DC Rebirth Closes New 52, Brings back pre-Flashpoint.

[circularlogic88]

DC UNIVERSE: REBIRTH #1 FULL SPOILERS LEAK

Okay that's a tad overly-presumptuous on my part, but they are slowly reintroducing pre New 52 characters and connecting "lost time" with Dr Manhattan of all people, which could be interesting.

I didn't care for the majority of the new 52. To me, the whole venture just seemed like recreating the Marvel Ultimate line except instead of that being a standalone universe in and of itself, they chose to make that the only continuity. I understand the need to draw in new readers without the baggage of having to play catch up, but it just seemed like they hadn't really planned it out very well and the whole "everything from the old continuity took place in the span of 5 years" and I'm digressing from the original point... I think I had one?

Ah well I don't know, so what I want to know is, how do you feel about this? Are you happy to see pre-Flashpoint continuity making its way back? Are you upset? What things did you like in particular from new 52? What things did you not like so much?

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Well that depends is the post-Final Crisis, pre-Flashpoint universe any better or worse then the New 52 itself?

Also DR MANHATTEN EXISTS IN THE MAINSTREAM DC UNIVERESE?

SO WATCHMEN EXISTS IN THE SAME SPACE AS SUPERMAN, BATMAN, AND WONDER WOMAN?!

Well fuck it I demand a Batman comic where Rorshach is his villain

 

[Captain Marvelous_v1legacy]

Meh. I'm not sad to see it go. There are definitely a few titles I liked, but overall the New 52 was pretty disappointing.

I liked Azzarello's Wonder Woman run, Snyder's Batman, Batman Eternal, Grayson, Simone's Batgirl run, Aquaman, Swamp Thing, Earth 2, Savage Hawkman, Captain Atom, Geoff Johns' Green Lantern, and Robin son of Batman

I did not like the new Wally West, Fletcher's Batgirl run(Babs Tarr's art doesn't help), The Finch couple's Wonder Woman run, Superman in general (Haven't read Lois and Clark yet), Teen Titans, and Deathstroke.

 

[mduncan50]

It's okay, in 5-10 years they'll completely switch up everything again. I get the desire to try to make things more simply for new readers, but it really ends up making everything so much more complicated in the end.

 

[Asita]

Well that depends is the post-Final Crisis, pre-Flashpoint universe any better or worse then the New 52 itself?

Also DR MANHATTEN EXISTS IN THE MAINSTREAM DC UNIVERESE?

SO WATCHMEN EXISTS IN THE SAME SPACE AS SUPERMAN, BATMAN, AND WONDER WOMAN?!

Well fuck it I demand a Batman comic where Rorshach is his villain

I...what? Wasn't one of the major premises of Watchmen that Dr. Manhattan was the only person with super powers since...ever? How does that fit with DC?

EDIT: Wait, I've got it. Dr. Manhattan left at the end of Watchmen and suggested that he might try making life elsewhere. Dr. Manhattan is the Life Entity!

 

[DefunctTheory]

Jesus Christ, I just read the link, and it's full blown retarded. Besides the fact that Watchmen falls apart on contact with any other super hero universe (There's hope, since it appears the connection is just speculation, though it appears well founded), it's just... ugh. Much like their movies, DC is trying to cram too much into their product, and their stories are straining under the weight of all this crap.

And I really don't like that they've changed it so that Flashpoint wasn't really caused by the Flash. That's just stupid.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Jesus Christ, I just read the link, and it's full blown retarded. Besides the fact that Watchmen falls apart on contact with any other super hero universe (There's hope, since it appears the connection is just speculation, though it appears well founded), it's just... ugh. Much like their movies, DC is trying to cram too much into their product, and their stories are straining under the weight of all this crap.

And I really don't like that they've changed it so that Flashpoint wasn't really caused by the Flash. That's just stupid.

DC Comic Books. Pissing everyone off since Crisis on Infinite Earths

At this point just forget it and read comic books that are just good from DC.

 

[Here Comes Tomorrow]

"Okay, so our movie universe isn't working, ideas?"

