developers are sick and tired of feeling unappreciated and taken for granted. I know I would be and were I in their position I'd be hard pressed to hold back a few choice expletive laiden words of my own.
I think a lot of the this has to do with the emergence of social media outlets like Twitter and Facebook. With these outlets it's so much easier for gamers to let developers know exactly how dissatisfied they are with their game and in no uncertain terms (see G.I.F.T [http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19]). And it's these same social media outlets that make it easier for developers to tell gamers exactly what they think of their feedback (also falling victim to the afor mentioned G.I.F.T [http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19]).

There are some developers who understand that not everyone is going to like their game but no one writes the story: "Developer thinks Gamers are right with criticism". The handful of crazies in a sea of normal people stick out because they're the ones that people want to read about so they are the ones that get reported on.

Of course, that's not newsworthy.

 

[Epona]

What is comes down to is this: The developers games are literally their babies. They have put years of their lives into the game and poured their heart and soul into it, only to see these gamers come in and just rip it down (sometimes justified; sometimes not).

So, when games get criticized they're "the developer's babies and they put their heart and soul into it", but when it comes to things like day 1 DLC, games are "business".

Make up your mind, devs, it's one or the other.

Exactly!

You wanna make your dream game without regard to gamers, don't expect it to sell well. You wanna make money, you better care what gamers think.

2 captchas in a row.

Enh.... I think part of the problem here is that money-grubbing outsiders with clout are more to blame here, pushing developers to make choices that they prolly wouldn't want to do.

A developer friend of mine, on the topic of the Arkham City preorder exclusives pointed out that the developers in all likelihood would want to give everyone the alternate costumes, but its gamestop and the other retail places who called for those exclusives.

Game development is hard. And most of the people actually making the games have a real passion for them. I wouldn't be too hard on the developers themselves.

If you get in bed with the likes of EA, Ubisoft, Activision or similar, don't come crying when they exert their influence. You take a publishers money, you are part of their team. I see no distinction between the developer and publisher and let's be honest, we have seen a few developers with the same opinions as publishers in regards to used games and piracy.

Without them games dont get made.

A budget of millions of dollars dont appear from nowhere. Now you might be thinking that "I dont care about triple A, and the indie can manage" but the indie scene wouldn't be able to turn a profit if it wasn't for the triple AAA expanding the market to the point it is.

Yes, publishers are needed currently but you take the good with the bad. You can't separate the two. We aren't still pretending EA and Bioware are different entities are we?

 

[ablac]

A good deal of arrogance and the idea that its theri 'art' and thus if you dont like their design choices then you are simply at fault. Developers dont seem to realise who pays their salaries.

 

[InsanityRequiem]

Funny thing is, some people seem to act like this doesn't happen in any of the other mediums. Movie makers, book writers, tv show creators, etc. all act the same depending on who's who. The only problem is that gaming is one of the more expensive mediums, a game costing $60+, while a book costs roughly $10, movies ranging between $10-$30(depending on if you buy snacks), and all that.

So of course we have some small groups of gamers that feel harsh to the maker side, and then a small group of makers attack back at the gamers.

Sadly, it's the flow of money that makes all these bad attitudes.

 

[mjc0961]

People who aren't professional being selected as the face of their company for some unfathomable reason? See also: David Jaffe.

David Jaffe? He's one of the most professional game developers I've ever seen. How many other developers out there have the balls to stand up and say "We fucked up and you have every right to be mad and trade the game in" and give regular updates on the progress of the fixes? I don't have an exact number, but I know it's damn few. I'll much rather have developers be like David Jaffe than like useless shitheads such as Warren Spector [http://www.joystiq.com/2010/12/08/warren-spector-says-reviewers-misunderstood-epic-mickey-camera/] who write off all criticism as players not understanding their game (bullshit). It's the latter that's unprofessional; just man up and admit you made a shitty camera. Don't sit there and tell lies about how no other game has had a good camera and then be a pretentious asshole saying that nobody understands the game.

I don't really care if Warren Spector helped make Deus Ex all those years ago. Statements like that cause me to have more respect for the gum stuck to the bottom of my shoe than I do for him. And back to Jaffe, I again say that more developers should be like him. Admit you fucked up and keep us in the loop about the fixes. No "Oh, you just don't understand our game and nobody has made an online component with great connections" bullshit from Jaffe, because he's a professional.

 

[-Samurai-]

Contrary to popular belief, developers have never cared about what their customers want. Ever. Where people got that stupid idea, I don't know.

And the attitude of gamers comes from them being whiny little bitches that think that developers owe them for buying their product. You're not doing them a favor, and they didn't ask you to buy anything. You made the purchase on your own. They owe you nothing.

The companies haven't changed, but the mindset of the everyday consumer has, and not for the better.

And I swear to god the first person to quote me saying "so we should just take it in the ass from big developers/publishers?" is getting an ice pick to the throat.

 

[lord Claincy Ffnord]

For most of the actual developers who have been in the game industry for a while it really isn't that much about the money. There is a distinction here, for the company its a lot about the money but for the devs themselves, most of them just want enough to get by and the true reason they are in games development is because they want to make something for everyone to enjoy. And Nobody is happy if you tell them that what they just put the last couple of years of their life into is complete rubbish.

Tasteful criticism is helpful, thats not the problem, its the group of people (yes I'm not saying they're the majority in any way.) that are responsible for all the nerd rage, the only thing it does is raise tempers on both sides and when the devs start getting told that they are greedy assholes who don't give a shit about the gamer community (this being the people they were making the game for/why they were making games......anyway) they understandably get a bit riled up. As said earlier the devs, while their companies may be rivals (at least generally) don't hold hard feelings toward each-other and many know each-other and hearing friends get shit piled on them from the community is going to make them angry too.

