Dead Children and someone's not giving a s#!t...

[quack35]

Too long sorry.

Then why would you even post?

 

[Anarchemitis]

I'd like to praise your conviction, but I'm too tired to read all of that.

You could have just written "Babies died. Bad?" And yes, it is horrible.

To reiterate; Dead babies = horrible, Me = tired.

The epitome of internet culture.

We have so successfully blurred the minds distinction of Doing something and watching something.

If a guy had certifiable proof that he would make AIDS and Cancer simply disappear if he had a few donations of money, we would laud him for his work, and then mill about on another forum without moving 20 muscles.

 

[fulano]

Ok, gonna play the devil's advocate here and say that thousands of people die every day from preventable causes and you're pissed off at under 50 dead kids? Call me all the names you want but it doesn't change the fact that the world as a whole is not any worse off than it was before the kids died. It was sad they died but what do you want the government to do? It's not like they can bring the kids back to life and even if you do bring some reform to the system (you aren't gonna get much if you get any at all) accidents are still gonna happen and it's not like making few reforms is gonna change that. Besides, the government has 109,955,400 people to watch out for and SIGNIFICANTLY bigger problems to deal with. So, go ahead with your moral outrage, but the world isn't gonna care. They have no reason too.

Ooh, big man...

First of all: paragraphs, good sir. Paragraphs.

Second: You don't know me, for if you did you'd know that your comment is more amusing to me than it is offensive. So no moral outrage here. Just pity.

Also, news just in say that today the government has decided to sue our state's government over this thing for, wait for it, negligence. So, heads will roll in an attempt to appease the populace, and who knows what will follow from here.

I'm sure you'll one day outgrow your comfortable I-don't-give-a-shit-nothing-we-do-matters phase because, honestly, one day you'll realize how silly it makes you look.

Have a good day.

 

[vampirekid.13]

i dont understand what you expect to happen?

i mean, sure the no emergency exits was "negligent" however im sure that what started the fire was an accident.

i didnt quite understand what exactly people are rallying for.

the rallies and so on wont bring the victims back, the building is burned down...

if you are saying you are rallying because the kids are not getting send to the US for treatment then i understand...but you really dont give a reason for the "rallying"

 

[Screens]

i dont understand what you expect to happen?

i mean, sure the no emergency exits was "negligent" however im sure that what started the fire was an accident.

i didnt quite understand what exactly people are rallying for.

the rallies and so on wont bring the victims back, the building is burned down...

if you are saying you are rallying because the kids are not getting send to the US for treatment then i understand...but you really dont give a reason for the "rallying"

I'm pretty sure that the rioters (can't think of a better word) know that rioting won't return the children to life. I'm also pretty sure they know this happened because of the "negligence" of the moronic government. They're rallying because they hope that they can bring change so that something like this doesn't happen again. Yes, I'm pretty sure that the fire was an accident, but the entire mess could have been avoided, if it weren't for the genii staffed in the OP's state.

 

[WorldCritic]

Tragic.

 

[fulano]

i dont understand what you expect to happen?

i mean, sure the no emergency exits was "negligent" however im sure that what started the fire was an accident.

i didnt quite understand what exactly people are rallying for.

the rallies and so on wont bring the victims back, the building is burned down...

if you are saying you are rallying because the kids are not getting send to the US for treatment then i understand...but you really dont give a reason for the "rallying"

Actually I did give a reason for the rallying: People were pissed. They didn't need anything more. Now things are more geared towards something more concrete, as I'll outline below.

The Expectations to hold accountable the people who owned the daycare and bypassed the regulations, the people who issued said regulations at the state level, a reform in the way the daycare system is outlined in our state, and political fallout to fall like thick bricks on our governor's head isn't really that much to ask, or is it? While I'm typing it's already begun to happen already, and the government is moving forth to try to deal with this thing(finally).

Fact is the law was bypassed. If a place doesn't meet safety regulation you don't issue a permit. As easy as that. And, permits were issued.

I'm not an idiot, and I do not hundred percent expect to get everything outlined above, and I don't know what you think, but I can safely tell you that nobody's expecting to get anyone back. What people want is for things to proceed with due process. Is it too much to demand for the rule of law to be applied the way it is suposed to?

Just this afternoon, a girl whose mom happened to be at the rally I went to, and diagnosed as brain dead finally got her plug pulled. I'm not trying to tuck at people's heart strings here, all I'm saying is that we, as a population, deserve better. Why should we put with this kind of nonsense?

Would you?


