DICE MOD Lashes Out At Angry BattleField 3 Fans

[Sgt. Dante]

On the other hand these people do pay his wage, and we're under no obligation to buy his shit, so maybe he should be a little more tactful about it? You catch more flies with honey you know?

No, his employer pays his wage, not some whiny, entitled little bitches on an internet forum.

*Ugh* pedantic so...

Ok, His employer pays his wage,
His employer is a business,
A business makes money by selling products and services,
Products and services are bought by customers,
Customers pay for the Products and services, ergo the business, ergo the employer, ergo the wages.

No customers = no money = no jobs = no wage.

Ipso Facto the customers pay his wage, not directly, but they do. I don't put money in teh developers account via bank transfer, but they continue to be profitable, and sustain jobs by customers continued, you know, custom.

 

[Clive Howlitzer]

Video games are so serious! SERIOUS!!

 

[mikeybuthge]

This one time the developers decided the customers were right, and that we needed a game with everything in it, they called it Daikatana, developers afterwards said "Maybe customers aren't right, let's go with feedback on our ideas" and thus fan trolling was born. Anyways, I think developers have all the right to pick what we test, if its a level no one thought/expected, well tough shit. Get over it, look for the bugs, give feedback, so that when I get my copy I can say "Good thing the bugs were worked out, I'd have hated if people spent time trolling the beta instead of helping out"

 

[Blunderboy]

Good on him. It's about time developers spoke out against the whiny bitching that makes some fans sounds like petulant children.

 

[CD-R]

Considering what usually is said on the Battlefield forums that mod was way more polite than I would have been. It's about time someone told those whiny idiots off. If only he'd back it up with the banhammer. Seriously bitching about the beta? Thats almost as bad as bitching about the free map updates. Wierd though. The Uk forums aren't usually as bad as the American ones.

 

[Baby Tea]

*****, did you ever hear the phrase "the customer is always right"?

The customer is always right... Yes, you would not be saying that if you were a designer of any kind.

A-FREAKING-MEN.
Working as a radio producer, I get clients all the time who want me to make the most bat-shit retarded commercials. And I tell them "No, don't do that because nobody is going to listen to your commercial. They'll just turn you of, or tune you out." But they insist on having as much information CRAMMED and SHOVED into 30 seconds as they can. With a grocery list of items that nobody will remember, or really give a shit about.

So yeah: The customer isn't always right. The customer might be right, so listen, but probably not.

This is beyond the fact, of course, that these people this community manager is addressing are NOT customers. They are Potential customers, who have been given a very serious privilege to experience the product before they release it. If Best Buy said: "Hey, we have chosen you to take home this 40" LED TV to test for us! It's yours free of charge, and you get it for 2 or 3 months!" What moron would be saying 'Awww! This SUCKS! I wanted the 50" version! Are you kidding me?! You know, I might buy this TV, I want the BEST SHIT!"?

Nobody. Nobody would say that. Because that would be retarded.

So, in short, I agree with the MOD.

 

[Vrach]

Don't see anything wrong with zhinto's post. He's completely right, they're doing an open beta and letting everyone in. People are obviously not complaining because they wanna help test different maps, they're complaining they don't get to play what they want. So yeah, the open beta is most definitely a privilege - sure DICE are getting some testing out of it, but for the most part, it's a "play the game for free" deal.

 

[Blunderboy]

On the other hand these people do pay his wage, and we're under no obligation to buy his shit, so maybe he should be a little more tactful about it? You catch more flies with honey you know?

No, his employer pays his wage, not some whiny, entitled little bitches on an internet forum.

*Ugh* pedantic so...

Ok, His employer pays his wage,
His employer is a business,
A business makes money by selling products and services,
Products and services are bought by customers,
Customers pay for the Products and services, ergo the business, ergo the employer, ergo the wages.

No customers = no money = no jobs = no wage.

Ipso Facto the customers pay his wage, not directly, but they do. I don't put money in teh developers account via bank transfer, but they continue to be profitable, and sustain jobs by customers continued, you know, custom.

Great, but they aren't customers until they pay for the game. Seeing as it's a free beta, then your argument looses all validity.

 

[Jake Lewis Clayton]

If customers aren't supposed to demand anything of suppliers, why is one of the basic economic forces called "DEMAND"?

Demand is the need/want for a product, the product in question being BF3.

Demand is not about asking for the supplier to change their unfinished product 1 month before the end of a 2 year product development. Nor is it demanding to change something of a free service when you as a consumer will buy the finished product either way.

