Dad Alters Donkey Kong for His Daughter - With Pauline as the Hero

[Frezzato]

snip

You're right. When Mike Mika modded Donkey Kong he was only doing what parents do, which is to say: anything and everything for their child.

His daughter is only three years old.
In retrospect I should have originally pointed that out.

 

[Sargonas42]

snip

You're right. When Mike Mika modded Donkey Kong he was only doing what parents do, which is to say: anything and everything for their child.

His daughter is only three years old.
In retrospect I should have originally pointed that out.

No worries

Not to mention, for a developer like Mike, re-engineering a 20 year old game is probably EASIER than trying to explain to her why she can't play as a girl!

 

[Darken12]

I've noticed a lot of "oh god feminism has run rampant and gone too far!" raging over this in some places. (not really here, but I mean the internet at large.) It's sad really, 'cause this couldn't be further from the truth. Mike is an acquainted of mine (albeit not a close one, I just know him as a college of a good friend of mine from Wired) and this was literally just a case of "Daddy can I be a girl?" followed by "Sure kiddo, why not! Just give me a day or two.". Super sweet, with no ulterior motive or message. Parenting at it's finest!

One reason I think this is getting so much more press than normal is that it happens to fall when it does within the whole "feminism bubble" going on right now because of Anita, and because Mike is actually well known in classic gaming circles.

I actually really dislike this attitude, because at the end of the day, it's still validating all the anti-feminist crap feminism has to put up with. Saying "no no guys, this awesome feminist thing has nothing to do with feminism! the person who did this wasn't a feminist! in fact, they never had a feminist thought in their heads! they just did it for X reason, I swear!" perpetuates the notion that feminism is always bad, always the enemy, and incompatible with things we can all sympathise with, like good parenting or love for your children.

Why can't we celebrate both things at the same time? Why can't we say "this is a great example of a father's love for his child" AND "this is a great moment for feminism"? Why do we have to systematically exclude feminism from any positive, harmless depiction of equality or female empowerment? By denying feminism association with positive things that harm nobody and make people happy, such as this game mod, we are supporting the idea that feminism only wants to destroy and harm, and that it is somehow incompatible with positive, harmless change.

 

[lapan]

Yeah, seriously. I hate the idea that, and I paraphrase:

"Everyone can relate to a male protagonist, but only women relate to a female protagonist."

That belief, held by SO many game producers (and producers of pretty much ALL media - this is why movies with female leads are (almost) always assumed to be directed at women while movies with male leads are assumed to be directed at everyone) is absoutely toxic and entirely incorrect. As noted by Toastiest Zombie and most other male gamers I've spoken with, most male gamers really don't care if their avatar is male or female.

I actually often prefer a female character to male musclehunks i can't relate to anyways.

 

[MagunBFP]

I've noticed a lot of "oh god feminism has run rampant and gone too far!" raging over this in some places. (not really here, but I mean the internet at large.) It's sad really, 'cause this couldn't be further from the truth. Mike is an acquainted of mine (albeit not a close one, I just know him as a college of a good friend of mine from Wired) and this was literally just a case of "Daddy can I be a girl?" followed by "Sure kiddo, why not! Just give me a day or two.". Super sweet, with no ulterior motive or message. Parenting at it's finest!

One reason I think this is getting so much more press than normal is that it happens to fall when it does within the whole "feminism bubble" going on right now because of Anita, and because Mike is actually well known in classic gaming circles.

I actually really dislike this attitude, because at the end of the day, it's still validating all the anti-feminist crap feminism has to put up with. Saying "no no guys, this awesome feminist thing has nothing to do with feminism! the person who did this wasn't a feminist! in fact, they never had a feminist thought in their heads! they just did it for X reason, I swear!" perpetuates the notion that feminism is always bad, always the enemy, and incompatible with things we can all sympathise with, like good parenting or love for your children.

Why can't we celebrate both things at the same time? Why can't we say "this is a great example of a father's love for his child" AND "this is a great moment for feminism"? Why do we have to systematically exclude feminism from any positive, harmless depiction of equality or female empowerment? By denying feminism association with positive things that harm nobody and make people happy, such as this game mod, we are supporting the idea that feminism only wants to destroy and harm, and that it is somehow incompatible with positive, harmless change.

It wasn't an awesome feminist thing, it was just an awesome thing andit actually had nothing to do with feminism... it was an awesome dad going something awesome for his daughter. Full stop, end of discussion. He wasn't doing it for any reason more then he wanted to give his daughter something special.

