Death to the Mana Bar!

[Liquid Paradox]

I would agree with you, except that your points are flawed in context. Harry Potter has no "Mana bar" because a mana bar would not fit the context of harry potter; in his world, magic users are simply better then non-magic users. I would say the same for gandalf, but... that isn't really true, because gandalf isn't really that powerful.

So, if you have a game where magic is the only offensive/defensive mechanic, then yeah, it should be overpowered.

In Dragon Age: Origens, ther are three classes: The warrior, the rogue, and the mage. the quintessential fantasy threesome. Warriors are tough, and do medium levels of damage, rogues are fast and do a lot of burst damage, and mages are frickin' cannons, blowing the crap out ov everything, but on a limited resource. The reason the mage isn't all powerful is because this world is focused on heroes of different skill sets. Making the mage god-like would alienate players who prefer, say, stealth, or physical strength.

The game world is designed with the player in mind, so a game which allows a player to play as a non-magic class will have a world where the best mage is only as good as the best warrior.

 

[health-bar]

NO!

THE MANA BAR MUST ALWAYS REMAIN!

otherwise i would get lonely all by myself in the top left of the screen.

Spoiler

if you didn't get it look at my username

 

[EPolleys]

Well if unlimited power and no recharge are your thing I'd look at Magicka, that game is mega fun with friends.

IIRC in Magicka, magic is the ONLY thing going. The whole concept of a mana bar only really has relevance in games where you have other options going on at the same time. I take it in Magicka the brute force application doesn't really accomplish much most of the time?

No,but that doesn't change the fact that in Magicka your power is still unlimited, and that is what the op had in mind, unlimited power... I merely pointed him in the game's direction

 

[akibawall95]

Like others I seriously thought this was about the video game bar Yahtzee goes to, but I digress.

I agree that the mana bar has its flaws for example if you could run out and not be able to use any spells and get killed. You should also not be able to use as many spells as you like that would be no fun. As many have stated there are many ways developers have helped to improve it like individual spells recharging and so on.

 

[JMeganSnow]

Well if unlimited power and no recharge are your thing I'd look at Magicka, that game is mega fun with friends.

IIRC in Magicka, magic is the ONLY thing going. The whole concept of a mana bar only really has relevance in games where you have other options going on at the same time. I take it in Magicka the brute force application doesn't really accomplish much most of the time?

No,but that doesn't change the fact that in Magicka your power is still unlimited, and that is what the op had in mind, unlimited power... I merely pointed him in the game's direction

Yeah, and he'll probably enjoy it, too, but it won't necessarily scratch his itch because *having* unlimited power in Magicka is not the point--you already have it. It becomes fun in games where you're not really supposed to have it and it takes some work to get it.

 

[Nohra]

Go play Magicka then. You're only limited by how fast you can tap the spell combinations.

 

[JMeganSnow]

Sorry, it won't happen. If you swing a sword, you get tired eventually, no matter how powerful you are. Thus, if you cast spells, you should be likewise limited. Just as a health bar is the best way to judge how much you can take in damage, so to is mana/magic bars the best way to measure magical energy.

I dunno about "best". It's a solid VISUAL way to represent it, sure. But there are others, and even other ways that don't just use visual cues.

 

[Bloodstain]

Well, okay. So what now? All you're saying is "Don't read it, you won't like it".

Once again, not even remotely what I said. I said, don't read it--unless you're the type of person who'd be likely to enjoy it, i.e. you like all that "behind the scenes" crap. I make no assumptions. It is neither interesting nor engaging on any fundamental level, and likely to be difficult to track down.

Still, I was merely making a recommendation to someone. My question is: Who are you to object to that? I still can't see any reason why you would interfere and say something along the lines of "You probably won't like it". (And you more or less said that; if you didn't think it was probable, you wouldn't have interfered to begin with)
You don't like it, as you clearly show, calling it "crap". That is okay, you don't have to like it. But that is your opinion, and your opinion only. That is why I am kind of missing a "In my opinion" before the "It is neither interesting nor engaging on any fundamental level".

Personally, I like the Silmarillion very much, and I know many who do as well. So please don't interfere when I am telling someone "I liked it, maybe you should try it out if it's your thing!", which I basically did by recommending it.

To me, you just make the impression of being someone who thinks his opinion is worth far more than the opinion of others.

 

[DRSH1989]

use game trainer or cheats... works for me.

 

[George Mooney]

I'm not prepared to read 6 pages to see if it's already been said, but:
Magicka

No spell cooldowns, no mana bars. You actually can spam the raise dead spell once you get it (spam it as fast as your fingers will let or, or even get a macro for more spam).
The game balance still works pretty well, even though you can spam the most powerful spells with no real drawbacks, you still have to worry about some pretty tough enemies, as well as keeping your fellow wizards alive, since you often end up killing and getting killed by them.