EDIT:

i dont understand what you expect to happen?

i mean, sure the no emergency exits was "negligent" however im sure that what started the fire was an accident.

i didnt quite understand what exactly people are rallying for.

the rallies and so on wont bring the victims back, the building is burned down...

if you are saying you are rallying because the kids are not getting send to the US for treatment then i understand...but you really dont give a reason for the "rallying"

I'm pretty sure that the rioters (can't think of a better word) know that rioting won't return the children to life. I'm also pretty sure they know this happened because of the "negligence" of the moronic government. They're rallying because they hope that they can bring change so that something like this doesn't happen again. Yes, I'm pretty sure that the fire was an accident, but the entire mess could have been avoided, if it weren't for the genii staffed in the OP's state.

Eh, excuse me, but you got it wrong. We were not rioting, we were rallying. People were going bonkers, and there was some mob mentality seething in, but nobody tumbled cars over, or burn anything, or hit anyone, or even throw anything at anyone, etc.

Besides people shouting obscenities they were quite pacific.

The correct term would be protesters.

But yes, angry people can turn into rioters but it just hasn't happened here yet, and hopefully wont.

 

[Screens]

Like I said, couldn't think of a better term.

 

[fulano]

Like I said, couldn't think of a better term.

And I hear you, I'm not jumping on you or anything. But rioters definitely has some weight to it, you know, and not all of it is good.

I'm just saying.

 

[atol]

Saying that walking is an organized form of complacency is complacent in itself so I won't even go there, you have some figuring out to do. Also, saying that the scenario of a burning daycare being a tame reason to reform things is also misinformed and just plain conceited. Give me a break. I explained that the burning of the daycare is but a symptom of a much bigger problem but oh, well...apparently living in a thrid world country means I have to put up and shut up.

Just because you have an opinion and know how to trivialize does not mean it is an educated one.

Indeed you do not understand rants.

P.D: As for my usage of "daddy," it was me trying to be funny. No one my age really says anything resembling to "me daddy," and it is in fact just gramatically wrong.

And just as a cultural fact: bereaved is a general term that signifies the death of a loved one. Go ahead and find one that describes a parent that has lost his/her child.

I'm saying the government is going to look at is as complacency, and that nothing will come of it. Besides, whether or not it's complacent to state it's complacent has no effect on the point. I realize the daycare incindent is more of a symptom, but what the hell do you want? Do you even know? Should I pat your back, or head down there and reform your whole society for you? The world is fucked up, you know this. Even if things worked when the chips were down, as you put it, babies will still die. I call it a tame reason, because Hermosillo will move on.
Honestly, you seem to attack anyone that even distantly disagrees with you. And anyone that would agree with you can't say anything that isn't extremely immaterial and pointless - "Cool story, bro." That is why I don't understand rants, especially of this nature.

The bereaved thing was a joke, as you inadvertently described them when you used that adjective. Also, I'm rather surprised you haven't been banned yet.

 

[vampirekid.13]

i dont understand what you expect to happen?

i mean, sure the no emergency exits was "negligent" however im sure that what started the fire was an accident.

i didnt quite understand what exactly people are rallying for.

the rallies and so on wont bring the victims back, the building is burned down...

if you are saying you are rallying because the kids are not getting send to the US for treatment then i understand...but you really dont give a reason for the "rallying"

Actually I did give a reason for the rallying: People were pissed. They didn't need anything more. Now things are more geared towards something more concrete, as I'll outline below.

The Expectations to hold accountable the people who owned the daycare and bypassed the regulations, the people who issued said regulations at the state level, a reform in the way the daycare system is outlined in our state, and political fallout to fall like thick bricks on our governor's head isn't really that much to ask, or is it? While I'm typing it's already begun to happen already, and the government is moving forth to try to deal with this thing(finally).

Fact is the law was bypassed. If a place doesn't meet safety regulation you don't issue a permit. As easy as that. And, permits were issued.

I'm not an idiot, and I do not hundred percent expect to get everything outlined above, and I don't know what you think, but I can safely tell you that nobody's expecting to get anyone back. What people want is for things to proceed with due process. Is it too much to demand for the rule of law to be applied the way it is suposed to?

Just this afternoon, a girl whose mom happened to be at the rally I went to, and diagnosed as brain dead finally got her plug pulled. I'm not trying to tuck at people's heart strings here, all I'm saying is that we, as a population, deserve better. Why should we put with this kind of nonsense?

Would you?


EDIT:

i dont understand what you expect to happen?

i mean, sure the no emergency exits was "negligent" however im sure that what started the fire was an accident.

i didnt quite understand what exactly people are rallying for.

the rallies and so on wont bring the victims back, the building is burned down...

if you are saying you are rallying because the kids are not getting send to the US for treatment then i understand...but you really dont give a reason for the "rallying"

I'm pretty sure that the rioters (can't think of a better word) know that rioting won't return the children to life. I'm also pretty sure they know this happened because of the "negligence" of the moronic government. They're rallying because they hope that they can bring change so that something like this doesn't happen again. Yes, I'm pretty sure that the fire was an accident, but the entire mess could have been avoided, if it weren't for the genii staffed in the OP's state.