"When did we last exploit Watchmen?"

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

Canon Chaos Roundup in the DCU! Woohoo lets muddy the waters some more... fookin' crazy DC.

 

[Something Amyss]

I didn't care for the majority of the new 52. To me, the whole venture just seemed like recreating the Marvel Ultimate line except instead of that being a standalone universe in and of itself, they chose to make that the only continuity. I understand the need to draw in new readers without the baggage of having to play catch up, but it just seemed like they hadn't really planned it out very well and the whole "everything from the old continuity took place in the span of 5 years" and I'm digressing from the original point... I think I had one?

Well, yeah, that's kind of the problem. They decided to reboot the universe but only sort of rebooted it. Marvel's Ultimate line was a complete retelling of various characters, with the whole point being to introduce them without the baggage of decades of comic continuity. I personally thought the line mostly sucked, but it was sensible. With The New 52, you go in not knowing what counts and what has been retconned.

Though I think there were better stories done by authors within it. That was more the strength of the writers/artists, mind. Like, I'm not trashing individual books (though I hear some really sucked), just the general idea.

Skipping the spoilers, but...

Jesus Christ, I just read the link, and it's full blown retarded. Besides the fact that Watchmen falls apart on contact with any other super hero universe (There's hope, since it appears the connection is just speculation, though it appears well founded), it's just... ugh. Much like their movies, DC is trying to cram too much into their product, and their stories are straining under the weight of all this crap.

And I really don't like that they've changed it so that Flashpoint wasn't really caused by the Flash. That's just stupid.

Taht reaction doesn't exactly fill me with hope.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

Well that depends is the post-Final Crisis, pre-Flashpoint universe any better or worse then the New 52 itself?

Also DR MANHATTEN EXISTS IN THE MAINSTREAM DC UNIVERESE?

SO WATCHMEN EXISTS IN THE SAME SPACE AS SUPERMAN, BATMAN, AND WONDER WOMAN?!

Well fuck it I demand a Batman comic where Rorshach is his villain

Well why wouldn't he? He's basically a God.

One could argue Watchman, being owned by DC, is just another seperate universe in the Multiverse of DC.

Why WOULDN'T Dr Manhatten be able to cross over or even combine shit?

Also... hey whatever gives me more Roarshach, I'm down for.

 

[Diablo1099_v1legacy]

Well that depends is the post-Final Crisis, pre-Flashpoint universe any better or worse then the New 52 itself?

Also DR MANHATTEN EXISTS IN THE MAINSTREAM DC UNIVERESE?

SO WATCHMEN EXISTS IN THE SAME SPACE AS SUPERMAN, BATMAN, AND WONDER WOMAN?!

Well fuck it I demand a Batman comic where Rorshach is his villain

I...what? Wasn't one of the major premises of Watchmen that Dr. Manhattan was the only person with super powers since...ever? How does that fit with DC?

EDIT: Wait, I've got it. Dr. Manhattan left at the end of Watchmen and suggested that he might try making life elsewhere. Dr. Manhattan is the Life Entity!

.....Holy shit that actually kinda makes sense

Also, seconded for the Rorschach/Batman cross-over, those two are MADE for each other

 

[Christian Neihart]

DC Comics: Because burning the house down, skinning the pets, killing the parents, destroying the neighborhood, and so much more, just isn't good enough.

 

[Chaos Isaac]

And I really don't like that they've changed it so that Flashpoint wasn't really caused by the Flash. That's just stupid.

I'd actually say that it fixes more then a few plotholes, but i've only seen Flashpoint, which was some of the dumbest writing i've seen in my life. Running through time to cause ripples that fuck up everything wouldn't be fixed by doing the same thing again. It's like dropping a bomb to fix what another bomb did.

 

[DefunctTheory]

And I really don't like that they've changed it so that Flashpoint wasn't really caused by the Flash. That's just stupid.

I'd actually say that it fixes more then a few plotholes, but i've only seen Flashpoint, which was some of the dumbest writing i've seen in my life. Running through time to cause ripples that fuck up everything wouldn't be fixed by doing the same thing again. It's like dropping a bomb to fix what another bomb did.

