Dark Souls 2 is sadistic.

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Kopikatsu

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BreakfastMan said:
Kopikatsu said:
Sooooorry for the double post, but I got a question for the lot of yous.

Where are you, and what is your Estus Flask situation? Someone mentioned recently that they were at the Lost Bastille and only had two charges in their Estus Flask. Which was silly to me. SILLY.

Anyway, I currently have Estus Flask +2 (5). Just killed the Belfry Gargoyles in Lost Bastille.
I am derping around in Forrest of Fallen Giants and Heide's Tower of Flame with an Estus Flask +1 (4). All y'all seem to be way farther along than I am. XD
Naaah. There's a Sublime Bone Dust and Estus Flask Shard in Lost Bastille. So you're really only just the one area behind us, I guess.

There are two ways to get to Lost Bastille. You can go though No Man's Wharf (Which is after Dragonslayer) or by defeating the Pursuer (Which is after the Last Giant, where you said you were stuck on)
 

pspman45

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You have to land on the wooden platform things, you might not have enough HP, I was able to do it, but I did it much later, after I killed two of the "big" bosses.
so far, I've breezed my way through the bosses of Dark Souls 2, killing most of them on my first try. I do find myself getting stuck and essentially suiciding into the same scenario for hours at a time, but other than that its been much easier than my first run of Dark Souls 1
 

pspman45

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Kopikatsu said:
Sooooorry for the double post, but I got a question for the lot of yous.

Where are you, and what is your Estus Flask situation? Someone mentioned recently that they were at the Lost Bastille and only had two charges in their Estus Flask. Which was silly to me. SILLY.

Anyway, I currently have Estus Flask +2 (5). Just killed the Belfry Gargoyles in Lost Bastille.
I'm at 6 estus flasks +2, but I just killed the third "big" boss of the game, the ones where it says "big dude defeated" instead of "victory", so I might just be really far ahead of you
 

Kopikatsu

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pspman45 said:
Kopikatsu said:
Sooooorry for the double post, but I got a question for the lot of yous.

Where are you, and what is your Estus Flask situation? Someone mentioned recently that they were at the Lost Bastille and only had two charges in their Estus Flask. Which was silly to me. SILLY.

Anyway, I currently have Estus Flask +2 (5). Just killed the Belfry Gargoyles in Lost Bastille.
I'm at 6 estus flasks +2, but I just killed the third "big" boss of the game, the ones where it says "big dude defeated" instead of "victory", so I might just be really far ahead of you
Who are the first two named bosses? I don't remember seeing anything like that, but on the other hand, I honestly didn't pay much attention because I was too busy spamming the Warcry emote after killing a boss.
 

pspman45

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Kopikatsu said:
pspman45 said:
Kopikatsu said:
Sooooorry for the double post, but I got a question for the lot of yous.

Where are you, and what is your Estus Flask situation? Someone mentioned recently that they were at the Lost Bastille and only had two charges in their Estus Flask. Which was silly to me. SILLY.

Anyway, I currently have Estus Flask +2 (5). Just killed the Belfry Gargoyles in Lost Bastille.
I'm at 6 estus flasks +2, but I just killed the third "big" boss of the game, the ones where it says "big dude defeated" instead of "victory", so I might just be really far ahead of you
Who are the first two named bosses? I don't remember seeing anything like that, but on the other hand, I honestly didn't pay much attention because I was too busy spamming the Warcry emote after killing a boss.
I don't think there is a particular order to them, but the big dudes were the Giant, the sinner dude at the tower, a big two headed spider, and I just killed the guy from one of the trailers who is made of human bodies
 

Kopikatsu

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pspman45 said:
Kopikatsu said:
pspman45 said:
Kopikatsu said:
Sooooorry for the double post, but I got a question for the lot of yous.

Where are you, and what is your Estus Flask situation? Someone mentioned recently that they were at the Lost Bastille and only had two charges in their Estus Flask. Which was silly to me. SILLY.

