Death to the Mana Bar!

[Frankster]

How about we make magic using similar to psychic powers in 40k?

As in, every time you cast even a simple spell, you need to fight off in the warp the various daemons trying to consume your soul?

So godlike powers are doable, just every time you cast anything there's the risk of an unholy monstrosity breaking the walls of reality through your mind and consuming your soul over the course of the rest of eternity?

Despite lack of mana bar, i assure you people will think twice before casting spells willy nilly.

 

[JMeganSnow]

Still, I was merely making a recommendation to someone. My question is: Who are you to object to that? I still can't see any reason why you would interfere and say something along the lines of "You probably won't like it".

I'm not objecting to it. I provided a *different* recommendation. I provide different recommendations all the time when people tell other people that thus-and-so is really awesome while providing no context, because I hate to see people waste their money and time on things that they're totally not interested in. When I get gushy over things that I like, I'm usually pretty happy when people come around and mention, oh, it's full of bugs or too long or if you prefer "realism" you're going to find it bombastic.

Honestly, what a hypocrite you are that you think *your* recommendation should go *absolutely unchallenged* but anyone else with a different opinion offering a different point of view is somehow an interfering twit. Like anyone gives a flying fuck what I think about the Silmarillion. Why are *you* pitching a fit over it? Are you afraid that your beloved textbook of irrelevant fantasy drivel won't get the "exposure" it "deserves" if anyone actually comes out and says "hey, it's a textbook of irrelevant fantasy drivel. You probably won't like it unless you're the kind of person who enjoys wallowing in that sort of thing."

Your persecution paranoia is really starting to annoy me here, so here is the straight word: Nobody cares what you think. Nobody cares what I think. So get over it already.

 

[JMeganSnow]

Despite lack of mana bar, i assure you people will think twice before casting spells willy nilly.

No they won't. They'll press f5 and reload the game.

 

[JMeganSnow]

Becaues otherwise the most powerful spell would be spammed, ruining any challenge taking away skill or thought, you might as well just have one long QTE.

That takes timing, though, which defeats the "no skill" aspect.

How does it take timing? You have a big on screen prompt. Not to mention that it would be very boring.

For a fraction of a second. Otherwise it's not a "quick-time" event, it's just a PROMPT.

 

[Telemachus]

If its a game where you can only play as a wizard/mage thing, then it should be unbalanced in your favor. I think of Prototype. You are a mutant guy who can kill tanks and helicopters like its no big deal. If they made a game where you can only be a wizard, then that could happen and be awesome and still good game and all that jazz. probably have to be original IP.

 

[JMeganSnow]

I thought this was going to be about Yahtzees bar in Australia, I am actually kind of disappointed as it would have made an interesting topic.

I see im not the only one fooled by this..

You aren't the only ones!... Derp!

Lol. I thought the same, I just didn't waste a post on derping myself. Derp.

 

[Kenjitsuka]

Dude, I thought you meant the place Yathzee and his friends created in Brisbane!
OT then: It's there to keep gameplay balanced, as most games require their gameplay to be.
Overpowered stuff/characters are hate for good reason!

 

[JMeganSnow]

Sorry, it won't happen. If you swing a sword, you get tired eventually, no matter how powerful you are. Thus, if you cast spells, you should be likewise limited. Just as a health bar is the best way to judge how much you can take in damage, so to is mana/magic bars the best way to measure magical energy.

I dunno about "best". It's a solid VISUAL way to represent it, sure. But there are others, and even other ways that don't just use visual cues.

Ok, perhaps not the best. But its the standard, and it works well. If its not broke, don't fix it; otherwise, you end up with a lot of pissed off RPGers.

I thought the whole point of innovation was to find things that weren't broken and "fix" them by making them AWESOME!!!

 

[JoshGod]

Becaues otherwise the most powerful spell would be spammed, ruining any challenge taking away skill or thought, you might as well just have one long QTE.

