Did people forget this..?

[loa]

If it's there it affects the game.

Like in dead space 3, even if you don't play co-op, carver will just miraculously appear in cutscenes and even if you don't use micro transactions, getting weapons is a grindfest now.

Furthermore, the game will be balanced around it.
If a stealth game has a minimap or lets you see through walls, you probably won't stand a chance without using that and if there are quest markers, the quest text itself will probably not even contain precise enough info where exactly to go.

You can't just "not do it" and it miraculously fixes everything attached to the feature.
There's a reason why people complain about certain features and it's not an irrational urge to use the feature no matter what.

Also try to come up with more descriptive thread titles next time.

 

[Radoh]

Try to play Skyrim without quest markers. Go ahead, try it. If the game is built around (a) certain feature(s), you can't just say 'don't use them'. It doesn't work like that.

By this logic, Morrowind should be nigh-impossible. It was, at the very least, just a little difficult since I was so used to waypoints. I had to remember names and places and maps, and Oblivion onward never asked that much of me. But back then, Morrowind was considered one of the greatest RPGs of all time. So no, a sandbox WRPG does not need waypoints.

Actually no, Morrowind would have the quest giver give you actual directions to go to places, Head out the east gate, take a left at the fork, once you reach the fort go south etc...
At no point would it have been impossible, you just need to pay attention, and the journal would log your discussions with the character so even if you forgot them you'd be able to just look up what the directions were and use that.

 

[chiggerwood]

Try to play Skyrim without quest markers. Go ahead, try it. If the game is built around (a) certain feature(s), you can't just say 'don't use them'. It doesn't work like that.

I have, it's hard sure, and yeah I started using them again due to convenience, but it's not impossible. You just need to be willing to do a lot of hard work and searching. In some ways it makes the game more interesting, at least in my opinion.

 

[karma9308]

"Doctor it hurts when I do this. Well don't do that then!"
OT: I agree on the point you're making. Not necessarily the examples. If the feature not liked is a core feature, then there should be complaints about the feature. However, if you think that using smithing, enchanting, and alchemy all together to make the most badass equipment to break the game...which then breaks the game. Don't complain about that!

 

[Odbarc]

I think it's funny how people don't seem to have any thought to use mute features in games. They start to get trolled and the first (and only) option they seem to have is to "feed the troll" versus a straight up mute and no longer becomes an issue.

I like easy modes. It doesn't mean it's a necessary feature or crutch for me, but sometimes I don't WANT to be challenged. I'm willing and wanting to do something easy without having to find a different game.

I'm just as likely to roll a level 1 character for Skyrim and play only on Very Hard as I am to put my level 50+ on Very Easy just to 1-hit everything and kill the NPCs in town.

 

[loa]

However, if you think that using smithing, enchanting, and alchemy all together to make the most badass equipment to break the game...which then breaks the game. Don't complain about that!

As if skyrim was not hilariously broken without that.

 

[Vrach]

If a game has fast traveling, and if you're against it. DON'T USE IT. Self control.
If a game has over powered skills. (Skyrim crafting, etc.) Don't use it!
If a game has quest markers TURN THEM OFF. don't use it! (Unless there isn't any way to turn them, then feel free to complain)

1) It's not the same to have the option and to be forced to do something a certain way. The fact it's forced doesn't change the fact it's better. Our brains don't work that way, humans are designed to take the easier route as much as they can. I'm not saying it's impossible to resist, but it's not easy and it most certainly makes it so that it's not the same to have the option and not to.

I'll even give you a RL example. Up until a year ago I used to walk and bike everywhere. However, moving to a new university, that became less of an option as I can't waste hours every day going there and back again on foot and biking isn't always an option (weather, getting there sweaty etc.). So I got myself a monthly bus card. Now - I take the bus EVERYWHERE. If one's on my way, I'll take it, even if it's less than half a mile away to walk. Can I resist? Sure. But there's always a naggling thought in my brain saying "you can get there faster and easier and it won't cost you a thing"

2) When a game is designed around a feature, it makes it hard not to use it. See, the problem in Skyrim and Oblivion isn't that you have quest markers and fast travel. It's that you don't have tools to avoid using them. Where in Morrowind, you would've gotten directions to your objective, Oblivion and Skyrim just tell you a general location and put a GPS marker on your map.