Anyway, I currently have Estus Flask +2 (5). Just killed the Belfry Gargoyles in Lost Bastille.
I'm at 6 estus flasks +2, but I just killed the third "big" boss of the game, the ones where it says "big dude defeated" instead of "victory", so I might just be really far ahead of you
Who are the first two named bosses? I don't remember seeing anything like that, but on the other hand, I honestly didn't pay much attention because I was too busy spamming the Warcry emote after killing a boss.
I don't think there is a particular order to them, but the big dudes were the Giant, the sinner dude at the tower, a big two headed spider, and I just killed the guy from one of the trailers who is made of human bodies
Eugh. The Rotten.

How do you deal with Black Gulch? Eat a bunch of Common Fruit before going in or something?
 

Kopikatsu

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Seth Carter said:
Trollhoffer said:
To be absolutely fair, Dark Souls 1 only has the barest bones of a directed story -- the vast majority of the narrative meat is in the player's interpretations of what they observe in-game. I suspect a proper judgement can't be made until one is well into the game, far enough to have experienced enough content that lines begin to be drawn. The lore of both Demon's Souls and Dark Souls was a riddle with no true answer, and the story was nonlinear owing to its interpretive nature.

Basically, the best way to answer "is the lore or story good in Dark Souls 2?" is by measuring whether it asks you to interpret your observations or whether it serves literal lore up to you. The former is in character for the series and is where much of the praise comes from. That doesn't make the lore "good" in any of the games, but given the interpretive nature, players will tend to use interpretations that fall in line with their own tastes. But again, that takes time; any player needs both to experience content to contextualise the information provided, and to have to inclination towards interpretive lore in the first place.
In Dark Souls 1, by the same point, I had a relative idea of what to do, allegedly why I was doing it, and a vague direction of where to do it, and why I was an undead anyways. Not a damn clue who half these people were or anything, but the gist of some sort of narrative was established. In DS2, you're cursed, cause it says so. You go to Draegniaa, cause it said so. You must collect 4 mysterious souls, cause some chick of unestablished importance said so, to see the King, cause she told you to. Maybe it'll pick up in tonights session, but there's been no narrative hook, no indication of an objective given (I don't mean quest markers or anything, even a "Hey, you should seek the master of the caves") or established reason for why anything including my character is doing any of this. Also, unlike DS1, it hasn't even bothered to address the existence of the phantoms/other Hollow at all.
Well, I just recently learned why Drangleic is desolate and filled to bursting with the Undead. It's revealed that

The Queen of Drangleic is actually a reincarnation of Manus, Father of the Abyss. S/he manipulated the King and plunged Drangleic into darkness.

This is likely the reason for the 'Old Dragonslayer's' ultimate fate and explains how he was corrupted by the Abyss despite being (presumably) far away from Lordran or Oolacile when shit got serious.
 

Zac Jovanovic

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Kopikatsu said:
No, I'm not talking about the difficulty of the game.

In Majula, there is a large well with a bunch of very obvious items placed on various planks inside of it. Attempting to jump down the well will result in your immediate death. Right beside this well is a cat that sells a ring that supposedly lowers falling damage for 13400 souls. So, after a good 2-3 hours, I grinded the souls to be able to purchase this ring so that I could get at those sweet, sweet items (Even had to kill the White Knight in the Forest of Fallen Giants)

But the ring didn't help. The fall still instantly kills you even with no armor on. You probably need the Sorcery that does junk to fall damage. I am very the sads now.

You win this round, Dark Souls. (Let this be a lesson. Don't bother grinding for the cat ring).
There's a life lesson somewhere in there...
 

Tuxedoman

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Well I can't connect to the servers, so I guess I've been running 'hard mode' so to speak.

But my god. I spent so long in the first zone trying to work out where to go, not seeing the ladder that leads down towards the Last Giant next to the bonfire.