That takes timing, though, which defeats the "no skill" aspect.

How does it take timing? You have a big on screen prompt. Not to mention that it would be very boring.

For a fraction of a second. Otherwise it's not a "quick-time" event, it's just a PROMPT.

QTE's are still easy.

 

[WolfLordAndy]

Magica's opinion on this matter?

Less Mana, more combos = win

 

[Kadoodle]

I, as a dedicated RPG fan have often been dumbfounded by magic systems in games. Why in a world that calls itself High Fantasy do I have the magical capabilities of a real life magician? When SO much of modern fantasy is based on the work of Tolkien why do I "run out of spells"? Gandalf didnt have this problem! Even HARRY POTTER didnt have this GLARING HORRID limitation! I speak of course of the mana bar that seemingly age old mechanic that has you unable to summon up so much as a puff of smoke at just the wrong instant to lead to your demise at the hands of that smelly warrior! While recent games have gone the route of using cooldowns instead I have to ask why limit it at all? For game balance? The ENTIRE point of magic is to be unbalanced. I want to summon skeleton armies from my fallen foes and conjure firestorms to destroy cities in an instant! I dont want to retreat helplessly while waiting for my magical talents to recharge! So.... who feels they have the wit to finally defeat this horrid blemish on modern gaming? Who among you can help put this flawed concept to final rest? WHO AMONG YOU CAN...oh screw it! Anybody got any ideas?

Oh, when I read the title of the thread I thought you had something against Yahtzee.

 

[JMeganSnow]

Becaues otherwise the most powerful spell would be spammed, ruining any challenge taking away skill or thought, you might as well just have one long QTE.

That takes timing, though, which defeats the "no skill" aspect.

How does it take timing? You have a big on screen prompt. Not to mention that it would be very boring.

For a fraction of a second. Otherwise it's not a "quick-time" event, it's just a PROMPT.

QTE's are still easy.

For people with decent reflexes, yes. However, that still takes SOME skill. Honestly you've beaten the dead horse of my original not-that-funny joke until it resembles mashed potatoes. Horse-flavored mashed potatoes.

 

[t3h br0th3r]

I, as a dedicated RPG fan have often been dumbfounded by magic systems in games. Why in a world that calls itself High Fantasy do I have the magical capabilities of a real life magician? When SO much of modern fantasy is based on the work of Tolkien why do I "run out of spells"? Gandalf didnt have this problem! Even HARRY POTTER didnt have this GLARING HORRID limitation! I speak of course of the mana bar that seemingly age old mechanic that has you unable to summon up so much as a puff of smoke at just the wrong instant to lead to your demise at the hands of that smelly warrior! While recent games have gone the route of using cooldowns instead I have to ask why limit it at all? For game balance? The ENTIRE point of magic is to be unbalanced. I want to summon skeleton armies from my fallen foes and conjure firestorms to destroy cities in an instant! I dont want to retreat helplessly while waiting for my magical talents to recharge! So.... who feels they have the wit to finally defeat this horrid blemish on modern gaming? Who among you can help put this flawed concept to final rest? WHO AMONG YOU CAN...oh screw it! Anybody got any ideas?

And the ranger smiles, notches a bow, and prepares to pwn you again.

the reason you don't have unlimited spells is because what you do have are powerful. Harry Potter had unlimited manna because...hes Harry Potter. i mean seriously, nearly any combat oriented character could take Harry and his crew.

Gandalf never ran out of magic because he knew how to conserve manna. Although he did run low a few times, like the fight with douche-wizard.

The reason you have limited spells is for the same reason I, the mighty and powerful Ranger, (your arch foe and single weakness) don't have a Tommy Gun, Pet Elder Dragon, and Artillery Support.

It would be super OP and all the other classes, like the warriors and rouges, would have nothing to counter with.

 

[Nate Corran]

I thought this was going to be about Yahtzees bar in Australia, I am actually kind of disappointed as it would have made an interesting topic.