Where in Morrowind you could use blazing speed, Levitation, Jump and other tools to get around, Oblivion and Skyrim take that away. You can either trod on over there at a ridiculously slow pace or fast travel there. There aren't alternatives like there were before, so not, you can't say "just turn off/don't use the options you don't like and it's the same". The reasons those options get hate is because to make them, the developers took away their alternatives.

 

[Nazulu]

What YOU seem to be forgetting is the game isn't FUCKING BUILT AROUND NOT USING IT!!! Also, I wasn't aware what was over-powered or not when I first played it. I had to find out for myself. Should I be looking for problems every time I buy a game?

What you seem to not have any comprehension over at all is that some peoples minds just don't operate as easy as 'don't use it'. The fun for many is finding the easiest/fastest way to complete the game, to get around those challenges. So when a game makes some thing over-powered, it's not easy at all for them to ignore it. And even then, the game may not have a substitute that you could also use to complete a certain part.

Yeah, just don't use certain parts of the game you bought, because I don't mind so no one else must mind, right? If people find it to be a flaw, then it's a fucking flaw to them! Who are you to tell them how to play?

 

[Ranorak]

Try to play Skyrim without quest markers. Go ahead, try it. If the game is built around (a) certain feature(s), you can't just say 'don't use them'. It doesn't work like that.

I have, it was one of the first things I modded out. In fact, I modded out the whole compass all together.
Because there was still a better fall-back mechanism.

If I forgot where to go, due to not playing for a few days and forgot the dialogue I had with the character.
Or if I had to search an item in a house with way too many storage boxes.

I'd use Clairvoyance.
There, bamn, points me in the right direction, it's an ingame spell, instead of a metaphysical arrow on my compass and it serves the trick.

 

[Trippy Turtle]

In some cases its different. If there was an easy mode, 'I beat Dark Souls without dying once.' wouldn't hold quite the same gravity, even if you didn't use it.

 

[Frybird]

You all don't understand why people are going on about a maybe-eventually-perhaps-or-not Easy Mode of Dark Souls 2.

As you may know, DS2 has been announced not too long ago, and has not much to show for itself other than a CGI Trailer and that one vague remark of one of the People involved.

But "people" need to *****. They need it sooo much. Like a world-weary teenager on a Emo-Rock Binge, they sustain themselves on Drama and the sense of being mistreated by the world.

And since the trailer did not do enough to give reason for OUTRAGE, we get the whole "Easy Mode" spiel people can get hung up about.

As such, anyone trying to argue reasonably for DS2 must be wrong, because otherwise there would be nothing about DS2 to ***** about (yet), and we can't have that.

 

[Nieroshai]

Try to play Skyrim without quest markers. Go ahead, try it. If the game is built around (a) certain feature(s), you can't just say 'don't use them'. It doesn't work like that.

By this logic, Morrowind should be nigh-impossible. It was, at the very least, just a little difficult since I was so used to waypoints. I had to remember names and places and maps, and Oblivion onward never asked that much of me. But back then, Morrowind was considered one of the greatest RPGs of all time. So no, a sandbox WRPG does not need waypoints.

Actually no, Morrowind would have the quest giver give you actual directions to go to places, Head out the east gate, take a left at the fork, once you reach the fort go south etc...
At no point would it have been impossible, you just need to pay attention, and the journal would log your discussions with the character so even if you forgot them you'd be able to just look up what the directions were and use that.

To assume that, you would have to think I said that the journal and map were also gone. I did not. Quest-givers will mark your destination on your map, and your journal will remind you where your next quest objective is for the most part. "Go see X in Y-heim and pick up the Z." "When you're done with that, go talk to Q." [map updated, questgiver showed you where Y-heim is] It's not that hard, and there's an option to turn the marker off. You don't need lefts, rights, and into-the-caves when you have a map and the fellow is nice enough to point the place out to you. If anything, Morrowind made things worse by logging conversations in the order they happened, not sorting lore fluff from jobs, and expecting you to re-read the whole journal (that you presumably wrote) to figure what you were doing last, should you ever put the game down for more than two days. Waypoints aren't necessary if you manage objectives and record keeping right, but the thing is, Morrowind didn't. And yet, (if i keep my own pen and paper journal along with a physical map like any traveler should buy fresh off the boat) that doesn't ruin the game. It's still amazing and immersive. I just have to get used to my sprint speed starting out slower than Skyrim's "Overburdened" speed.