Have to say, im loving it so far. Although does anyone know what is up with those little molerat-dog things next to the manor in Majula? They are so... deadly for their size.
"Aw, you're cute little critters"
*Two of them jump me, shave off a fifth of my health and knock me back close to the well*
"O_O"
*One of them walks off the edge into the well and dies*

Thats the other thing, although there is a serious improvement to the old Dark Souls AI, im stilling getting a lot of random soul drops. One of which was from one of the turtle knights im sure. Maybe they will get a new brain in the next patch
 

Robyrt

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Just got the cat ring this morning and it was totally worth it. I'd estimate the initial fall does 1000 damage, so you'll need good armor and a few points in health as well as the ring. There are multiple damaging falls in there, but I'm a cleric so I just stocked up on heals. Some great loot, and of course a new area to explore :)

The Ruin Sentinels were super tough for me, because I'm used to two-handing whenever possible, and the stamina changes in DS2 make it very tough to dodge all their attacks and still do damage. I had to just turtle up and use the halberd one-handed to poke from afar. Not a very honorable victory, but I'll take it!
 

PrimitiveJudge

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I tried the 3 Sentinels as a mage with a NPC summon, fuck that. In fact those armored dude with the great swords leading to them were tough, so now I am cruzing through no mans warf. I like this place but I do not like those bleeding "things" with the long reach. Looking forward to getting on the pirate ship. Has anyone found a ember yet?

Oh and my estus flask I have 4 at +1, rarely use them since my ring's give me health regen and health per kill. Those of you looking for more cleric spells, the lady after the dragonslayer sells a bunch.
 

Kopikatsu

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PrimitiveJudge said:
I tried the 3 Sentinels as a mage with a NPC summon, fuck that. In fact those armored dude with the great swords leading to them were tough, so now I am cruzing through no mans warf. I like this place but I do not like those bleeding "things" with the long reach. Looking forward to getting on the pirate ship. Has anyone found a ember yet?

Oh and my estus flask I have 4 at +1, rarely use them since my ring's give me health regen and health per kill. Those of you looking for more cleric spells, the lady after the dragonslayer sells a bunch.
See, it was easy as a tank, haha. Just draw aggro and tank everything while the NPC Phantom spammed Greater Soul Arrow.

The pirate ship's boss is a little...strange. Probably easy as a Mage though. He'll get caught on the center pillar a lot, so you can just blast away with impunity I guess.

Anyone find a melee weapon better than the Drangleic Sword yet? I played around with the Pursuer's Ultra Greatsword and Giant Stone Axe for a while, but even that is far inferior to Drangleic. I'd really like to find a decent Ultra Greatsword to take advantage of my high strength and 100+ Poise, but...
 

pspman45

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Kopikatsu said:
pspman45 said:
Kopikatsu said:
pspman45 said:
Kopikatsu said:
Sooooorry for the double post, but I got a question for the lot of yous.

Where are you, and what is your Estus Flask situation? Someone mentioned recently that they were at the Lost Bastille and only had two charges in their Estus Flask. Which was silly to me. SILLY.

Anyway, I currently have Estus Flask +2 (5). Just killed the Belfry Gargoyles in Lost Bastille.
I'm at 6 estus flasks +2, but I just killed the third "big" boss of the game, the ones where it says "big dude defeated" instead of "victory", so I might just be really far ahead of you
Who are the first two named bosses? I don't remember seeing anything like that, but on the other hand, I honestly didn't pay much attention because I was too busy spamming the Warcry emote after killing a boss.
I don't think there is a particular order to them, but the big dudes were the Giant, the sinner dude at the tower, a big two headed spider, and I just killed the guy from one of the trailers who is made of human bodies
Eugh. The Rotten.

How do you deal with Black Gulch? Eat a bunch of Common Fruit before going in or something?
I just sprinted through, as long as I was in the middle of the hallway I never got hit because the projectiles take time to get there
 

Ishal

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Kopikatsu said:
PrimitiveJudge said:
I tried the 3 Sentinels as a mage with a NPC summon, fuck that. In fact those armored dude with the great swords leading to them were tough, so now I am cruzing through no mans warf. I like this place but I do not like those bleeding "things" with the long reach. Looking forward to getting on the pirate ship. Has anyone found a ember yet?

