Do all women like jerks? No (a rant)

[Hiraeth]

So this originally started as a response to another thread, then I decided that instead of writing the same thing for what feels like the millionth time, when it would inevitably crop up somewhere else tomorrow, I'd rather just make a thread. And thus, this rant was born. Also, this is my first thread, and I understand that henceforth some of you will probably think that I'm a rabid feminist with an evil vagenda, but that's a chance I'm willing to take.

I'm a woman, have been for as long as I can remember. I have a few friends who are women too, some whom I've known for upwards of ten years. One thing that my experiences of women have taught me is that it's near impossible to produce a blueprint for all women any more detailed than 'has a vagina and breasts' and sometimes even that's not entirely accurate. Yes I do have some friends who date guys that treat them like princesses, and I have friends who date guys that treat them like dirt. I also have friends (and I belong to this category) who like their boyfriend to be an equal partner in the relationship. A guy who protects them, and will let them protect him in return, who treats his girlfriend with respect and gets respect from her. As far as I'm concerned, a relationship is a partnership, it's about balance, mutual respect, give and take and other equilibrium related words (as well as things like love, intimacy and sexytime).

I personally do not want to date a guy who does everything for me, pays for every meal, insists on carrying everything for me, buys gifts for me all the time, calls me every half hour and constantly worries about whether or not I'm okay. I'm a woman, not an invalid, I have money and arms and I am capable of looking after myself and occasionally I want to just do my own thing. I want a guy who has his own friends, life and interests outside of our relationship, and who doesn't constantly need me there to support him. I also do not want to date a guy who belittles me, treats me like crap, is rude to my family, insults my friends, doesn't respect my wishes, will never lift a finger to help me and never has time for me. Both of those guys can stay the hell away from me.

What I want to make absolutely clear with this post, is that, yes I am a woman, but I'm also a person, and I'd like to be treated like one. Saying that all women like jerks is as arbitrary and pointless as saying that all men like sluts. Sure, I know guys that do, but I also know guys that look for more than sex, and even some that are waiting until marriage before they get laid. I'm sick of seeing people appearing on this forum with an axe to grind about how they'll never find a woman because they're not horrible enough for women to be attracted to them. I'm tired of feeling like I, and everyone else with a vagina, am being blamed for the fact that some guys have had bad experiences with some girls.

Yes, many of you probably have met awful women in your lives. Maybe they were rude to you when you were just trying to be chivalrous, maybe they treated you like a combined butler and atm. Maybe you got stuck in the friend zone while they dated someone who you could see was never going to treat them right. I am not denying that these women exist, I've even met some of them. I don't think I'm one of them, and for the most part my friends aren't either.

With that in mind, I hope I have made it clear that I realize that not all guys think like this. Sadly the few that do have managed to piss me off that I decided to come on here and yell for a bit. So in the spirit of growing as people, I'd like to suggest that we stop generalizing and move on. Except that since everyone on this forum is just a sexist, overgrown man-child I guess that's that's never going to happen (note: this was a joke).

Wow that ended up being long. Okay, nearly finished.

A quick note on confidence: Yes, confidence can be sexy, which is one explanation for why jerks get laid. I'm of the 'well if you're not confident and you don't love yourself, then how can you expect someone else to fall in love with you' camp. Get confidence in yourself, make your own friends, get involved in your own hobbies, take care of your appearance etc. and when you least expect it you'll probably meet someone who thinks you're awesome and wants to be a part of your life. Personally I think that's a pretty good strategy regardless of gender.


tl:dr? Yes some women like to date jerks. Some women also like to date 'nice guys', men that respect them, men who are Asian, men with big donkey dicks, men with beards, men who have good relationships with their mothers, men who snowboard, men with tattoos, men who are Christian, men who play WoW, etc. etc. Some women even like to date other women, or don't like to date at all. Can we stop generalizing now please?