Saying that he didn't do it for feminist reasons doesn't say anything about the value of feminism and it definitely doesn't say feminism is bad, just that it wasn't involved. By saying this is a win for feminism (when it had nothing to do with it) you cheapen the actual message you should be getting out of this which was a little girl wanted to be the hero and her dad said ok, celebrate that without being co-erced or obligated to in anyway he saw no reason why Pauline couldn't be the one saving the day. Thats what the fight is about, congratulations you now have proof that society is changing.

 

[Darken12]

It wasn't an awesome feminist thing, it was just an awesome thing andit actually had nothing to do with feminism... it was an awesome dad going something awesome for his daughter. Full stop, end of discussion. He wasn't doing it for any reason more then he wanted to give his daughter something special.

That's exactly the attitude I'm talking about. It doesn't matter if the man did it out of feminism or not, we can still celebrate this as a step in the right direction for feminism in the videogame industry. But no, the attitude seems to be that associating this awesome act with feminism is somehow diminishing it, that we can't have both a great act of parenthood and a victory for feminism simultaneously.

 

[MagunBFP]

It wasn't an awesome feminist thing, it was just an awesome thing andit actually had nothing to do with feminism... it was an awesome dad going something awesome for his daughter. Full stop, end of discussion. He wasn't doing it for any reason more then he wanted to give his daughter something special.

That's exactly the attitude I'm talking about. It doesn't matter if the man did it out of feminism or not, we can still celebrate this as a step in the right direction for feminism in the videogame industry. But no, the attitude seems to be that associating this awesome act with feminism is somehow diminishing it, that we can't have both a great act of parenthood and a victory for feminism simultaneously.

So what you're saying is that regardless of if feminism has anything to do with it or not we should go yay feminism? If the man was religious could we also be going yay god even if god didn't tell him to do it? Riding on the tales of someone elses achievements doesn't make you any better, and not getting involved in something doesn't make you any worse. Can't this just be a thing without claiming that your cause was involved.

 

[Darken12]

So what you're saying is that regardless of if feminism has anything to do with it or not we should go yay feminism? If the man was religious could we also be going yay god even if god didn't tell him to do it? Riding on the tales of someone elses achievements doesn't make you any better, and not getting involved in something doesn't make you any worse. Can't this just be a thing without claiming that your cause was involved.

What's the problem with a religious person going "yay god" at this? If that's what they believe in, who are we to tell them they're wrong? Under their beliefs, god may well be responsible for what happened, and therefore it makes perfect sense for them to praise god for such an event. Just because I would never think of doing so doesn't mean I should begrudge them the act.

So, in short, if someone wants to take this as a victory for feminism (or god, or Cthulhu, or whatever else), let them. This is a very good thing for feminism, as it proves that we can have feminism in games without taking anyone's toys away or harming anything people care about. This does a lot to prove feminism can be a force of good in the industry, and that it's nothing to be afraid of.

 

[NightmareExpress]

I think it was a great gesture by a gaming parent to their child.
I wish my parents could do the same (not now, back then), but it looks like I'll have to be the one doing it for my kids.
Being tech savvy in the VG regard tends to depend on what era you're born.

That's what I've got to say about that.
Sans the Apophenia that will inevitably be spewed out (and already has).

 

[Darken12]

If the content creator said 'yay god' after doing something that is different than what you are doing.

This is like the pope saying 'yay god!' after an atheist did something. God was not in any way related to what the person did its just the church riding on the guys coat tails because its convenient.

Why does Feminism, or god, or Cthulhu need to take someone else's unrelated work as a victory? Cant they just stand on their own by their own merits without co-opting people that have no relation to them?

If an atheist did something to further religion (even inadvertently), I think the pope has a right to say "yay god" because the act itself has something to do with religion, even if the actor doesn't.

Also, nobody is saying that feminism can't stand on its own, what IS being said is that you can take examples like these to show the gamer community that feminism isn't a negative, harmful thing that wants to ruin videogames and fun. It's examples like this that can foster understanding between feminist gamers and the rest of the community by showing them that feminism can create positive things that increase fun and make videogames richer and more varied without harming anybody. Disassociating positive things like this one from feminism only serves to further the narrative that feminism is evil and out to destroy all you love.

 

[MagunBFP]

If the content creator said 'yay god' after doing something that is different than what you are doing.

This is like the pope saying 'yay god!' after an atheist did something. God was not in any way related to what the person did its just the church riding on the guys coat tails because its convenient.

Why does Feminism, or god, or Cthulhu need to take someone else's unrelated work as a victory? Cant they just stand on their own by their own merits without co-opting people that have no relation to them?

If an atheist did something to further religion (even inadvertently), I think the pope has a right to say "yay god" because the act itself has something to do with religion, even if the actor doesn't.