Oh and my estus flask I have 4 at +1, rarely use them since my ring's give me health regen and health per kill. Those of you looking for more cleric spells, the lady after the dragonslayer sells a bunch.
See, it was easy as a tank, haha. Just draw aggro and tank everything while the NPC Phantom spammed Greater Soul Arrow.

The pirate ship's boss is a little...strange. Probably easy as a Mage though. He'll get caught on the center pillar a lot, so you can just blast away with impunity I guess.

Anyone find a melee weapon better than the Drangleic Sword yet? I played around with the Pursuer's Ultra Greatsword and Giant Stone Axe for a while, but even that is far inferior to Drangleic. I'd really like to find a decent Ultra Greatsword to take advantage of my high strength and 100+ Poise, but...
I like the Drangleic sword. But damn if it doesn't drain my stamina quick when I two hand the thing. I'm trying to be hybrid build right now, even though I'm putting more into strength because of the boss weapons I plan on making later. I've been using the fire longsword and drangleic sword so far, along with a shortbow. I just got to Lost Bastille from No Man's Warf.

How do you go about getting those boss weapons?

I've heard you have to talk to an NPC. Is it just one person? Do you need any weapons scaled up beforehand like in DKS I? I'm thinking of getting the pursuer greatsword but right now I think the dragonrider halberd looks cool. The only other weapon I've seen that seems effective and fun at the same time has been the old knight halberd. I really like its move set. So far I've liked a lot of the pole weapons I've come across
 

Kopikatsu

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Ishal said:
Kopikatsu said:
PrimitiveJudge said:
I tried the 3 Sentinels as a mage with a NPC summon, fuck that. In fact those armored dude with the great swords leading to them were tough, so now I am cruzing through no mans warf. I like this place but I do not like those bleeding "things" with the long reach. Looking forward to getting on the pirate ship. Has anyone found a ember yet?

Oh and my estus flask I have 4 at +1, rarely use them since my ring's give me health regen and health per kill. Those of you looking for more cleric spells, the lady after the dragonslayer sells a bunch.
See, it was easy as a tank, haha. Just draw aggro and tank everything while the NPC Phantom spammed Greater Soul Arrow.

The pirate ship's boss is a little...strange. Probably easy as a Mage though. He'll get caught on the center pillar a lot, so you can just blast away with impunity I guess.

Anyone find a melee weapon better than the Drangleic Sword yet? I played around with the Pursuer's Ultra Greatsword and Giant Stone Axe for a while, but even that is far inferior to Drangleic. I'd really like to find a decent Ultra Greatsword to take advantage of my high strength and 100+ Poise, but...
I like the Drangleic sword. But damn if it doesn't drain my stamina quick when I two hand the thing. I'm trying to be hybrid build right now, even though I'm putting more into strength because of the boss weapons I plan on making later. I've been using the fire longsword and drangleic sword so far, along with a shortbow. I just got to Lost Bastille from No Man's Warf.

How do you go about getting those boss weapons?

I've heard you have to talk to an NPC. Is it just one person? Do you need any weapons scaled up beforehand like in DKS I? I'm thinking of getting the pursuer greatsword but right now I think the dragonrider halberd looks cool. The only other weapon I've seen that seems effective and fun at the same time has been the old knight halberd. I really like its move set. So far I've liked a lot of the pole weapons I've come across
There are two people who 'sell' boss weapons. In reality, they trade you for the boss weapons. The first guy, who does all the bosses up to Lost Sinner, is petrified at the top of Lost Bastille. Across from the bonfire where you can take the lift down to where Lost Sinner is. You need a branch of Yore to unpetrify him. You can get one after killing Lost Sinner in a chest or find one just outside the entrance to Black Gulch.