Supply the flipside of Supply and Demand, is all about supplying a product which the consumer wants, consumers want battlefield 3, and consumers will pay for battlefield 3. But customers will not be paying for the beta, and as such the supplier will not want to divert resources to a free service, which they have designed to make their life slightly easier and also help consumers. Especially when diverting resources in such a way to put in the origionally stated map would be detrimental to making their life easier.

The majority of customers will buy BF3 with or without anychanges from this point on, or whether the beta features map A or map B. Because there isn't a product closer to what BF fans want than BF3.

And that is where Dice fit in as suppliers, they supply a general product, not a catered service, but there is no alternative.

Therefor creating the afformentioned demand. ;-)

 

[BumblebeeEU]

*****, did you ever hear the phrase "the customer is always right"? You get paid for all your work with my money, so if I wanna give negative feedback about the chosen map and THUS help you realize what maps I prefer to play and what you should be focusing on in future DLCs, I'll do that.

I am so curious if he got away with it or if DICE will be making a "we're sorry" thread. Insulting the very own costumers who not only are interested in buying your shit, but are also willing to play certain parts of your shit and offer feedback to that shit, that's just not right.

Ugh, no.

I absolutely hate the phrase 'The Customer is always right.' Its such a ridiculous mindset and one that's hugely detrimental to anyone who has to deal with customers. The phrase should be 'The customer should always come away feeling satisfied.' which is a bit more of a mouthful I grant you but the phrase is so overused and its true original meaning lost that people use it as an excuse for any sort of argument where a customer is dissatisfied with how a company treated them. If the customer was always right most retailers would not be able to make money, because, say, I could buy a game on disc, play it, get my fun, scratch the fuck out of it, take it back and say it was like that when I bought it. I'm always right so give me a refund.

Just becuase you purchased a product doesn't give you free reign to act like the company owes you a favour, it's mutually beneficial. You got something you wanted, the product, they got something they wanted, your money. Genuine issues are different, but just buying something doesn't mean you then have final say in what the company does with that product.

Edit- Also, if you haven't pre-ordered the game you're not a paying customer so really you have even less wiggle room to complain.

 

[wooty]

So they dont want to play this one map?........
Then wait for the full game.

I sometimes do understand a beta, but sometimes dont. Devs put out a beta in order to let the community play it as it stands, give feedback and help the team polish off the game before the release date.
But, theres always fools who will moan about what theyve been given, which is free, and seem to think that the beta is the finished article.

I remember playing the beta on Guild Wars years ago, and broken didnt even come close, but the finished game was an awful lot better.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

I was simply mocking this forum mod for accusing gamers of an entitlement complex, when HE, the DEVELOPER (using the term loosely), needs the gamers to BUY HIS PRODUCT. Of their own free will. By posting an indignant and immature response to customer dissatisfaction he has displayed his own (and possibly DICE's/EA's) entitled mindset.

That's not entitlement, that's called market economy. Sure, DICE needs people to buy their game to remain afloat as a company. But he's not demanding anything from us as potential customers other than that we shut up and let him do his job and stop acting like entitled five year olds. That's not entitlement, at most it amounts to bad PR or bad manners.

Besides, at this point there are no customers yet. Which was the entire point of his post. No one that participates in the BF3 beta will be paying anything for it. These people are literarly being pissed off because they do not agree with the free sample they are being given. Until your money is on the table (or in EA's pocket), you as a customer has exactly one right: The right to choose whatever to buy the product or not.

 

[Ranorak]

*****, did you ever hear the phrase "the customer is always right"? You get paid for all your work with my money, so if I wanna give negative feedback about the chosen map and THUS help you realize what maps I prefer to play and what you should be focusing on in future DLCs, I'll do that.

I am so curious if he got away with it or if DICE will be making a "we're sorry" thread. Insulting the very own costumers who not only are interested in buying your shit, but are also willing to play certain parts of your shit and offer feedback to that shit, that's just not right.

The customer is always right... Yes, you would not be saying that if you were a designer of any kind.

Or in fact, employed anywhere that deals with people.
The Customer is almost never right.
They think they are, but they're not.

Actually, I find Yahtzee's words to be particularly relevant here;
"Fans are clingy complaining dipshits who will never ever be grateful for any concession you make. The moment you shut out their shrill, tremulous voices the happier you will be for it."

Here's a free sample of our game!
"God damn you son of a *****, this is not the map I wanted!"
...but but... it's a free sample.
"GTFO"

 

[Jakub324]

I feel sorry for DICE on this one. Yeah, fuck you, angry fanboys.

