Did Bush do anything right?

[dnnydllr]

Economies have momentum, and the general rule is applied to less than ultra-high income people (ie people who are noticeably affected by tax changes, not those who can only buy one sports car next year).

Well, since Obama's tax plan has a TAX CUT [http://alchemytoday.com/obamataxcut/] for anyone making less than $100,000 a year, you have nothing whatsoever to complain about there.

Except that employers can't afford to pay workers anymore...AKA the rising unemployment rate. Those who make over 100k pay those who make less than it, therefore yes, we have something to complain about.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

Also, I applaud Bush for using harsh interrogation against terrorists

So, when do you think we should start using "harsh interrogation" against domestic criminals, if it's so wonderful?

Stupid fascist torturemonkey.

Sorry but i don't consider Al-Qaeda terrorists human beings at all.

I remember the last bunch who started talking that way [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazis]....

Yes, I just Godwinned myself. But a few things to remember:
1: Just because you think someone's evil, doesn't make them non-human.
2: We're supposed to be BETTER than the terrorists. If we "have" to sink to their level to "win", we have already lsot what's worth fighting for.
3: I lack your touching faith that the same government that couldn't stop New Orleans from being washed into the Gulf of Mexico is sufficiently infallible to NOT occasionally arrest and "interrogate" innocent people. When said innocent people get OUT, they become walking billboards of Al-Qaeda.

Waterboarding isn't nearly as bad as it's portrayed. It's only about 40 second intervals and there's a doctor on standby as well. Also the info we got from them proved invaluable in stopping terrorist attacks.

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Was Waterboarded 183 Times in One Month [http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/04/18/khalid-sheikh-mohammed-was-waterboarded-183-times-in-one-month/]

Just think how much MORE information we could have pried from his twitching carcass if we'd only waterboarded him 184 times! Clearly, this was vital intelligence work, not gratuitous institutional sadism for the sake of vengeance.

And WHAT info would that be? Even the Israeli government (not an organization anyone sane has EVER accused of being "soft on terrorism") has given up on torturing prisoners, on the grounds that it's no good for getting information, but it's GREAT for getting false confessions. Just ask Joe Stalin.

Also, we've had over 100 prisoners DIE in US custody, and in at least 30 cases it was blatant enough that the armed forces investigated them as homicides. Just a few bad apples, right? Sure hope none of those Nonhuman Terrorist Units knew anything Important...

And my question still stands. If you think water-torture, attack dogs, and hypothermia are good enough for the subhuman terrorist creatures, when will it start being applied to our own domestic untermenchen?

I support this post. We must stop allowing our respective governments to use fear to coerce us into surrendering to them powers they have consistently demonstrated they are not capable of using responsibly.

Isn't this America, damnit? What happened to principle?

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

Economies have momentum, and the general rule is applied to less than ultra-high income people (ie people who are noticeably affected by tax changes, not those who can only buy one sports car next year).

Well, since Obama's tax plan has a TAX CUT [http://alchemytoday.com/obamataxcut/] for anyone making less than $100,000 a year, you have nothing whatsoever to complain about there.

It is possible to give with one hand and take with the other. Detractors would argue that the effects of unpayable debt and inflation have virtually the same effect as a tax increase over time, making the gesture seem empty, even underhanded.

 

[Barry93]

Also, I applaud Bush for using harsh interrogation against terrorists

So, when do you think we should start using "harsh interrogation" against domestic criminals, if it's so wonderful?

Stupid fascist torturemonkey.

Sorry but i don't consider Al-Qaeda terrorists human beings at all.

I remember the last bunch who started talking that way [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazis]....

Yes, I just Godwinned myself. But a few things to remember:
1: Just because you think someone's evil, doesn't make them non-human.
2: We're supposed to be BETTER than the terrorists. If we "have" to sink to their level to "win", we have already lsot what's worth fighting for.
3: I lack your touching faith that the same government that couldn't stop New Orleans from being washed into the Gulf of Mexico is sufficiently infallible to NOT occasionally arrest and "interrogate" innocent people. When said innocent people get OUT, they become walking billboards of Al-Qaeda.

Waterboarding isn't nearly as bad as it's portrayed. It's only about 40 second intervals and there's a doctor on standby as well. Also the info we got from them proved invaluable in stopping terrorist attacks.