Eh, excuse me, but you got it wrong. We were not rioting, we were rallying. People were going bonkers, and there was some mob mentality seething in, but nobody tumbled cars over, or burn anything, or hit anyone, or even throw anything at anyone, etc.

Besides people shouting obscenities they were quite pacific.

The correct term would be protesters.

But yes, angry people can turn into rioters but it just hasn't happened here yet, and hopefully wont.

ok, so you are rallying to make a change and install emergency escape paths in daycares, as well as other protection so this doesnt happen again, that makes sense, i just didnt quite get that from the first post.

well good luck, and hopefully someone does something about it.

 

[Imat]

I'm always skeptical of people's views toward the death of younger people. Is there such a difference between 17 and 18 years of age? A teenager dies, and we're up in arms. An 18 year old dies, and it's just another tally on the board.

I think people feel sorry for the death of younger people, because everyone else does. Just being a big old flock of sheep. Or hey, I could just be a non-emotional bastard.

Make yourselves feel better and go with the second option.

I don't know where you live but where I'm from, when anybody dies no matter their age a shitstorm happens. You just entertain a contrarian view out of the luxury of your own circumstances, I'm afraid.

So, no. You're not being a non-emotional bastard. You're just being an idiot and you just haven't been there and don't know beter, and that's perfectly fine if you are fine with it. Nobody's forcing you to think otherwise.

No, he's right. Not completely right, but mostly right. We do generally despise all deaths, which is kinda silly, but we tend to focus more on the youth. Also silly. I believe the logic is that the youth has more of their lives ahead of them, whereas each year of life is full of experiences and therefore means you've led a more "complete" life.

But again, that's an entirely silly notion. Sure, one of these kids could grow up to be some cancer-curing genius, but odds are it'll become a low-middle class wage earner, struggling to make it in life. We have plenty of those already. On the other hand, when a genius gets killed we're guaranteed to lose a genius. We don't have anywhere near enough of those. Given the choice, I'd rather go for the sure shot, but I'm sure most if not all of the world would disagree.

And despising death is also pretty silly. I'm not saying the world is overpopulated, or is even likely to become so in the next thousand years or so, but we certainly have enough competition for truly great jobs as is. You say callous disregard for human life, I say Survival of the Fittest and Natural Selection. It works. And before you call me an insensitive loser, I like the way I think, and I'm gonna stick to it.

 

[Anarchemitis]

I'd like to praise your conviction, but I'm too tired to read all of that.

You could have just written "Babies died. Bad?" And yes, it is horrible.

To reiterate; Dead babies = horrible, Me = tired.

The epitome of internet culture.

We have so successfully blurred the minds distinction of Doing something and watching something.

If a guy had certifiable proof that he would make AIDS and Cancer simply disappear if he had a few donations of money, we would laud him for his work, and then mill about on another forum without moving 20 muscles.

You say that like there's something wrong with it.

You say that as if anything ever done by anyone exists solely for your amusment.
Ass.

 

[sallene]

So wait, the rally is for better designed "day-cares"?

and most of the burned were babies/toddlers?


Correct me if I am wrong, but even if there were emergency exits to begin with and a fire started, who would have gotten all those babies out unless there are an equal number of workers there?

By definition its a tragedy, sure. But I think people might be letting emotion clog some of the logic in this whole thing.


What if there were emergency doors but the workers could only get a fraction of the children out before the rest were severely burnt/overtaken by the flames?

I know tragedy spurrs inmprovement but I have a feeling from readin OPs rant and the articles that people have an unrealistic viewpoint of how the tradedy might have unfoled if there had been emergency exits.



Edit - Also, why would it be up to the US to take care of this? beyond providing humanitarian aid in this instance, I would think it would be more of an outrage beyond the emergency door issue that there isnt enough highly trained medical personel with expereince to treat burn victims.

 

[fulano]

Saying that walking is an organized form of complacency is complacent in itself so I won't even go there, you have some figuring out to do. Also, saying that the scenario of a burning daycare being a tame reason to reform things is also misinformed and just plain conceited. Give me a break. I explained that the burning of the daycare is but a symptom of a much bigger problem but oh, well...apparently living in a thrid world country means I have to put up and shut up.

Just because you have an opinion and know how to trivialize does not mean it is an educated one.

Indeed you do not understand rants.

P.D: As for my usage of "daddy," it was me trying to be funny. No one my age really says anything resembling to "me daddy," and it is in fact just gramatically wrong.

And just as a cultural fact: bereaved is a general term that signifies the death of a loved one. Go ahead and find one that describes a parent that has lost his/her child.

