Death to the Mana Bar!

[Nieroshai]

Balance, and something David Eddings calls "the Will and the Word." In his book about writing the Belgariad, he says magic should be limited by the mental fortitude of the wielder or else every mage will be a god, and the constant use off magic would realistically be very mentally straining. In other words, you can say the incantations as much as you want, but unless you have enough mental fortitude or focus (the mana bar) you can't cast.

 

[Bugerion]

I prefer the mana bar to the D&D system of "You can use X number of spells per day, you run out, oh well, good thing wizards have such high STR and CON right? Oh... you don't? Sorry"

Well you have to admit that in those games like BG2 spells are owerpowered and I find it better that way because you need to chose carefully how to and where to cast spells not just spam like a moron

 

[Zeekar]

OP

Can't really agree with this. There is no point in having a party if you are all powerful. RPGs are generally based around the party system so magic users would just be broken in that context.

 

[ZeroMachine]

"I don't know how to play a mage right and I suck at it, so I want them buffed to unfair levels."

Anyone else read that? Sorry, OP, but it honestly just sounds like you're not that good at being a mage.

You want unlimited god powers, go cheat in Oblivion or something. We like challenge in our games, and playing a mage presents a damn fun one if you know what you're doing.

I've always thought the mana bar should be replaced by a fatigue system. Like, the more spells you cast in a row, the tireder you'll get, and the weaker you'll spells will be. That would make more sense to me.

And yeah, I clicked here cause I thought you were talking about Yahtzee's bar. Good to see I wasn't the only one!

That's actually a pretty awesome idea... also, your avatar is fuckin' sick, if a little contradictory

What's contradictory about it? It clearly represents a multi-national company dedicated to preserving humanities existance, but instead of killing their enemies, they capture them for testing! All in the name of science! Pretty straight-forward!

That's not the Abstergo symbol... that's the Assassin symbol. The group that would be against the multi-national company...

The multi-national part was refering to Aperture. I can't remember if it specifically tells you they're multi-national, but judging by the size of the place in Portal 2, they probably are!

Hm, good point. Guess it's just that, the way I see it, Aperture and Cerberus seem to be a bit against what the Assassin's order stands for. Aperture would be helping Abstergo if anything.

Doesn't take away from the fact that the combination of logos looks awesome beyond all measure. Just my AC fanboy talking

Heh, thanks. I can see where you're coming from, but I think they're all kinda working for the same goal. The Assassin's want to save humanity by fighting the Templars. Cerberus, obviously, fighting for humanity against practically everything else! And Aperture is the crazy one who comes up with mad inventions to "help" us!

But hey! Like you said, we're reading too much into it. They're three awesome games. That's what's important!

Hell yeah. *high five*

 

[JMeganSnow]

OP

Can't really agree with this. There is no point in having a party if you are all powerful. RPGs are generally based around the party system so magic users would just be broken in that context.

RPG's like Morrowind, Oblivion, Gothic, Diablo, Titan Quest? There are just as many RPG's (or shoot and loot games at least) where you're all by your lonesome as ones where you have a party. Most PEN AND PAPER games are based around a party dynamic because, well, they're supposed to be a social activity. But I've seen gaming groups that were only 2 people, a GM and a single player. It feels a bit weird, though, because the GM spends half the time talking to himself like some sort of crazy person.

 

[JMeganSnow]

I prefer the mana bar to the D&D system of "You can use X number of spells per day, you run out, oh well, good thing wizards have such high STR and CON right? Oh... you don't? Sorry"

Well you have to admit that in those games like BG2 spells are owerpowered and I find it better that way because you need to chose carefully how to and where to cast spells not just spam like a moron

Or you just need to rest after almost any fight. That works too.

Dungeons and Dragons Online is a MUCH better implementation of the D&D PnP to CRPG thing. It's not perfect (PvP is a JOKE. Clerics pwn everyone. You can't kill them except with a massive spell critical, and they can one-shot everyone with searing light because *nothing* blocks that spell), but it's far better than anything that's come out thus far. However in questing and raids and so forth, everyone has a role and can do their own cool stuff. Also, unlike WoW, you aren't stuck with just one role (or two) predetermined by your class and spec--everyone can manage to do enough of everything to finagle their way though a tough spot. It's a lot of fun.

 

[babinro]

I like the idea of unlimited castings where the trade-off is conjuration time.

Make it take .5 seconds to cast a ray of frost, and 2.0 seconds to cast a fireball. 10 seconds to raise an area of dead.

 

[=HCFS=Discoman]

As a dedicated RPG fan, you should know that the limitations on spellcasting goes back to the RPG source: Dungeons and Dragons. And second, Tolkien's universe what exceptionally high-magic. Gandalf does not bust out massive spells. Here's an article noting that he's probably only 5th level:

http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=7338

If you want a game where you can destroy everything and have no limits (and therefore no challenges), you'll probably have to make it yourself.

garrysmod maybe?
of course, you'd need to code the overpowered magic weapons/spells/whatever.