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Was Waterboarded 183 Times in One Month [http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/04/18/khalid-sheikh-mohammed-was-waterboarded-183-times-in-one-month/]

Just think how much MORE information we could have pried from his twitching carcass if we'd only waterboarded him 184 times! Clearly, this was vital intelligence work, not gratuitous institutional sadism for the sake of vengeance.

And WHAT info would that be? Even the Israeli government (not an organization anyone sane has EVER accused of being "soft on terrorism") has given up on torturing prisoners, on the grounds that it's no good for getting information, but it's GREAT for getting false confessions. Just ask Joe Stalin.

Also, we've had over 100 prisoners DIE in US custody, and in at least 30 cases it was blatant enough that the armed forces investigated them as homicides. Just a few bad apples, right? Sure hope none of those Nonhuman Terrorist Units knew anything Important...

And my question still stands. If you think water-torture, attack dogs, and hypothermia are good enough for the subhuman terrorist creatures, when will it start being applied to our own domestic untermenchen?

Sinking to their level huh? Alright then i guess we should have just not interrogated them at all. That way the world would have a better opinion on us and the only thing we would have to pay is a few thousand American civilians lives. Oh, but we would respect the moral rights of a physcotic ruthless killer.

No, either them or us. Info isn't always accuarate but we did get a lot of it out of them that was right. It's the only option anyway, that field manual BS won't get us anywhere.

I think they should have waterboarded him 184 more times even if it didn't get us anywhere. They don't show any mercy, why should we? As for normal criminals, i really don't care what happens to them as it's their fault they ended up in jail in the first place

 

[Seekster]

Hey Rooster, wondered when you might show up.

Yes America does have its priniciples...thats why we (or rather the Iraqis) gave Saddam a trial before he was hung when we could have just shot the rat when we found him and said we found him dead.

Seriously though America has a reputation as being a benevolent superpower and we like to maintain that reputation but when someone (in this case Al Qaeda, past examples have included Japan) pisses us off, we tend to behave rather brashly...and I wouldnt have it any other way.

The rest of the world shouldn't worry, we should mellow out in a few more years provided no one else pisses us off before then.

 

[T-Blade]

I'm British, So I do not know much about what exactly is happening in America, but to me most of the things that Bush done just seems like a desperate attempt to get him his name remembered.

 

[Cortheya]

Did bush really do anything wrong?

Sure, plenty of people are against him on policy, but I can't think of that many things he objectivly did wrong.

And it isn't like this is a monarchy, the president has way less power than people tend to think.

Exactly thats been my position he was put under extraordinary circumstances. I'm not saying he did a particularly good job just that people need to lay off of him.

 

[ButtonedDownParadox]

Wait wasn't Khalid Sheikh Mohammed one of the masterminds behind the 9/11 attacks? Your right we shouldn't have water boarded him to get his info. We should have water boarded him and then shot the bastard. Yeah I know its not very American of us to do that but if he wanted Americans to act American then he shouldn't have planned an attack to piss us off.

Also I heard somewhere that some of the so called "torture" techniques (not water boarding) used at Gitmo are similar to techniques used during U.S. military training (might have been Marines or some special forces unit).

Definition for 'principle' according to Merriam-Webster:

1 a: a comprehensive and fundamental law, doctrine, or assumption b (1): a rule or code of conduct (2): habitual devotion to right

Also what you say of U.S. military training may have been true. Why do I say that? Because during World War II the Japanese would waterboard American P.O.W.s for intel. Would you like to know what was done to the people who would order that? They were tried and executed by America for war crimes according to the Geneva Convention.

 

[Fearzone]

He created several underwater marine national parks.

 

[Fearzone]

 

[Barry93]

I'm British, So I do not know much about what exactly is happening in America, but to me most of the things that Bush done just seems like a desperate attempt to get him name remembered.

You know what? It is. You didn't see how the media here demonized him and portrayed him as Satan. Bush wasn't great but at the same time he wasn't bad.

 

[Seekster]

I'm British, So I do not know much about what exactly is happening in America, but to me most of the things that Bush done just seems like a desperate attempt to get him name remembered.