So, what do you guys think? Do women actually like jerks, do they hate jerks, do we need to move on from this whole stupid thing, are feminists ruining everything for everyone, do I need to get my butt back in the kitchen, are we actually all slaves to our biology and really just looking for the strongest potential mates, do I need a poll for this thread? I'd love to hear your opinions. Thanks for reading.


Yes, I used the search function and got a bunch of threads like 'how to talk to women', 'why nice guys finish last' and the like, plus comments in other threads where this has popped up. I don't think there's anything similar enough that I should have posted in there, but if that turns out to be the case, I apologize and will accept any punishment you see fit to deliver unto me.

 

[RaphaelsRedemption]

AMEN!

...Seriously, thank you SO much.

The relationship threads on this forum fall so often into generalisations about women, that I have started avoiding them, knowing that if I read, I'll only end up internally raging while some guy states that "All women are complicated and never mean what they say" or "Girls just fall for jerks; so be a jerk" or stuff like that.

I know not all guys here think like that; what makes me angry is amount of times I've seen those generalisations thrown around without comment or question. I don't go on the relationship forums and state obviously wrong generalisations about guys, and if I did, there would be a lot of guys putting me right very soon.

And, like the OP said, what's with the whole semi-resentment of chicks thing this place has going? I try to be a nice chick, but it seems I should hide it around here lest I spend the rest of my life being judged by these aforementioned opinions on women.

This place has a LOT of guys and not many girls. I understand when I post here, I do it in a male-dominated forum. However, I don't think a male-dominated place should be necessarily hostile to women or unwilling to consider that maybe, just maybe, there are a few girls out there who do not fit into their pre-conceived ideas of women, who just want to participate and discuss stuff, and (shock, horror!) actually be nice.

I'm a nice person, and so are a lot of girls. Give us a chance!

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Most "why don't girls like nice guys?" threads are very thinly veiled "why can't I manipulate the woman I'm stalking into my bed?" threads. They give me the shits.

Plus the whinging little shits are often chasing some unobtainable idealised version of a woman and shunning many of the 'plainer' yet far more interesting birds.

 

[RatRace123]

Speaking as a man, I agree with you.
I think the opinion that all women like jerks stems from resentment or maybe a bad experience in school, but that's how school systems work. Kids are horrible horrible little people, and jerks rule, outside, once you step into the real world, you realize just how varied and beyond expectation people can be.

That was a bit of a generalization in itself, but I believe many of the users here are still in school. (Not college). And, at times when I was in school, I myself believed that girls only liked jerks, it's due to hormones and sexual frustration... at least I think; I'm not a psychologist, I just play one on the internet.

 

[New Troll]

Personally I just believe it seems like jerks get all the girls cause they're the ones constantly asking said girls out. I believe they get shot down quite a bit, but it only takes one to say yes for them to get that girl. And just cause that girl said yes, doesn't mean she likes jerks. Just means there was something either about him she liked or there might even be other reasons, like maybe lonliness or boredom.

Yes, some girls do like jerks. Just like how some guys like jerks too.

 

[Blue_vision]

AMEN!

...Seriously, thank you SO much.

The relationship threads on this forum fall so often into generalisations about women, that I have started avoiding them, knowing that if I read, I'll only end up internally raging while some guy states that "All women are complicated and never mean what they say" or "Girls just fall for jerks; so be a jerk" or stuff like that.

I know not all guys here think like that; what makes me angry is amount of times I've seen those generalisations thrown around without comment or question. I don't go on the relationship forums and state obviously wrong generalisations about guys, and if I did, there would be a lot of guys putting me right very soon.

And, like the OP said, what's with the whole semi-resentment of chicks thing this place has going? I try to be a nice chick, but it seems I should hide it around here lest I spend the rest of my life being judged by these aforementioned opinions on women.

This place has a LOT of guys and not many girls. I understand when I post here, I do it in a male-dominated forum. However, I don't think a male-dominated place should be necessarily hostile to women or unwilling to consider that maybe, just maybe, there are a few girls out there who do not fit into their pre-conceived ideas of women, who just want to participate and discuss stuff, and (shock, horror!) actually be nice.