 

[DigitalSushi]

I would have been more stealthy with the matter, I would have checked all the complainers profiles and any showing at an age lower than the PEGI rating of BF3 I would have banned, but I'm quietly evil like that.

Bit overboard from both sides of the argument, all the CM is doing there is addressing the entire demographic of complainers and escalating the discussion/argument/vitriol, because he's being a bit childish the nay sayers will see that as a "i'll follow your lead and do the same back"

Remember that if you fight fire with fire, you get more fire.
Fighting fire with water however, that has a different outcome.

 

[Sgt. Dante]

*Ugh* pedantic so...

Ok, His employer pays his wage,
His employer is a business,
A business makes money by selling products and services,
Products and services are bought by customers,
Customers pay for the Products and services, ergo the business, ergo the employer, ergo the wages.

No customers = no money = no jobs = no wage.

Ipso Facto the customers pay his wage, not directly, but they do. I don't put money in teh developers account via bank transfer, but they continue to be profitable, and sustain jobs by customers continued, you know, custom.

Great, but they aren't customers until they pay for the game. Seeing as it's a free beta, then your argument looses all validity.

I don't see how it loses any validity at all,

No customers = no money = no jobs = no wage.

BF3 is not their first project, and it won't be their last, developers don't wait till the game is released to get a wage, the funds from other game sales drive the development team.

No customers = no money = no jobs = no wage.

But no, you?re probably right; the company just got the $200 million in advertising costs alone by magic or something. Never mind how much making the game actually cost. Maybe they robbed a bank, or found a really stupid one to give them such a huge loan.

No, customers provide the income across a range of products that make this happen. Customers pay the wages that allow there to be a beta at all; customers pay the bills and keep the development team well fed.

No customers = no money = no jobs = no wage.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

*Ugh* pedantic so...

Ok, His employer pays his wage,
His employer is a business,
A business makes money by selling products and services,
Products and services are bought by customers,
Customers pay for the Products and services, ergo the business, ergo the employer, ergo the wages.

No customers = no money = no jobs = no wage.

Ipso Facto the customers pay his wage, not directly, but they do. I don't put money in teh developers account via bank transfer, but they continue to be profitable, and sustain jobs by customers continued, you know, custom.

Great, but they aren't customers until they pay for the game. Seeing as it's a free beta, then your argument looses all validity.

I don't see how it loses any validity at all,

No customers = no money = no jobs = no wage.

BF3 is not their first project, and it won't be their last, developers don't wait till the game is released to get a wage, the funds from other game sales drive the development team.

No customers = no money = no jobs = no wage.

But no, you?re probably right; the company just got the $200 million in advertising costs alone by magic or something. Never mind how much making the game actually cost. Maybe they robbed a bank, or found a really stupid one to give them such a huge loan.

No, customers provide the income across a range of products that make this happen. Customers pay the wages that allow there to be a beta at all; customers pay the bills and keep the development team well fed.

No customers = no money = no jobs = no wage.

Do tell me exactly how you deduct that angry fans, that are upset because they have an oversized sense of entitlement, being told to not be so angry and feeling so entitled equates to lost sales. The truth is that if you're investing so much time into a, as of yet unreleased, game that you have an opinion on the map included in the beta, then you're probably buying the game no matter what.

Besides, a majority of the people who will be buying BF3 will never log onto the BF3 forums. This post will anger a vocal minority of the vocal minority that's on the BF3 forums. And if there's something that Fallout 3 proved it is that angry, self-entitled fans will buy your product anyway, no matter how much they deride you as a developer or your game.

 

[Sgt. Dante]

Do tell me exactly how you deduct that angry fans, that are upset because they have an oversized sense of entitlement, being told to not be so angry and feeling so entitled equates to lost sales. The truth is that if you're investing so much time into a, as of yet unreleased, game that you have an opinion on the map included in the beta, then you're probably buying the game no matter what.

Besides, a majority of the people who will be buying BF3 will never log onto the BF3 forums. This post will anger a vocal minority of the vocal minority that's on the BF3 forums. And if there's something that Fallout 3 proved it is that angry, self-entitled fans will buy your product anyway, no matter how much they deride you as a developer or your game.

Basically this, If you're in the beta and you are involved enough to want to make it better (in your own stupid way) by yelling at the developers you are probably going to buy the game and you probably have at least 1 other game in the franchise. You are a customer, you fund this company, and you pay the wages.

No customers = no money = no jobs = no wage.

Point well made Gethsemani. Much more eloquent than my rambly nonsense.

 

[faithhhhh]

Lol at people who care about it.