For boss weapons, he wants the soul itself and 1500 souls on top of that. But more than just weapons are available. He can turn the Rat Vanguard soul into a Toxic Mist Pyromancy spell and the Ruin Sentinel Soul into Heavy Soul Arrows.
 

Darkcerb

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So from what I've read of various peoples impressions the game is more open, more exploration...sounds like my kind of game the more open world a game sports the more I like it. I love DS 1 but it really felt like I was being pushed through a tube of toothpaste which was even more of a shame given the nature of the games lore.
 

thetoddo

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It's open, there's exploration, but if you're inexperienced with the game there is definately an "order" to do the areas in if you only want to get creamed instead of cheesed. (It's like getting creamed, but it lasts longer)
 

Rylot

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Kopikatsu said:
So today I decided to give melee another shot since I couldn't get past the Pursuer Knight with a mage. It's been going a lot better. I was doing a high endurance dex/str character but as soon as I saw the elite knight set I dumped everything into my carrying capacity (what ever that stat is called). Is it really worth it to kill the Pursuer Knight? What does he drop? I decided to skip him since I got so frustrated with my last character and I've made it past Heide's Tower and to No-Man's Wharf without much problem.
 

Kopikatsu

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Rylot said:
Kopikatsu said:
So today I decided to give melee another shot since I couldn't get past the Pursuer Knight with a mage. It's been going a lot better. I was doing a high endurance dex/str character but as soon as I saw the elite knight set I dumped everything into my carrying capacity (what ever that stat is called). Is it really worth it to kill the Pursuer Knight? What does he drop? I decided to skip him since I got so frustrated with my last character and I've made it past Heide's Tower and to No-Man's Wharf without much problem.
He drops the Ring of Blades (increases phsyical damage) and, of course, his soul.

But killing him opens the easier path to Lost Bastille. Of course, you could go in the back way through the No Man's Wharf and still end up in Lost Bastille.

Elite Knight's set? Are you calling the standard Knight set that, or is there actually an Elite Knight set that I missed?
 

sXeth

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Trollhoffer said:
I'll have to withhold complete judgement until I get my hands on Dark Souls 2, but I'm not really buying your point here. The way you describe the story sounds very similar in presentation to Demon's Souls, and not that far off Dark Souls. Except in Dark Souls, we can replace some of that text with "find two bells, because a mad person said so". I'm not seeing how the nonstory of Dark Souls 2 is worse than the nonstory of Demon's Souls or Dark Souls.
I think the best way to sum it up, is stakes. (As an aside, the lore served up in asides and item descriptions is a bit lower too).

By the end of the introduction, in DS1, you've had the origin/purpose of the fire/light sort of laid out. The light went out, and people started turning undead. Through various means (via the asylum in wherever you're from), the undead have all been pilgrimaging into the ancient land of the kings/gods, presumably to somehow relight the fire. The Hollow's are undead who have ditched the quest in madness or despair. Then the random guy tells you to go ring bells.

By a similar point in DS2, you are the only mentioned undead so cursed, you visit the witches/oracles (they're thus far unexplained), and they somehow send you to Dragneic, or were in Dragneic, since the area just kind of leads there without a portal/crow transition. The Hollows and Phantoms are there, but they aren't really delved into. The apparent stakes are that you'll turn into a mindless Hollow if you aren't cured, but there's nothing in the game that actually makes this into an impetus to move forward.

Dark Souls throws out a very loosely presented story, but the arcing narrative and purpose of moving forward is presented, even if just as a pointless macguffin (depending on whether you figure you succeeded at the end). DS2 says you're undead, go here, and just kind of dumps you in a sandbox.

Its not helped that the early part of the game doesn't exactly kick up the pace in gameplay either. You'll be up for an extended slog against the same boring (especially coming off DS1 and familiar with them and the combat) Hollow in what I guess is supposed to be the "more accessible entry point" part of the game, broken only by a very occasional elite/miniboss thats not much different. It takes quite a while (barring some chance of stumbling the right way) to throw the first real boss at you and get the pace moving.