'Disney's first black princess - a good thing?'

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sokka14

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i don't like that they seem to be using it as a gimmick.
i'm just looking forward to a new hand-drawn disney film, though i have to admit pixar have done such an amazing job over the years i can't blame disney for taking so long in bothering to go back to the hand-drawn stuff.
 

RheynbowDash

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zhoominator said:
Furburt said:
It's the same people who kicked up a fuss when they heard that there was black zombies in L4D2.
But where were these people when Transformers 2 came out?

A: Because they weren't thick enough to watch it, unlike me...
I actually liked Transformers 2.
And my buddy actually pointed out that Skidz and Mudflap could possible be caricatures of Will Smith and Martin Lawrence. Seeing as how the movie was directed by Michael Bay and he did direct Bad Boys 1 & 2.

And the more i thought about it, the more he was right.
 

-BloodRush-

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tomtom94 said:
Furburt said:
The world would only be truly racially free if a film like this could be released without people even talking about it. Why should there be a fuss? It's a film set in the South, like anywhere, it has black people there. It's the same people who kicked up a fuss when they heard that there was black zombies in L4D2.
As loathe as I am to just quote the current most popular person on the Escapist, he has really hit the nail on the head.

Disney really did milk the publicity they got for the first African/American princess.
popularity contest?

anyway, as soon as i saw the movie poster i knew people were gonna freak out about a black princess.
 

Eekaida

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AvsJoe said:
It's a big deal. Disney is almost every child's third parent growing up (I used to jokingly refer to him as Uncle Wally) but black children, specifically girls, didn't have a black role model of their own. Let me put it to you this way: What if every, say, superhero and supervillain was black and only the occasional sidekick or small villain was white? The first white superhero would be a pretty big deal, wouldn't it?[footnote]I realize that it was the other way around. No need to point it out.[/footnote]
That's a valid point. On the one hand, can you call a Disney princess a role model? On the other hand, Tiana apparently turns that stereotype on its head by being a hard working, responsible girl.

Haha, 'Uncle Wally', makes me laugh. (ps, have you read Malory Blackmans 'Noughts and Crosses'? It covers exactly that premice).

To tell you the truth, I didn't know Jasmine was muslin until I saw the movie on tv a few months ago, and I was a bit surprised. But I suppose children don't think that way, do they? I suppose there's not been much in the news latly and the media needed to something to talk about.
 
Feb 13, 2008
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Mother Yeti said:
The Milly-to-Tiana switch occurred because the character was originally supposed to be a house cook. There was a bit of a negative reaction to that, so they switched it up. I imagine they changed her name because Tiana sounds more "princessy."
And I can't imagine any controversy about having a black cook.

Oh wait....
 

SenseOfTumour

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On the Walt Disney being a racist thing...

I was responding to a thread about HP Lovecraft, the creator of the Cthulhu 'world', and someone stated how he was a racist, and looking into it, there's some reasonable evidence to point to this.

However.

When he was alive, I don't think 'racism' really existed, as it was just assumed that blacks were inferior in all ways to whites. No-one was thinking 'is this really fair to judge a man on skin colour?'.

Who can tell if, bringing Lovecraft and Walt Disney into this era, and educating them as to how things have changed, whether they would accept racial equality or cling to their own 'knowledge' about race.

Really tho, as Sir John said, we'll only get past this crap when people stop caring that there's a black person in it. I'll draw my own lines in the sand and say the princess should be a woman, but that's about it for me.

As for Aladdin coming out now, as a 'new' story, and Islamic extremists claiming jihad on her dress sense and her ideals, well, yes, it probably would happen, as extremists are mental. There's a clue in the name folks! However most muslims wouldn't so much as blink.
 

El Poncho

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May 21, 2009
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Why is it good or bad? Why do we have to think of it as a black character other than a character. If we forget about these things racism will be gone.
 

Eekaida

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Mother Yeti said:
Concerning Aladdin, I do remember there being a minor uproar over a lyric that went along the lines of "they'll cut off your ear if they don't like your face, it's barbaric, but hey, it's home." And there was, in fact, some discussion in Muslim communities over Jasmine's lack of a veil. Ultimately it wasn't a huge deal.

The Milly-to-Tiana switch occurred because the character was originally supposed to be a house cook. There was a bit of a negative reaction to that, so they switched it up. I imagine they changed her name because Tiana sounds more "princessy."

Anyway, your overall point. It's a big deal simply because there hasn't been a black "princess" before. This is significant in the same way Barack Obama is significant, although obviously on a much smaller scale.

In cynical marketing terms, this has a lot do to with the Disney Princess line, which is earning the company an obscene amount of money. All of the characters commonly featured in that line are white. Mulan and Pocahontas are rarely included, and Jasmine (when she is included) is often portrayed wearing more a more European style of dress. One could make the argument that Disney is trying to make this line more marketable to African American children.