Also, nobody is saying that feminism can't stand on its own, what IS being said is that you can take examples like these to show the gamer community that feminism isn't a negative, harmful thing that wants to ruin videogames and fun. It's examples like this that can foster understanding between feminist gamers and the rest of the community by showing them that feminism can create positive things that increase fun and make videogames richer and more varied without harming anybody. Disassociating positive things like this one from feminism only serves to further the narrative that feminism is evil and out to destroy all you love.

If the athiest saved someones life, which doesn't actually have anything to do with religion, would the pope still be entitled to say "yay God"?

What did feminism actually do that was a part of this? For the record I am specifically asking for some direct involvment not along the lines of "feminism is out there and making things better for women so without it existing this couldn't have happened"

What twisted logic did you use to derive "good thing" - "feminism" = "perception that feminism is the devil"? Just you weren't apart of it doesn't say negative things about you. What does say negative things is the desperation you seem to be showing by saying that "feminism has to be able to claim this or you'll hate us"

 

[kailus13]

I think it was a great gesture by a gaming parent to their child.
I wish my parents could do the same (not now, back then), but it looks like I'll have to be the one doing it for my kids.
Being tech savvy in the VG regard tends to depend on what era you're born.

That's what I've got to say about that.
Sans the Apophenia that will inevitably be spewed out (and already has).

Sadly by saying this, you may be drawn into this debate. Thank you giving me a new word to learn though. (is your avatar a weetabix or a burlap sack?)

 

[Darken12]

If the athiest saved someones life, which doesn't actually have anything to do with religion, would the pope still be entitled to say "yay God"?

What did feminism actually do that was a part of this? For the record I am specifically asking for some direct involvment not along the lines of "feminism is out there and making things better for women so without it existing this couldn't have happened"

What twisted logic did you use to derive "good thing" - "feminism" = "perception that feminism is the devil"? Just you weren't apart of it doesn't say negative things about you. What does say negative things is the desperation you seem to be showing by saying that "feminism has to be able to claim this or you'll hate us"

You'll find that female characters in videogames have a lot to do with feminism- at least as far as feminism in gaming goes. I do not find that analogy accurate in the slightest.

Also, you completely missed the point of what I'm saying. I never claimed that feminism did anything (I readily acknowledged that the man's actions had nothing to do with feminism whatsoever), what I claimed was that this is a positive example of how feminism can improve the gaming industry without harming anybody. If a feminist did something like this for another game, we would have improved diversity in videogames without harming anybody. That's the entire point of what an example is, taking an instance or event and saying "see, we can do something like this".

As for the last paragraph, you are vastly overreaching with your tortuous rationale. Nobody said that "feminism has to claim this or you'll hate us." What was said was that this would be a great example of how feminism can improve the gaming industry without harming anybody. That's all.

 

[Epona]

This has nothing to do with feminism at all, the little girl wanted to imagine herself in the game so he made that possible. It was a nice thing to do and we don't need it ruined by feminist bashing or by using it as another ''games are sexist'' thing. This thread is going to degrade fast.

Actually it does have to do with feminism.

It shows how easy it is to make the feminists (like me) happy.

Seriously, this is it. Just make an option to switch the sprites and you have solved all of our problems with that game. It is just that easy.

It's also unreasonable

Oh No! My son has to play Heart of the Swarm as Kerrigan! Starcraft II, Blizzard and Activision are sexist!

...or is it only sexist when it happens to females?

 

[MagunBFP]

If the athiest saved someones life, which doesn't actually have anything to do with religion, would the pope still be entitled to say "yay God"?

What did feminism actually do that was a part of this? For the record I am specifically asking for some direct involvment not along the lines of "feminism is out there and making things better for women so without it existing this couldn't have happened"

What twisted logic did you use to derive "good thing" - "feminism" = "perception that feminism is the devil"? Just you weren't apart of it doesn't say negative things about you. What does say negative things is the desperation you seem to be showing by saying that "feminism has to be able to claim this or you'll hate us"

You'll find that female characters in videogames have a lot to do with feminism- at least as far as feminism in gaming goes. I do not find that analogy accurate in the slightest.

You'll also find that the Pope believes that God has alot to do with people that doesn't mean religion wins every time a life is saved, so the analogy is actually more accurate then you might have thought.

Also, you completely missed the point of what I'm saying. I never claimed that feminism did anything (I readily acknowledged that the man's actions had nothing to do with feminism whatsoever), what I claimed was that this is a positive example of how feminism can improve the gaming industry without harming anybody. If a feminist did something like this for another game, we would have improved diversity in videogames without harming anybody. That's the entire point of what an example is, taking an instance or event and saying "see, we can do something like this".

So we're agreed Feminism had nothing to do with what Mike did for his daughter. Nothing whatsoever. We also agree that this is an example of something Feminism could and should do. To claim it as a victory for Feminism though? Feminism did nothing to contribute to it at all, aspire to doing something like this by all means but don't try to say it was in the name of women and claim it as yours.