He is the only President other than John Quincy Adams whose father had been President as well. Even if Bush had done absolutely nothing in office history would still remember him both because he was a U.S. President and because of the novelty fact I mentioned earlier. Nah Bush stood for something and stuck with it even when his views weren't popular.

A good politician does whatever it takes to get reelected and that means winning the support of as many people as you can by doing whatever is popular even if it isnt what you believe in. In fact a really good politician (like Clinton for example) doesnt believe in anything except themselves and getting reelected so its easier for them because they dont have values to compromise. Bush was not a very good politician but thats not necessarily an insult.

 

[Scambug]

The replies in this thread leads me to believe the erports we've gotten over here that US citizens really are eating the crazy stuff they're spoonfed, and enjoying it too.

I live in a counry with nationalized health care - and it's great. You pay a small fee when you see a doctor or go to the hospital, and if it's a serious illness requiering repeat visits the fee gets lower until it's free.

And torture is never ok.
The intel gained from it is bad, and the rest of the world views you as sadistic bullies. heck, some of us even feel you deserved the attacks, the way the US have been acting theese last years.

 

[101194]

Flame war 2009!



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FLAMEWAR 2009!!!!! Go Flame-War!

 

[Seekster]

Wait wasn't Khalid Sheikh Mohammed one of the masterminds behind the 9/11 attacks? Your right we shouldn't have water boarded him to get his info. We should have water boarded him and then shot the bastard. Yeah I know its not very American of us to do that but if he wanted Americans to act American then he shouldn't have planned an attack to piss us off.

Also I heard somewhere that some of the so called "torture" techniques (not water boarding) used at Gitmo are similar to techniques used during U.S. military training (might have been Marines or some special forces unit).

Definition for 'principle' according to Merriam-Webster:

1 a: a comprehensive and fundamental law, doctrine, or assumption b (1): a rule or code of conduct (2): habitual devotion to right

Also what you say of U.S. military training may have been true. Why do I say that? Because during World War II the Japanese would waterboard American P.O.W.s for intel. Would you like to know what was done to the people who would order that? They were tried and executed by America for war crimes according to the Geneva Convention.

I know, im not saying water boarding is right, im just saying that in this case I really dont mind it.

 

[Highlandheadbanger]

I'm by no standard a fan of the man, but I do respect him a little and will speak a little kinder of him for the U.S. recognition of Tartan Day, honoring the contributions and traditions of the Scottish people and their impact on American cultur.

 

[Lonan]

He placed 500,000 square kilometres of ocean under protection before leaving power, including the ecologically important Marianes Trench. Of course that will probably be offset by him creating the corn ethanol industry which is now too profitable to shut down, which probably puts more CO2 into the air through deforestation than it takes out through slightly reduced vehicle emissions. And by offset I mean that increases in ocean acidity has the potential to expand dead zones and possibly turn the whole oceans stagnant if people just go around completely blind and utterly uninvolved with the chaos around them, which George Bush was a great supporter of. I guess if we are all chauvinistic we should be thanking him. I just can't get enough of that pain and suffering for all of the third world, and that nuclear war between India and Pakistan over water supplies. MMM MMM YEAH. THANKS GEORGE.

 

[JMeganSnow]

Sure it's easy to bash ol' dubyuh, but is there anything he did that you think is a positive?

Hmm, good question. Let me think for a moment . . . no. Let's recap the major events of his presidency:

Promised Social Security Reform (with a Republican congress, even) . . . failed.
Effective War on Terror . . . failed.
Shrink the government . . . failed.

So what DID he succeed in doing? Massive budget increase, embroiling us in a stupid self-sacrificial attempt to bring "democracy" to people who weren't at all interested in it, brought on a massive new prescription drug "benefit" that further paved the way for socialized medicine, spat on the Constitution with his "faith-based initiatives", spat on it AGAIN with the Terry Schiavo debacle and basically emboldened murderous psychotic religious fanatics the world over.

George W. Bush: "During my presidency, the Earth did not crash into the Sun."

 

[101194]

Flame-War 2009!!!

If the Embed didn't work, Please go to this Direct Link To show my Opinion on this!

 

[AbsoluteVirtue18]

He invited Ozzy over for dinner.