I was kind of hoping for that, too. I'd kill to have one of those here in the States.

Agreed.

OT: I'm chill with mana bars. Its another tool to make the actions you makes in-games have consequence

 

[trooper6]

RPG's like Morrowind, Oblivion, Gothic, Diablo, Titan Quest? There are just as many RPG's (or shoot and loot games at least) where you're all by your lonesome as ones where you have a party. Most PEN AND PAPER games are based around a party dynamic because, well, they're supposed to be a social activity. But I've seen gaming groups that were only 2 people, a GM and a single player. It feels a bit weird, though, because the GM spends half the time talking to himself like some sort of crazy person.

The GM spending half of the time talking to himself like some sort of crazy person would be half the fun of a 1 on 1 campaign!

Anyway, The "Mage as uperpowerful with no limitations" works when mages are the only options. But if the game offers options between weak warriors, tragic thieves, and overpowered Wizards, people are going to generally avoid the rogue and warrior...or take them and be irritated.

Magicka, from the way people are describing it, seems like twitch gaming...which I'm not sure would be my cup of tea.

If I were running a table top game with mages who were unbelievably powerful, I'd want all the players to be mages, or none of them. I could see a very interesting campaign set in Dragon Age's Tevinter Imperium. With a non-Mage party, the players could be slaves trying to get freedom, or people from some other part of Thedas trying to topple the evil Imperium. If they are a Mage party, then the challenges have to include a lot of things that can't just be solved by a massive fireball spell. I'm thinking crazy political machinations among magisters.

But a computer game is not yet so good at simulating crazy political machinations or scheming. The social parts of computer games need a lot more development. But I think that all might be fore a different post!

 

[JMeganSnow]

If I were running a table top game with mages who were unbelievably powerful, I'd want all the players to be mages, or none of them. I could see a very interesting campaign set in Dragon Age's Tevinter Imperium. With a non-Mage party, the players could be slaves trying to get freedom, or people from some other part of Thedas trying to topple the evil Imperium. If they are a Mage party, then the challenges have to include a lot of things that can't just be solved by a massive fireball spell. I'm thinking crazy political machinations among magisters.

What I'd do, is have everyone make up 1 mage and 1 non-mage and run both parties simultaneously. That'd make for a sweet game.

 

[Frankster]

No they won't. They'll press f5 and reload the game.

Damn the pc master race and their ungodly quickload/quicksave powers D:

 

[trooper6]

If I were running a table top game with mages who were unbelievably powerful, I'd want all the players to be mages, or none of them. I could see a very interesting campaign set in Dragon Age's Tevinter Imperium. With a non-Mage party, the players could be slaves trying to get freedom, or people from some other part of Thedas trying to topple the evil Imperium. If they are a Mage party, then the challenges have to include a lot of things that can't just be solved by a massive fireball spell. I'm thinking crazy political machinations among magisters.

What I'd do, is have everyone make up 1 mage and 1 non-mage and run both parties simultaneously. That'd make for a sweet game.

That *would* make for a sweet game.

Or you could do like a good friend of mine did. He ran a campaign set in a magical castle complex that housed and protected the 10 noble magical families from "the things outside." Each player made one head of a noble family, one teenage noble, one soldier, and one servant. Reading the recaps, that game seemed completely epic. I had the honor of being able to sit in for one session. It was pretty awesome.

 

[Ace of Spades]

Because without a limitation on the number of spells you can cast, the game would swiftly become too easy and therefore, boring. Turn on an infinite mana cheat on any magic-based game and see how long it's still fun.

 

[zHellas]

I thought this was going to be about Yahtzees bar in Australia, I am actually kind of disappointed as it would have made an interesting topic.

I agree, and this was pretty much my exact thought upon seeing the topic.

OT:

From what I've gathered by skimming your post, what you have a problem with is restrictions on growth and growth itself.