If a feminist did something like that it would be equally cool, and using this as an example of what you could do is fine, but claiming it and using it as an example are two different things

"this is a great moment for feminism"

...a victory for feminism...

So yes its something for Feminism to think about gettnig done, no its not a victory for Feminism because it wasn't done for you, or in your name, or even with your help

As for the last paragraph, you are vastly overreaching with your tortuous rationale. Nobody said that "feminism has to claim this or you'll hate us." What was said was that this would be a great example of how feminism can improve the gaming industry without harming anybody. That's all.

Yeah you kinda did...

Saying "no no guys, this awesome feminist thing has nothing to do with feminism! the person who did this wasn't a feminist! in fact, they never had a feminist thought in their heads! they just did it for X reason, I swear!" perpetuates the notion that feminism is always bad, always the enemy, and incompatible with things we can all sympathise with, like good parenting or love for your children.

Disassociating positive things like this one from feminism only serves to further the narrative that feminism is evil and out to destroy all you love.

 

[Darken12]

You'll also find that the Pope believes that God has alot to do with people that doesn't mean religion wins every time a life is saved, so the analogy is actually more accurate then you might have thought.

Nope. You will never convince me that something that is directly related to feminism in gaming is as vague and unrelated as the pope going 'yay god' when a random life is saved. Just nope. No sell. Not gonna dignify that travesty of an analogy with an inch of believability.

So we're agreed Feminism had nothing to do with what Mike did for his daughter. Nothing whatsoever. We also agree that this is an example of something Feminism could and should do. To claim it as a victory for Feminism though? Feminism did nothing to contribute to it at all, aspire to doing something like this by all means but don't try to say it was in the name of women and claim it as yours.

If a feminist did something like that it would be equally cool, and using this as an example of what you could do is fine, but claiming it and using it as an example are two different things

[...]

So yes its something for Feminism to think about gettnig done, no its not a victory for Feminism because it wasn't done for you, or in your name, or even with your help

More female characters in gaming is a victory for feminism, regardless of the reasoning behind it. This case might be a very tiny victory, but it's a victory nonetheless, because we're seeing something we strive towards.

Yeah you kinda did...

That is completely separate from the discussion of whether that's a victory for feminism or not. That is a personal critique I am making of the gamer community in general, more precisely of an attitude I often see in cases like this one.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

It's also unreasonable

Oh No! My son has to play Heart of the Swarm as Kerrigan! Starcraft II, Blizzard and Activision are sexist!

...or is it only sexist when it happens to females?

Once again, if you'd read any of my other comments in this thread, you'd know that I was only speaking about Retro games currently being released as Apps.

There are a lot of Damsel in Distress based games among retro titles, like Pauline in Donkey Kong. One very simple way to avoid a tidal wave of (unintentionally) sexist games is to just make which sprite you play as (and which one gets kidnapped) optional to each player, like this Dad did. That way both genders are shown to be capable of being the rescuer.

However, as to your final question there - yes, it is only sexist when it happens to females. Why? Because 95% of all games have a male protagonist. So switching a few to women is fixing an unbalanced scale, not attacking men. But I'm not even suggesting that, because in modern games the plot often relies more heavily on the gender of the main character due to voice acting and so forth. Dishonored wouldn't have worked with a female protagonist, for instance, for reasons I can't discuss due to spoilers for late game reveals.

Which is why I only said that this would be a good fix for all those re-released retro titles.

 

[Epona]

It's also unreasonable

Oh No! My son has to play Heart of the Swarm as Kerrigan! Starcraft II, Blizzard and Activision are sexist!

...or is it only sexist when it happens to females?

However, as to your final question there - yes, it is only sexist when it happens to females.

Here is the problem with feminists. You believe sexism only goes one way. It's just as bad as saying that only white people can be racist.

 

[charge52]

But the entire games media does not do that, not at all in fact. Many games have female leads or main characters such as . . . the final fantasy series, ghost in the shell, buffy (it had games), metroid, mirrors edge, mass effect, oni, perferct dark, silent hill, xena (had a game), streets of rage, golden axe, resident evil, portal, alice and gears of war to name a few.

Once again, I'm only addressing Retro games here. The games currently being revived and ported to portable devices of various sorts in App form. Games like Donkey Kong.

None of the games you listed - good games, mind - are retro games.

I would just like to point out that 4 of the games mentioned are retro games, and 5 others could be considered retro depending on your personal age for retro. Hell, if we count all the retro final fantasy and golden axe games , not just as 1, then 11 of the games listed are retro(only counting the three main golden axe games). If you are going to dismiss his examples, at least do some research so you know if your reason for dismissing them is blatantly wrong.