 

[Geo Da Sponge]

I prefer the Dark Heresy system. Unlimited 'magic' (psychic) powers, but every time you use one there is a small chance you'll tear reality asunder which increases with the more power you put into it.

 

[Gitty101]

Meh - I'd prefer to have a balanced game rather than an all-powerful magic class. Magic in general is way too overpowered.

I was also hoping it would be a topic about Yahtzee's bar XD

 

[Mercsenary]

I, as a dedicated RPG fan have often been dumbfounded by magic systems in games. Why in a world that calls itself High Fantasy do I have the magical capabilities of a real life magician? When SO much of modern fantasy is based on the work of Tolkien why do I "run out of spells"? Gandalf didnt have this problem! Even HARRY POTTER didnt have this GLARING HORRID limitation! I speak of course of the mana bar that seemingly age old mechanic that has you unable to summon up so much as a puff of smoke at just the wrong instant to lead to your demise at the hands of that smelly warrior! While recent games have gone the route of using cooldowns instead I have to ask why limit it at all? For game balance? The ENTIRE point of magic is to be unbalanced. I want to summon skeleton armies from my fallen foes and conjure firestorms to destroy cities in an instant! I dont want to retreat helplessly while waiting for my magical talents to recharge! So.... who feels they have the wit to finally defeat this horrid blemish on modern gaming? Who among you can help put this flawed concept to final rest? WHO AMONG YOU CAN...oh screw it! Anybody got any ideas?

... In other words you want an instant win button. GTFO.

 

[Zarthek]

In games it exists as a method of balancing gameplay (Though In some you can get such a massive mana pool that it doesn't even matter anymore...). Though some of these fantasy universes explains why a magician cannot cast continuously. One such example is the Warcraft games, I've actually read the books that explain the backstory and whenever the mages cast continuously they become fatigued. In a way you could argue that the mana is somewhat equal to the mage's energy, your character stops casting because he/she is tired.

So that's one way to look at it

 

[Vault Citizen]

I, as a dedicated RPG fan have often been dumbfounded by magic systems in games. Why in a world that calls itself High Fantasy do I have the magical capabilities of a real life magician? When SO much of modern fantasy is based on the work of Tolkien why do I "run out of spells"? Gandalf didnt have this problem! Even HARRY POTTER didnt have this GLARING HORRID limitation! I speak of course of the mana bar that seemingly age old mechanic that has you unable to summon up so much as a puff of smoke at just the wrong instant to lead to your demise at the hands of that smelly warrior! While recent games have gone the route of using cooldowns instead I have to ask why limit it at all? For game balance? The ENTIRE point of magic is to be unbalanced. I want to summon skeleton armies from my fallen foes and conjure firestorms to destroy cities in an instant! I dont want to retreat helplessly while waiting for my magical talents to recharge! So.... who feels they have the wit to finally defeat this horrid blemish on modern gaming? Who among you can help put this flawed concept to final rest? WHO AMONG YOU CAN...oh screw it! Anybody got any ideas?

if you want a game with powerful magic and no mana bar play Fable 2.

 

[Malk_Content]

I'd go the way of the old Mage pen and paper game. Reality does not like being fucked with, mess about with it too much and you suffer backlash. Something like this in a video game would be interesting, there would be no upper limit to the amount of magic you could cast but the risks with each spell would gradually get higher and higher. Kind of like the boost bar in Motorstorm, you can push over the limit but the more you do so the more likely it is that you will go up in flames.

 

[someonehairy-ish]

I always prefer systems where magic is absurdly powerful but takes it's toll on the user by making them insane, slowly killing them or both.

You want massive, unstoppable powers? You got 'em, but you're still only human and something has got to give.

This is cool but how would you implement it into a game (assuming we mean computer game not tabletop d & d type thing.) In single player, could be fun if it was built into the story. Cant see it workin in multiplayer.

 

[TheMagicLemur]

So what you want is an instant "Kill Everything" button, then. Not sure that'd be a very saleable game.

 

[Hawgh]

Pick up one of the multitude of DnD-based games.
Linear warriors, quadratic wizards and all that.

Then stop whining that games with multiple character options also have multiple viable approaches.

 

[Inkidu]

Actually, I think a fun thing to do would be to have a magic centric game. It's not based around whether or not you're a wizard or a rogue. It's based around whether or not you're a wizard A or B.

The spells aren't relegated to some kind of special ability that can be a one-two punch of ownage, but instead a deep and thoughtful action-y kind of game.

Kind of like dueling. One wizard steps up and throws a huge fireball, and another wizard who uses only defensive magic uses a curved shield that reflects the fireball back. The first wizard jumps out of the way of his returned projectile and fires a smaller air wave at a tree causing a cascade of splinters that the magic-reflecting shield can't block and the second wizard lies dead impaled by tree bits.

Yeah, I could see that working. The various attacks are magic, environmental. That would be awesome. It would need to be tweaked to hell, but awesome.