Current Developer Attitudes - Developers vs Gamers?

[Kahunaburger]

whether or not games are "art" or a "service"

Underlined: the problem with this statement.

Regardless of whether we consider games to conform to a nebulous "art" definition, they are generally sold as products.

You. Do. Not. Get. To. Argue. With. Your. Customers.

 

[Simonism451]

whether or not games are "art" or a "service"

Underlined: the problem with this statement.

Regardless of whether we consider games to conform to a nebulous "art" definition, they are generally sold as products.

You. Do. Not. Get. To. Argue. With. Your. Customers.

So you argue that if enough people complained about it, Bioware should remove the homosexual relationship options from Dragon Age 2?
I think what you fail to see is that if "the customer is king" mentality was really adopted by the games industry, the majority of games we (or at least I) love today would not even exist, because, let's face it, the biggest and most profitable gaming series of all time is Call of Duty.

 

[zombieshark6666]

They're used to having kids as customers, even though the parents would pay. The gamer demographic is much older now, and people can recognize when a game is too short, buggy, badly balanced, etc. so they get attacked more frequently. It's like a toy maker realizing all of a sudden that he has a business and that people will hold him accountable. Game develoeprs are like Peter Griffin.

See Yahtzee, Total Biscuit, Giant Bomb, etc.

 

[ablac]

A good deal of arrogance and the idea that its theri 'art' and thus if you dont like their design choices then you are simply at fault. Developers dont seem to realise who pays their salaries.

If you think you do....

Then there is a large amount of irony at work here.

What do you mean? Even if our money does not go to them directly it is the cause of thier salary. I do not see any irony in that.

You dont pay their salaries. The publishers do. You pay their salaries in kickstarter maybe, but not othervise. They get paid no matter if the game gets sold or not, as long as it gets made.

It is this stupid sentence people use "I Pay your salary". No you dont. It is among the fallacies of "the customer is always right". Its an over simplification and simply not true.

Thought you meant that and I doubted myself thinking no one could actually have issue with it. We buy their games. That money finances them through either success resulting in funding from a publisher or if they are independent (valve included) it goes straight to them. We pay their salaries. This is not limited to those kickstarted things and I cant understand how you dont see that. I was not saying the customer is always right because that is and isnt true in certain ways but thats a seperate discussion, as the two statements are wholly unrelated. We are their customers and we decide if they make money or not, they do not laugh it up when a game bombs because they know they will not be successful in future (or at least as much). I was saying that, as their paying customers, they owe us repsect and should understand that we are not a given. Your argument is above all, pointless and nitpicky.

 

[Something Amyss]

What is comes down to is this: The developers games are literally their babies.

That's great, but remember when developers were actually professionals?

 

[Technocrat]

Maybe a problem with game development being sold to people as a lifestyle instead of as a vocation. There really isn't any real obvious benefit to society from game development other than keeping people off the streets I suppose.

Hang on, what on earth are you doing on a website entirely devoted to computer games?

 

[ablac]

A good deal of arrogance and the idea that its theri 'art' and thus if you dont like their design choices then you are simply at fault. Developers dont seem to realise who pays their salaries.

If you think you do....

Then there is a large amount of irony at work here.

What do you mean? Even if our money does not go to them directly it is the cause of thier salary. I do not see any irony in that.

You dont pay their salaries. The publishers do. You pay their salaries in kickstarter maybe, but not othervise. They get paid no matter if the game gets sold or not, as long as it gets made.

It is this stupid sentence people use "I Pay your salary". No you dont. It is among the fallacies of "the customer is always right". Its an over simplification and simply not true.

Thought you meant that and I doubted myself thinking no one could actually have issue with it. We buy their games. That money finances them through either success resulting in funding from a publisher or if they are independent (valve included) it goes straight to them. We pay their salaries. This is not limited to those kickstarted things and I cant understand how you dont see that. I was not saying the customer is always right because that is and isnt true in certain ways but thats a seperate discussion, as the two statements are wholly unrelated. We are their customers and we decide if they make money or not, they do not laugh it up when a game bombs because they know they will not be successful in future (or at least as much). I was saying that, as their paying customers, they owe us repsect and should understand that we are not a given. Your argument is above all, pointless and nitpicky.

I have been helping making games for Danish sites for about a year now Most of the work I have done is been holiday related games for TV stations kids section. I dont get paid per use/sale.

The developers dont get paid per sale (well technically there are instances where they do, but like me the norm is a monthly paycheck). They get new contracts if their games do well, sometimes. Other times they dont. Wether or not you get a contract again has more to do with your relationship with your publisher than it has to do with sale. Publisher know that there are more factors in sales than quality, and it is the publisher who answers to the customer. Not me.

To go "I pay your salary!" to a developer is just as stupid as doing it to a teacher in a public school. And oversimplification of a system.

So your trying to tell me that if a game sells poorly then the devs will still get funding? What planet do you live on? We are talking about devs of mainstream games, not to belittle your work, rather than you yourself.What I said earlier still holds Your teacher analogy is spot on in that we also pay the salaries of teachers through tax. Aside from that they have no similarities. One we choose to buy the other we are forced to fund. If a dev comes and attacks gamers for criticising them when we pay their salary, which we do, showing no respect then they are out of order. Gamers pay their salary, they should treat us with bloody respect.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Maybe a problem with game development being sold to people as a lifestyle instead of as a vocation. There really isn't any real obvious benefit to society from game development other than keeping people off the streets I suppose.

Hang on, what on earth are you doing on a website entirely devoted to computer games?

Dunno, guess I'm representing the minority of people who don't want a career in "the industry."