Anyway, it's a kick-ass movie. Definitely a return to form for Disney after years of sludge.
I wasn't aware of that. Then again, I was 3 at the time, so I wasn't aware of much. Isn't she still a cook? From what I knew, she was working as a house-girl to save money and open up her own restaraunt, but perhaps that's oversimplified. That Disney Princess stuff makes me shudder.
 

Ren3004

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Jul 22, 2009
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Furburt said:
The world would only be truly racially free if a film like this could be released without people even talking about it.
You said it better that I could have. This was what I thought the last time this issue popped up... Racism will only end when people are all treated the same, and that means not making a big fuss about a film having a black character.
 

AvsJoe

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Eekaida said:
Haha, 'Uncle Wally', makes me laugh. (ps, have you read Malory Blackmans 'Noughts and Crosses'? It covers exactly that premice).
Which premise? The white superhero thing?
 

Azure-Supernova

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Aug 5, 2009
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Furburt said:
The world would only be truly racially free if a film like this could be released without people even talking about it. Why should there be a fuss? It's a film set in the South, like anywhere, it has black people there. It's the same people who kicked up a fuss when they heard that there was black zombies in L4D2.
This.

The only 'big deal' is that it made the papers. Seriously, are we that easily shocked? A black Princess. For God's sake.
 

LogicNProportion

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The_root_of_all_evil said:
Probably entirely due to "Song of the South".

Disney has been accused of being racist since he had his head cryogenically frozen, or the clouds in the Lion King spelt "SEX" or there being a penis on the Little Mermaid's castle.

Make up your own mind about how true/false [http://www.snopes.com/disney/disney.asp] these things are.

Disney just keeps on retelling stories.
Don't forget the crows from Dumbo! :D

Regardless, I went to go see The Princess and the Frog with a girlfriend, both of us expecting it be a terribad, lulzfest. It was surprisingly over-average. Oddly enough, we pointed out plenty of racial stereotyping, still...

We had the theater to ourselves. Good times. Macking and racial jokes. I love that girl.
 

Eekaida

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AvsJoe said:
Eekaida said:
Haha, 'Uncle Wally', makes me laugh. (ps, have you read Malory Blackmans 'Noughts and Crosses'? It covers exactly that premice).
Which premise? The white superhero thing?
Kind of - the racial equalities in the world are switched, so instead of 'dead white males' version of the world, its a 'dead black males' version. The story explores what life and society would be like, which I guess would include superheroes.
 

Hollock

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yeah it's a waaaaay bigger deal that disney's actually drawing movies rather than using computers.
 

VanityGirl

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Furburt said:
The world would only be truly racially free if a film like this could be released without people even talking about it. Why should there be a fuss? It's a film set in the South, like anywhere, it has black people there. It's the same people who kicked up a fuss when they heard that there was black zombies in L4D2.
There were black zombies in L4D2?! =O I didn't see any.


OT: Uhmm... Was this really a big deal? I thought the movie looked cute. I'm from the South, and we're known for being racists here. No one made a big deal about a black princess, everyone just thought the movie looked like a good family film...

=\
 

AvsJoe

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Eekaida said:
AvsJoe said:
Eekaida said:
Haha, 'Uncle Wally', makes me laugh. (ps, have you read Malory Blackmans 'Noughts and Crosses'? It covers exactly that premice).
Which premise? The white superhero thing?
Kind of - the racial equalities in the world are switched, so instead of 'dead white males' version of the world, its a 'dead black males' version. The story explores what life and society would be like, which I guess would include superheroes.
I haven't read the book. I got the idea from a Travolta TV movie called White Man's Burden which is the exact same thing; whites and blacks are switched. It was a real eye-opener for me when it came to racial equality. I wonder if your book inspired my movie.
 

Mother Yeti

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Eekaida said:
I wasn't aware of that. Then again, I was 3 at the time, so I wasn't aware of much. Isn't she still a cook? From what I knew, she was working as a house-girl to save money and open up her own restaraunt, but perhaps that's oversimplified. That Disney Princess stuff makes me shudder.
I'm sorry, I'm getting things confused. The character was originally intended as a chambermaid, not a cook. And her name was Maddy, which people objected to because it sounds a little too much like "mammy," which in the US is a derogatory term for a black woman.
 

Eekaida

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Mother Yeti said:
Eekaida said:
I wasn't aware of that. Then again, I was 3 at the time, so I wasn't aware of much. Isn't she still a cook? From what I knew, she was working as a house-girl to save money and open up her own restaraunt, but perhaps that's oversimplified. That Disney Princess stuff makes me shudder.
I'm sorry, I'm getting things confused. The character was originally intended as a chambermaid, not a cook. And her name was Maddy, which people objected to because it sounds a little too much like "mammy," which in the US is a derogatory term for a black woman.
Mammy? Can't say I've ever heard of that, but I live in England. It would make sense if people objected to that. I guess a chambermaid is more derogotory than a cook too.