The whole point of Flashpoint is that he's irreversibly affected the time line. Even when he goes back to prevent himself from messing up the time stream, it only 'kind of' fixes everything, and nothing is as it once was before all the time shenanigans. It's close enough that he's satisfied/can't distinguish the memories he has of both time frames, but it's not the same, which is exactly in line with how Flash time travel is shown to work.

 

[shrekfan246]

I really wish DC either knew what it was doing or had the stubbornness/confidence to stick to its guns anyway.

I've actually been largely enjoying the New 52, and it royally annoys me that they're already trying to roll over a new(/old) carpet to cover everything up since they've clearly decided that they're just out of their depth and aren't capable of cleaning up the mess they created.

This sort of thing is exactly why for the longest time I felt like comics were impenetrable. It's impossible to know when you should start reading, where you should jump in, what you should look out for, if you're inevitably going to end up needing to look into fifteen other books because of stupid crossovers, if what you end up following will survive from one month to the next, or even if the entire continuity you started reading will get blown up and then you're left lost and confused again.

I feel like this song perfectly encapsulates DC and Marvel:

 

[Kolby Jack]

Well that depends is the post-Final Crisis, pre-Flashpoint universe any better or worse then the New 52 itself?

Also DR MANHATTEN EXISTS IN THE MAINSTREAM DC UNIVERESE?

SO WATCHMEN EXISTS IN THE SAME SPACE AS SUPERMAN, BATMAN, AND WONDER WOMAN?!

Well fuck it I demand a Batman comic where Rorshach is his villain

I...what? Wasn't one of the major premises of Watchmen that Dr. Manhattan was the only person with super powers since...ever? How does that fit with DC?

EDIT: Wait, I've got it. Dr. Manhattan left at the end of Watchmen and suggested that he might try making life elsewhere. Dr. Manhattan is the Life Entity!

I don't know, I always thought the practical, real-world reason the Watchmen never intersected with the DC universe is because they are already stand-ins for established DC characters (Dr. Manhattan/Captain Atom, Rorschach/The Question, Night Owl/Blue Beetle, etc.) in the first place. Dr. Manhattan I suppose has transcended Captain Atom since Captain Atom isn't all-powerful, but the others don't really fit. DC already has enough headaches trying to differentiate Plastic Man and Elongated Man, and they have SIX human Green Lanterns now; I don't think there's much need for more duplicates.

I'm cautiously excited about the new line-up. I HATED the new 52, so I can't fully trust DC again, but the language they've used and the details they've released certainly seem like a strong step in the right direction. Who knows how it'll hold up, but I may buy in again if the initial buzz is good. It's a shame Wally West is still his new 52 version, but at least he's Kid Flash.

EDIT: Oh shit!

Spoiler

Old Wally West IS in Rebirth?! Inexplicably as Kid Flash, but remembering his entire life, including being the Flash?! Existing alongside New 52 Wally West?!

Oh GOD, I may be back in for the long haul if this sticks. Is this pandering? Maybe. But it's pandering to ME and I'm falling for it! WOOHOO!

 

[Damian Porter]

Hopefully they re-do Captain Marvel so his comic isn't garbage like the new 52 crap.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Hopefully they re-do Captain Marvel so his comic is garbage like the new 52 crap.

You want Shazam/Captain Marvel comic books to be as awful as his New 52 run?

(Have not read it so no comment)

 

[circularlogic88]

Hopefully they re-do Captain Marvel so his comic is garbage like the new 52 crap.

You want Shazam/Captain Marvel comic books to be as awful as his New 52 run?

(Have not read it so no comment)

I really enjoyed the Jeff Smith (Bone, RASL) Shazam, I felt his art style really captured the essence of Captain Marvel/Billy Batson. The New 52 Billy came of as kind of a little jerk.

Is Vertigo still around? Or did everything just get rolled into the DCU banner? I remember WildCats characters and Hellblazer made it into New 52, but I haven't been paying attention to whether or not it was because the Vertigo line was shuttere or not.