Dead Children and someone's not giving a s#!t...
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Basically they didn't mean any harm by that, the owners. They just figured it would be cheaper. Never in their heads did it occur to them that something bad might happen, and fucking the regulations meant more money on their pocket. Period.Singularly Datarific said:
Safety regulations are born every time there is a massive, high profile disaster in a country. Mexico seems to be a bit backward in this respect. There will be little restitution, but if the nation is actually not retarded, the people will act on the government, and the government will put together some sort of building codes.
Nightclub disasters are what led to the multiple exits and the "don't build stages with pyrotechnics out of paper mache" laws
Nightclub disasters are what led to the multiple exits and the "don't build stages with pyrotechnics out of paper mache" laws
The system could work. Really, it could - but for human fallibility.
Just as people feel terrible when little kids die, those in power also feel a very real need to benefit family members to the exclusion of others who may be more qualified to, say, build and run a daycare. Now, I'm not saying that this happens in Mexico any more than anywhere else, I'm just saying that it's hardly the system's fault. It is purely the fault of a) those in power who allowed shit like this to happen, b) the media for failing to notice what was going down in the daycare business, and c) the parents for not noticing that there weren't any emergency exits.
Now, I realize (and sympathize with) the fact that there was almost certainly no other options daycare-wise here for the parents, but come on - if you notice there aren't any emergency exits, and you fail to complain vocally enough to get it changed, (or if you don't even take the time to make sure there are emergency exits) you can't be this surprised when something bad happens.
As to the feelings people have for small children dying, it's a natural part of the social instinct humans have - it's perfectly beneficial evolutionarily, and if y'all want to know why, PM me and I'll tell you. This post is long enough as it is.
Just as people feel terrible when little kids die, those in power also feel a very real need to benefit family members to the exclusion of others who may be more qualified to, say, build and run a daycare. Now, I'm not saying that this happens in Mexico any more than anywhere else, I'm just saying that it's hardly the system's fault. It is purely the fault of a) those in power who allowed shit like this to happen, b) the media for failing to notice what was going down in the daycare business, and c) the parents for not noticing that there weren't any emergency exits.
Now, I realize (and sympathize with) the fact that there was almost certainly no other options daycare-wise here for the parents, but come on - if you notice there aren't any emergency exits, and you fail to complain vocally enough to get it changed, (or if you don't even take the time to make sure there are emergency exits) you can't be this surprised when something bad happens.
As to the feelings people have for small children dying, it's a natural part of the social instinct humans have - it's perfectly beneficial evolutionarily, and if y'all want to know why, PM me and I'll tell you. This post is long enough as it is.
My impression was that the regs are there, but nobody follows them, and they can get away with that through connections.thiosk said:
OT:Christ, that's horrible. And not just the tragedy itself, but also the government's reaction. Death toll of 47 and they can't even pretend to give a fuck?
When there Regulations being broken
And fires blazing
People dieing
Who you gonna call
Ghostbu OSHA!!!
Sorry, too much of that new game!!
And fires blazing
People dieing
Who you gonna call
Sorry, too much of that new game!!
First, it is the system's fault, because it was put forth there by people wishing for something to exploit. That's how things are done in here.GRoXERs said:
And, I'm aware that accidents because of negligence may not happen in Mexico more than in anywhere else, but the may because here people are way, way more negligent than in other countries. And also, here, is one of those places where the government just ignores you. For real.
As for the parents...man, I don't even know where to begin: Look, you are not in a third world country so you probably don't have a clue, and trust me when I tell you that you are better off that way, but those people just didn't think about it. Period. Was it dumb? yes. It was. But yet, you have to understand where these people are coming from:
They are poor, uneducated, and just trying to get by through the day. They are not saving to buy a plasma tv, a PC, internet, a cellphone, etc. They are just trying to get by. They buy milk, beef to eat, maize(corn) tortillas, pay bills, etc. Not that many luxuries, and they are used to it; and sadly, they are also complacent, very, very complacent. They know it doesn't work, and they are used to living in those conditions. And what exactly is it? Well, it is everything, unless it means charging you for stuff. Picture that in your head: Cops, libraries, fire department, safety regulations, health department, army, etc. It just doesn't work. It is there, but it can't do much when the chips are down. And so, the feeling is widespread throughout the population at large, and it's a fact of life that you have to put up with, and so you hope for the best.
I'm telling you, not even Obama has more hope than we do.
For example, unless you are rich or have some kind of influence, everyone just knows that you better not call the cops when unless way-off-the chart-bad-shit happens to you because you just don't know what you might get(maybe they end stop by and leave like nothing happened, or maybe they will try to get something from you to make sure your story "checks up", if you know what I mean). The police is there to contain the problem of society in general, and only acts when it really, really, really has to in order to mantain things just barely working. That is just one reason why 90% of all crimes in Mexico just go unreported.
In a way, Mexico would serve to prove that society, while not good, it's just not evil either. Because since it just does not work, we could just be fucking shit up like there is no tomorrow all over the place, and instead we just chill and we are like "Yup, another day at the office." Don't get me wrong, things are bad here, but it could be just so much worse.
Just think for a moment: What if there were no good cops, no good firemen, and no good army to contain a massive problem? Had the Los Angeles riots happened in Mexico, there would have been a masscre because the only way our government knows of dealing with really bad stuff between people is to quelch it with force. I tell you, my dad looks at the mess with Iran and he remembers the shit he had to put with during the sixties and the seventies.
No, no. You don't get it. The regulations are there. It's just that nobody follows them.thiosk said:
Are we a bit backwards? No. We are really backwards when it comes to following the regulations.
Will the government put forth some sort of building codes? They're already there but everyone mostly ignores them.