I'm saying the government is going to look at is as complacency, and that nothing will come of it. Besides, whether or not it's complacent to state it's complacent has no effect on the point. I realize the daycare incident is more of a symptom, but what the hell do you want? Do you even know? Should I pat your back, or head down there and reform your whole society for you? The world is fucked up, you know this. Even if things worked when the chips were down, as you put it, babies will still die. I call it a tame reason, because Hermosillo will move on.
Honestly, you seem to attack anyone that even distantly disagrees with you. And anyone that would agree with you can't say anything that isn't extremely immaterial and pointless - "Cool story, bro." That is why I don't understand rants, especially of this nature.

The bereaved thing was a joke, as you inadvertently described them when you used that adjective. Also, I'm rather surprised you haven't been banned yet.

Oh, man. Where to begin?

Now, whet else? Ah, yes. You are right. I do not know what I want, and yes, you should pat my back...please? Also, yes, I want you to come in and reform my society, right now for I fear what it would turn into without you.

And you've convinced me. This world is indeed fucked up and I should do nothing about it because even if I do my best babies will still die so, yes, you are absolutely right, I don't know what I was thinking. It is indeed a tame reason. How could I be so blind?

I've also realized I'm a nutjob for bothering to defend my argument, and that all I wanted from the beginning was for somebody to say cool things about me, and to praise me from being so socially committed but I ended up with extremely immaterial and pointles comments that cannot fill my shallowness.

Your argument cut me deep and it went straight to my heart. I'm in shambles now and I can't find the words to fight back...

I love you atol. You just changed my life... ...and made me lol in the process.

Oh, and one last thing: You should think about complacency...hard.

So wait, the rally is for better designed "day-cares"?

and most of the burned were babies/toddlers?


Correct me if I am wrong, but even if there were emergency exits to begin with and a fire started, who would have gotten all those babies out unless there are an equal number of workers there?

By definition its a tragedy, sure. But I think people might be letting emotion clog some of the logic in this whole thing.


What if there were emergency doors but the workers could only get a fraction of the children out before the rest were severely burnt/overtaken by the flames?

I know tragedy spurrs inmprovement but I have a feeling from readin OPs rant and the articles that people have an unrealistic viewpoint of how the tradedy might have unfoled if there had been emergency exits.

Edit - Also, why would it be up to the US to take care of this? beyond providing humanitarian aid in this instance, I would think it would be more of an outrage beyond the emergency door issue that there isnt enough highly trained medical personel with expereince to treat burn victims.

Problem was that the daycare wasn't that big a place and it was clogged with kids, not to mention the workers. The problem could have been extremely minimized had there been emergency exits, for sure, but when you have a place full of people and only one exit, and it's not even that big, you are bound to run into trouble. Besides, The whole thing took five or seven mitues, tops.

For sure. People are letting emotion cloud their judgment as is expected when something like this happens. The first two rallies were basically people screaming, and until later did actual lawyers begun to get involved and so this thing is taking a more directed approach, now.

It's instinct. When young people die you just go into overdrive and in this case the majority were just babies/toddlers. Add to that a growing mentality of distance from the government at large and you have the recipe for disaster.

As of today 7 people are already in custody, so there you go, stuff is being done out of need to minimize potential political fallout, but still, stuff is being done.

I get the feeling that some people here just get annoyed at me constantly hammering this and they try point out to me the fact that I'm really worked up about this more than I should, and that I should see it from a more realistic place. And yet you got to understand that context means everything, and it isn't so easy to just go utilitaristic on the whole thing.

I am indeed interested in what people think in here for the simple reason thet most of you live under different systems wether they be social or government-wise. If you don't care for it or think I'm a self serving idiot then, by all means, just ignore me and go about your day.

If you feel you have something bto say then do go ahead, and I will most likely reply and, like all things, you may or may not like it.

Some folks don't seem to get that while this is indeed about dead children it is about a social problem. If you find this too murky or contrived and prefer to talk about wii or xbox, or ps3, then go forward and have fun, and that's awesome too.

What I'm trying to say is that this really engaging to me, and while I may not agree with all of you I do learn something from this.

 

[Soxafloppin]

i feel for those kids. completely scarred. People are going to stare at them and treated them like there disabled.

 

[sallene]

Some folks don't seem to get that while this is indeed about dead children it is about a social problem. If you find this too murky or contrived and prefer to talk about wii or xbox, or ps3, then go forward and have fun, and that's awesome too.

What I'm trying to say is that this really engaging to me, and while I may not agree with all of you I do learn something from this.

No worries. I get where you are coming from, and that this is more of a social quagmire but like I said, I think that(hopefully) as emotions calm down from this that more rational thought will prevale and it will spurr improvements that arent just mean to appease the masses but actually fix the problems.

Thoughout history there various governments around the world have used token gestures to calm an outraged public and the sad thing is it has worked.


The place I was coming from was one of thoughtful detachment. If people are goign to rally for something to be fixed, they should make sure they are fixing the real problem and not just a symptom of said problem.