When the devs do lash out verbally against the gaming community it just stirs up more hate from the community and makes things worse. The most important thing is that it is only a small group of gamers that are really doing this and very few of the devs that have responded badly like that.

 

[lord Claincy Ffnord]

Ok. The main reason many if not most devs are in games development is because they want to create something for everyone, something special something awesome, and if they weren't passionate about it they would probably have washed out of the industry already. Some devs may not care but I guarantee you that most devs, when the chips are down are there to create something for everyone.

And no of course this doesn't mean they are going to do what the customers want a lot of the time, a good lot of the time they have a good idea of what is better and/or more feasible than the often unreasonable demands that the customers make. If all the devs just listened to what the more vocal gamers said and acted following that then innovation would practically dissapear from the industry.

Finally yes, they do want to make THEIR game, not your game, their game. But they want to make it for you.

 

[Slayer_2]

within the last few months in the gaming world Ive noticed a current trend among some developers that have reacted to criticism by (as I see it) attacking the general market, usually with insults, belittlement and just telling them that really their opinion doesn't matter (we make it and if you don't like it, your the one with the problem).
I first noticed it with developer Vector Cell responding to criticism about their game AMY, then with EA/Biowere/ME3 debacle and finally with Phil Fish, maker of FEZ (although that was more of a tantrum I think but I think it relates)

what I'm wondering is where did this whole attitude of what I see as Developers vs Gamers stem from? did it happen just suddenly and if so where? or was it gradual with changing upper management culture or whatever

also those are some examples that Ive noticed, if there are more examples that prove or disprove my statements let me know

Question, have you ever made a game or mod and released it to the general public?

 

[Thoric485]

It's not pleasant, but I much prefer it to putting up a PR wall and communicating through press releases or some snappy marketing guy who hasn't seen the inside of a dev studio.

 

[TehCookie]

I think part of it is that developing games takes a lot more time, money and effort than older games and the consumers don't want to pay more. The publishers/developers need that money if they want to continue making games so they pry it out of consumer hands by ways we hate (DRM, DLC etc).

Not to mention gamers today are a lot more picky and will yell and scream if they aren't satisfied. Compare Pokemon to L4D, different place, different people, different weapons/pokemon, same core mechanics. One is perfectly fine rehashing the same thing while the other was hated before it was even released. Not to mention that devs/pubs know that gamers will buy it like a crack addict, but I think they would be more worried that the addicts complaining will affect the casual browser so they want to shut them up. With more expensive games they need more sales, and even if they have the gamer sales they still need the extras from casuals. Things like paid reviews won't fool anyone in the gaming culture, but it will fool people who aren't and they depend on those undecided consumers.

 

[Phlakes]

Are you serious? Look at all the shit gamers put devs through, you can't for a second make them out to be victims here. Developers create and try to protect content and gamers pirate it, zero-bomb it, threaten to boycott the developer for whatever reason, send hate mail, etc.

If they're getting defensive, they have every right to.

 

[Antari]

within the last few months in the gaming world Ive noticed a current trend among some developers that have reacted to criticism by (as I see it) attacking the general market, usually with insults, belittlement and just telling them that really their opinion doesn't matter (we make it and if you don't like it, your the one with the problem).
I first noticed it with developer Vector Cell responding to criticism about their game AMY, then with EA/Biowere/ME3 debacle and finally with Phil Fish, maker of FEZ (although that was more of a tantrum I think but I think it relates)

what I'm wondering is where did this whole attitude of what I see as Developers vs Gamers stem from? did it happen just suddenly and if so where? or was it gradual with changing upper management culture or whatever

also those are some examples that Ive noticed, if there are more examples that prove or disprove my statements let me know

Mostly the backlash stems from the fact that technically the person you are reaching isn't the person who was calling the shots on the deadline. Most games don't get finished or polished to anything approaching a finished product because of accountants. If you draw a line all the way back to the primary cause of nearly all the problems in the industry. The accountants hold the most blame. They have been given WAY too much power over the creative process.

They destroy a game by forcing it to be released too soon, with too many money grabs. The consumers backlash, usually at the programmers. And the programmers freak because they didn't have much of any control over things in that department. It was just an accountant. Saying, "We need our money by this day. To hell if the game is finished or not."

 

[Epona]

Are you serious? Look at all the shit gamers put devs through, you can't for a second make them out to be victims here. Developers create and try to protect content and gamers pirate it, zero-bomb it, threaten to boycott the developer for whatever reason, send hate mail, etc.

If they're getting defensive, they have every right to.

Funny how you don't mention that gamers BUY it. If gamers weren't buying the games and were instead pirating them, it wouldn't long take before that developer couldn't afford to make more games for people to ***** about. Honestly, do you really believe that most of the people bitching about ME3 or the PS3 version of Skyrim, pirated those games?

Moral is: If people are bitching about your game, the earned that right when they bought it.

 

[Heinrich843]

I dunno, I think it's because people keep buying recycled games at full price, and then paying for the day one DLC, and all sorts of other fun things.

Not all devs/publishers make statements that anger fans and cause a "US vs THEM" atmosphere, but it's not hard to see why this occurs.

Say a dev or a publisher makes a really outlandish statement that angers the fans. All I can think is, "Well, I guess they can really say anything, people will still buy hundreds of thousands of copies- if not millions".

Would you respect people that behaved as the consumers of video games do? Those who would pay for a product, complain heavily about it (perhaps justifiably)- but then go back and buy another product from that same person.

(Yes, a corporate entity is a natural entity. NOOO, SUBWAYYYYY)

They don't have to respect gamers, because gamers seem to forget about their bad experiences upon sight of a new shiny toy.

Of course, not everyone behaves as such- but enough do.