I would rather not discuss it, but I have been through the death of children. In my family no less. Do not assume otherwise. Just because I do not care, doesn't mean I do not have experience.unabomberman said:
Your speaking on behalf of other people. You yourself seem to have no experience in the death of younger people. You may argue being near this incident deems otherwise, but it does not.
When your younger brother dies, give me a call and I'll discuss this further.
First off, I'm impressed that you actually manage rallies where you live. The most that we manage here is some crazy old man who shouts at cars (This being the epitome of Canada).
Yeah, I'd agree that it's something to be pissed about, dead baby jokes were only funny because they were shockingly inappropriate, and when a baby actually dies anyone who laughs gets drawn and quartered. Even though this is all horribly tragic, I do think that taking things down a notch in the anger department won't hurt you. Your speech is very anger driven, and if that's how you always talk about it, many people aren't going to want to listen. You become the old man shouting at passing cars.
Yeah, I'd agree that it's something to be pissed about, dead baby jokes were only funny because they were shockingly inappropriate, and when a baby actually dies anyone who laughs gets drawn and quartered. Even though this is all horribly tragic, I do think that taking things down a notch in the anger department won't hurt you. Your speech is very anger driven, and if that's how you always talk about it, many people aren't going to want to listen. You become the old man shouting at passing cars.
Sparrow Tag said:
No dice. I'm not a moron, and I too know pain and what it looks like. Death is not the most godawful thing that can befall a family or a person, and guess what? People do grow up and they mature, and they figure their way around things because there is no other choice. I do know that from personal experience.
You are within your right to speak your piece as someone who has been there, but don't think for a moment you somehow have the monopoly in misery enough that it warrants you to be dismissive of other people experiencing bad shit so that nobody can tell you anything.
What you said was idiotic and I stand by that. You don't like it? Too bad. What I said was me being honest. If you say what you say, then you don't know any better, and that doesn't mean you haven't lived it.
EDIT:
Whoa, relax! I never said I managed any rallies. I was there doing my part being part of the bunch, but I never said I managed them. Or did you mean that in general?About To Crash said:
When there is a situation as the one I outlined there aren't many things to do left but whine, or are there? But yeah, I'm actually a pretty calm guy, and I your point's been noted, and much appreciated. But in all honesty I didn't really realize I was that angry.
unabomberman said:
May I ask, you say you've experienced the pain. Can I ask what happened?
Of course I don't mind if you don't want to share. I'm just curious.
(By the way, I'm not arguing. You seem like a respectable type, and you know what your on about. Plus, arguing usually doesn't get anyone anywhere)
Sparrow Tag said:
Okay.
First, I'm not gonna elaborate and I'd suggest that you don't do either for this be teh internets.
Second, I'm doing this because in here you already said your piece in the forum and not PM.
Okay, there it goes: My little case in not that unusual, and certainly not as harrowingly sudden as a berievement, which is your case. It was, quite simply, years of a really bad case of less than ideal upbringing circumstances which made it hard for everyone involved.
Was it that bad? I honestly can't tell in any deffinitive manner, but it felt bad enough, and let's face it, we kids tend to idealize things and they may or may not have been exactly as one remembers them, and to be honest, while there were hiccups along the way, I got used to it. As usual some got it harder than others, I guess, but that's just how things are. No biggie.
If life is not exactly a finely tuned machine people find it easier to focus around certain "specific" areas of said machine. Good thing is that that gets old very fast out of necessity.
Besides, what I've learned is that everyone has their own self-aggrandized version of their tragic lives in their heads(and good lord, let's not even mention the internet where everyone claims to be fucked up), but those dealing with real problems either act out, or not at all and just lay low. Really damaged people develop a strange criteria that non damaged people find it hard to put with.
It's not much but there you have it. I really don't know if that'll do it for you.
And I disagree, arguing does get you to a place where you at least know where someone else stands.
Also, while being called "respectable" strangely works as an ego boost, it does make me feel old. I'm 26 but daaamn...how old are you?
How about bereaved?
You had me believing you were a well spoken 16 year old with the mulitple usages of "daddy" and "kid".
Give it a few months and no one will care, at least not to a noticable level. Walking is just organized complacency in the end. The scenario of a burning darycare is a tame reason to reform a government, even the fire exit doesn't really guarantee anyone's survival. And the lack of healthcare education stems to other problems one would expect from a third world country. I don't understand rants sometimes.
Saying that walking is an organized form of complacency is complacent in itself so I won't even go there, you have some figuring out to do. Also, saying that the scenario of a burning daycare being a tame reason to reform things is also misinformed and just plain conceited. Give me a break. I explained that the burning of the daycare is but a symptom of a much bigger problem but oh, well...apparently living in a thrid world country means I have to put up and shut up.atol said:
Just because you have an opinion and know how to trivialize does not mean it is an educated one.
Indeed you do not understand rants.
P.D: As for my usage of "daddy," it was me trying to be funny. No one my age really says anything resembling to "me daddy," and it is in fact just gramatically wrong.
And just as a cultural fact: bereaved is a general term that signifies the death of a loved one. Go ahead and find one that describes a parent that has lost his/her child.
Ok, gonna play the devil's advocate here and say that thousands of people die every day from preventable causes and you're pissed off at under 50 dead kids? Call me all the names you want but it doesn't change the fact that the world as a whole is not any worse off than it was before the kids died. It was sad they died but what do you want the government to do? It's not like they can bring the kids back to life and even if you do bring some reform to the system (you aren't gonna get much if you get any at all) accidents are still gonna happen and it's not like making few reforms is gonna change that. Besides, the government has 109,955,400 people to watch out for and SIGNIFICANTLY bigger problems to deal with. So, go ahead with your moral outrage, but the world isn't gonna care. They have no reason too.