 

[ablac]

A good deal of arrogance and the idea that its theri 'art' and thus if you dont like their design choices then you are simply at fault. Developers dont seem to realise who pays their salaries.

If you think you do....

Then there is a large amount of irony at work here.

What do you mean? Even if our money does not go to them directly it is the cause of thier salary. I do not see any irony in that.

You dont pay their salaries. The publishers do. You pay their salaries in kickstarter maybe, but not othervise. They get paid no matter if the game gets sold or not, as long as it gets made.

It is this stupid sentence people use "I Pay your salary". No you dont. It is among the fallacies of "the customer is always right". Its an over simplification and simply not true.

Thought you meant that and I doubted myself thinking no one could actually have issue with it. We buy their games. That money finances them through either success resulting in funding from a publisher or if they are independent (valve included) it goes straight to them. We pay their salaries. This is not limited to those kickstarted things and I cant understand how you dont see that. I was not saying the customer is always right because that is and isnt true in certain ways but thats a seperate discussion, as the two statements are wholly unrelated. We are their customers and we decide if they make money or not, they do not laugh it up when a game bombs because they know they will not be successful in future (or at least as much). I was saying that, as their paying customers, they owe us repsect and should understand that we are not a given. Your argument is above all, pointless and nitpicky.

I have been helping making games for Danish sites for about a year now Most of the work I have done is been holiday related games for TV stations kids section. I dont get paid per use/sale.

The developers dont get paid per sale (well technically there are instances where they do, but like me the norm is a monthly paycheck). They get new contracts if their games do well, sometimes. Other times they dont. Wether or not you get a contract again has more to do with your relationship with your publisher than it has to do with sale. Publisher know that there are more factors in sales than quality, and it is the publisher who answers to the customer. Not me.

To go "I pay your salary!" to a developer is just as stupid as doing it to a teacher in a public school. And oversimplification of a system.

So your trying to tell me that if a game sells poorly then the devs will still get funding? What planet do you live on? We are talking about devs of mainstream games, not to belittle your work, rather than you yourself.What I said earlier still holds Your teacher analogy is spot on in that we also pay the salaries of teachers through tax. Aside from that they have no similarities. One we choose to buy the other we are forced to fund. If a dev comes and attacks gamers for criticising them when we pay their salary, which we do, showing no respect then they are out of order. Gamers pay their salary, they should treat us with bloody respect.

No.

I am saying that I still get paid if the game sells poorly. Thats the thing about working on a product that takes sometimes years to make and you are paid on a monthly basis. No matter how the game sell. I already got my money. So no you dont pay my salary.

I swear to god. I stated that I was not talking about you but of mainstream developers. You are not, this is fact not a derogative. I foyu cannot see that then you cannot read.

 

[ablac]

A good deal of arrogance and the idea that its theri 'art' and thus if you dont like their design choices then you are simply at fault. Developers dont seem to realise who pays their salaries.

If you think you do....

Then there is a large amount of irony at work here.

What do you mean? Even if our money does not go to them directly it is the cause of thier salary. I do not see any irony in that.

You dont pay their salaries. The publishers do. You pay their salaries in kickstarter maybe, but not othervise. They get paid no matter if the game gets sold or not, as long as it gets made.

It is this stupid sentence people use "I Pay your salary". No you dont. It is among the fallacies of "the customer is always right". Its an over simplification and simply not true.

Thought you meant that and I doubted myself thinking no one could actually have issue with it. We buy their games. That money finances them through either success resulting in funding from a publisher or if they are independent (valve included) it goes straight to them. We pay their salaries. This is not limited to those kickstarted things and I cant understand how you dont see that. I was not saying the customer is always right because that is and isnt true in certain ways but thats a seperate discussion, as the two statements are wholly unrelated. We are their customers and we decide if they make money or not, they do not laugh it up when a game bombs because they know they will not be successful in future (or at least as much). I was saying that, as their paying customers, they owe us repsect and should understand that we are not a given. Your argument is above all, pointless and nitpicky.

I have been helping making games for Danish sites for about a year now Most of the work I have done is been holiday related games for TV stations kids section. I dont get paid per use/sale.

The developers dont get paid per sale (well technically there are instances where they do, but like me the norm is a monthly paycheck). They get new contracts if their games do well, sometimes. Other times they dont. Wether or not you get a contract again has more to do with your relationship with your publisher than it has to do with sale. Publisher know that there are more factors in sales than quality, and it is the publisher who answers to the customer. Not me.

To go "I pay your salary!" to a developer is just as stupid as doing it to a teacher in a public school. And oversimplification of a system.

So your trying to tell me that if a game sells poorly then the devs will still get funding? What planet do you live on? We are talking about devs of mainstream games, not to belittle your work, rather than you yourself.What I said earlier still holds Your teacher analogy is spot on in that we also pay the salaries of teachers through tax. Aside from that they have no similarities. One we choose to buy the other we are forced to fund. If a dev comes and attacks gamers for criticising them when we pay their salary, which we do, showing no respect then they are out of order. Gamers pay their salary, they should treat us with bloody respect.

No.

I am saying that I still get paid if the game sells poorly. Thats the thing about working on a product that takes sometimes years to make and you are paid on a monthly basis. No matter how the game sell. I already got my money. So no you dont pay my salary.

I swear to god. I stated that I was not talking about you but of mainstream developers. You are not, this is fact not a derogative. I foyu cannot see that then you cannot read.

And you cannot understand that the developer doesn't get paid per copy sold. Welcome to a business that doesn't pay like waiting tables.

You know that is not what I am saying. I am saying that we buy their games and that good sales reflect in high funding and thus wages. That is fact,it is logic and it shows that we pay their wages. We are where the money comes from.