If there was a single player game where you play a wizard and the whole idea of the game is be to a bitchin' powerful wizard, then I'd have no problem with it, it does sound pretty fun. But in an MMORPG where you're playing with other real people, giving people unlimited use of magic would cause the game to not be fun for everyone else, because they'd spend the whole game getting visual lag and being blown up.

 

[Bloodstain]

snip

No problem at all! And actually, I think it makes for an interesting character concept. But since I would probably be running a GURPS game, I'd probably have the Gandalf character start off with the same number of points as everybody else, but he'd get some advantages that reflect his status: maybe Positive Reputation, Social Regard, High levels of Magery, Claim to Hospitality, High Status, or things like that to reflect the concept.

Sounds interesting indeed. I'd join tht session happily.

 

[LitleWaffle]

If you want a game where you can destroy everything and have no limits (and therefore no challenges), you'll probably have to make it yourself.

Or... Prototype easy mode.

OT: Well, having no mana bar would be entirely ridiculous if you kept the equivalent spells. Because you could unleash everything forever, forever. A mage class in an RPG would then be completely overpowered and unbalanced.

If you weakened their spells, than they wouldn't be worth it, because a typical mage is powerful and frail. Taking out the powerful would make them extremely underpowered, again ruining the balance.

Or you could eliminate the mana bar and increase the casting time, but that would surely also take out the speed a mage could deal damage, making it in a way underpowered.

Or You could have some minor damaging spells that don't cost anything with an almost instantaneous casting time, moderate damaging spells for a moderate casting speed, and powerful spells with long casting times. Since the more powerful it is, the longer concentration would be needed to cast it.

Its pretty much either my last idea, or Mana bars. Which do you prefer?

 

[Yureina]

I thought this was going to be about Yahtzees bar in Australia, I am actually kind of disappointed as it would have made an interesting topic.

That was my first thought as well.

As for a mana bar... what else could be done? There has to be some limit on crazy super-powered mages using all of their abilities to blow stuff up, right? Mages would get tired after a while of doing that, I think. That's what I see the mana bar as representing...

 

[JoshGod]

Becaues otherwise the most powerful spell would be spammed, ruining any challenge taking away skill or thought, you might as well just have one long QTE.

That takes timing, though, which defeats the "no skill" aspect.

How does it take timing? You have a big on screen prompt. Not to mention that it would be very boring.

 

[Louzon]

While recent games have gone the route of using cooldowns instead I have to ask why limit it at all? For game balance? The ENTIRE point of magic is to be unbalanced. I want to summon skeleton armies from my fallen foes and conjure firestorms to destroy cities in an instant! I dont want to retreat helplessly while waiting for my magical talents to recharge!

So...you wanna drop $60 on a game you can just walk to the end boss and nuke and be done with it in a day? I wish I had that kind of expendable income. lol

 

[Troublesome Lagomorph]

Without it, you'd be an overpowered killing machine, eating away all difficulty for the game. Mage tends to be the more challenging class because you can't just chop everything up, you need to use your available power wisely. If you can cast as much as you want, then that element is gone.

 

[LGC Pominator]

I thought this was going to be about Yahtzees bar in Australia, I am actually kind of disappointed as it would have made an interesting topic.

I see im not the only one fooled by this..

You aren't the only ones!... Derp!

On topic: The limitation is annoying no doubt, however being a mage of infinite power with the only limitation being your health, I doubt that games would be balanced appropriately, given that an attempt to work around the typical "ammo pool" system would either require weakening the weapons in question or requiring time based charge ups of spells to be used (a la the harry potter games where casting the maxima at the end of a spell charges it and unleashes a stronger version), fable 3 tried this with some success... right up until players realised we could max out our health and AoE damage on magic attacks and then things became a case of standing in the middle of the field of battle with near infinite health, holding down the "KILL EVERYTHING" button until you have saved up enough power to simultanaeously PWN everything within your radius, however the downside to this was the fact that somehow the AI knew exactly where your spell diameter lie, and therefore stepped outside of it until you let go of the attack button, so the feature wasn't exactly foolproof, however it did get me through most of the game scott free.

So an alternative system to the tried and true mana bar?

possibly use magic in a similar fashion to the "mark and execute" function in Splinter cell conviction, perhaps that will work properly... or it could go horribly wrong, but I aren't a game designer, so I can't comment on the potential success of this idea, however if a game developer DOES happen to read this, take it, make a game built entirely around the feature, then send me twenty quid!