 

[Sack of Cheese]

I also see someone beg for Witcher 3 not to have fast travel. Um.. excuse me? What does a game featuring fast travel have to do with your personal experience? Nothing! That's what. If you don't like it then don't use it. If you like it then use it.

That's what they say, but when a quest requires them to travel back and forth between the two ends of the map, they'd beg them to put it back in. It's not challenging, it's just a chore.
Just like in the case of Dragon's dogma, lacks of fast travels at the beginning of the game turned off a few of my friends.

 

[Joccaren]

If a game has over powered skills. (Skyrim crafting, etc.) Don't use it!

This is pretty much the only thing I object to. Because a company CBF balancing their content right I have to not use that content?
No. That's stupid. I may want to forge, upgrade and enchant my own weapons, but I don't want to become god by doing so. In the case of things like the breadcrumb trail, its not a part of the game's main content - its a guide. In the case of an easy mode, its the same content made easier, but you have the option not to use it. Fast travelling doesn't add content, it merely makes content more convenient. Crafting systems and such are part of the gameplay though, and saying not to use them is like saying "Don't use anything but a pistol in all FPS 'cause all the other weapons are OP". It doesn't matter if they are or not, by only losing a pistol you're greatly limiting your experience and cutting out a lot of potential fun because of the developer's mistake/a design decision you don't like. That's something you should complain about, as some content you purchased is unenjoyable because of it. I shouldn't have not play a part of the game because of a balance issue. That is something that should be fixed, and if not then complained about come hell or high water, 'cause its content your not satisfied with.

 

[sanquin]

Dark souls getting an easy mode?
Don't play the easy mode. Simple as that, and let's face it. Dark Souls needed a better tutorial system. It's a fact I shouldn't have to use google to figure out how to do certain things, and the item menu was complete utter trash. A gamer should *always* have a clear understanding of the games mechanics, and features. This doesn't make the game "easy" it makes the game accessible. Those are two different things. I don't understand why people confuse the two words.

You first talk about self control, and then say you "need" google to find out how things work in Dark Souls. Oh the irony. Dark Souls is build around trial and error. You're supposed to fail and fail again until you find out the correct way to do it. And you're supposed to try and try again until you find out how to do something.

Seems you're just as "weak willed" as the people you're accusing. As you too circumvent the game mechanics and intentions and instead choose the easier way to play the game. (As in, with the help of google.)

 

[TheCinnamonBun]

I think people don't like those kind of features because they see it as a form of handholding (and thus the whole greedy lazy developers feeding casual gamers argument... but thats a whole other thread on its own that doesnt need to be discussed here), espicially in a series like TES which pretty much got Fast Travel and Quest/location finding spot on in Morrowind.

something i loved about Morrowind is that you had to memorize the landscape on your own, no giant markers, no compass, just some directions and what to look for from the quest giver and off you go. you just don't get that sense of reward from Skyrims system and trying to play without the markers will just leave you running around in circles until you turn them back on, sure a mod could easily rectify it but i haven't found a mod that does the morrowind style journal yet (ps someone make that mod).

As for fast travel its more of a personal taste, but id really recommend for anyone who hasn't done it to try using the carriages and boats only, it slows down the pacing alot, making the game last longer and you'll find yourself seeing alot more of Skyrim's awesome landscape then you would if you're just jumping from dot to dot.

Smithing, well yea... dont like it, dont use it. another thing id recommend giving a try not using because it makes finding awesome gear even more rewarding, of course slapping a couple other mods that effect loot etc adds to that reward .

 

[sanquin]

I cant comment on the witcher because Ive not played a witcher game since the first one that came off as Mysoginistic making me completely uninterested i the rest of the franchise.

Misogynistic, maybe. But guess what? In medieval times people weren't as tolerant, open minded and emancipated as today. Is it really that terrible that a game tries to portray a more realistic version of how life was in those days? Or do you rather have happy fantasy worlds where the feminism movement apparently also already happened like in Skyrim?

I mean, it's fine if you do. But don't call a game misogynistic just because it did some fact checking on human history. People in the game are misogynistic. The game itself isn't.