I'm a nice person, and so are a lot of girls. Give us a chance!

Amen to that amen. My experience has been that girls don't generally care one way or another. As a nice guy, I've actually had tonnes of girls doing odd gender reversal things like ask me out. People just like people that click with them. Do guys only like rebellious girls, or submissive girls? A quick tally of high school crushes could easily disprove that, and there's no difference between men and women.

I like gender equality. Having the simple predisposition that there's not a lot difference in between how an XX ticks and an XY does could do a lot of good for society and individuals within.

Yes, some girls do like jerks. Just like how some guys like jerks too.

I think that's "bitches" in bro speak.
EDIT: "bitchez"
SUPEREDIT: Unless you're gay, in which case "jerks" would be the appropriate term. Archaic french gender-based nouns and all.

 

[Dags90]

I'm a woman, have been for as long as I can remember.

That must have been Hell on your mother's vagina.

There's very much an undercurrent of gender prejudice prevalent in this forum, which isn't particularly shocking considering the lingering effects of sexism on Western culture in general. Sometimes it can lead to rather odd head scratch moments. After I had come out to my mother and started talking about dating guys, I got a long rant on how I should be on constant guard because men are jerks who are only out for sex. I had to explain after she was done that I did in fact still have a penis.

I also really dislike the term "*****" as a pejorative sometimes.

 

[Eri]

I agree mostly, but~

I want a guy who has his own friends, life and interests outside of our relationship, and who doesn't constantly need me there to support him.

You want a guy who doesn't need you there to support him. Isn't that kinda half the point of finding someone? So you can support each other? I mean I understand many people don't like clingy-ness, but this kinda sounds like you want to date someone just to say you're in a relationship.

 

[RaphaelsRedemption]

Most "why don't girls like nice guys?" threads are very thinly veiled "why can't I manipulate the woman I'm stalking into my bed?" threads. They give me the shits.

Plus the whinging little shits are often chasing some unobtainable idealised version of a woman and shunning many of the 'plainer' yet far more interesting birds.

That made me laugh so hard. Thank you!

 

[Vivvav]

Madame, I love your use of parentheses. "(note: this was a joke)" was the classiest and most hilarious way you could have put that.
Writing style aside, thank you. I am male, and so sick of other guys bitching. I have no confidence with women. I realize this. That is not some asshole who does have confidence's fault, and I am sick of my fellow unconfident men blaming others where blame is not deserved.
Oh and also I love the word "vagenda".

 

[joebthegreat]

I want to thank you for giving me the quote: "I'm a rabid feminist with an evil vag"

 

[Sandernista]

You had me at 'Vagenda'

 

[PersonalRiot]

I have almost never posted, and I must due to this OP being so well done. Kudos, I agree fully. To the men out there, never become a jerk to attractive members of the opposite gender. You are only hurting yourself and the image of all men in the process.

 

[Nimcha]

Most "why don't girls like nice guys?" threads are very thinly veiled "why can't I manipulate the woman I'm stalking into my bed?" threads. They give me the shits.

Plus the whinging little shits are often chasing some unobtainable idealised version of a woman and shunning many of the 'plainer' yet far more interesting birds.

Hah, crude yet true. I always find those threads incomprehensable as well. Why would you even want to date a woman who likes being treated like crap?

 

[Blair Bennett]

...I've never been so proud to be an Escapist...did someone just make an attempt at having a rational discussion about this?

My opinion is a near carbon copy of your own, that being that though certain women do enjoy being in relationships with people who are obviously not interested in a healthy, mutually engaging relationship, this is not applicable to every female Homo sapian in existence. In fact, it is about as common a trait as any other, and little more than uninformed when applied to all women.

I hate generalizations, they are the bane of my existence. Physically, I appear to be a short, arrogant, pseudo-emo ginger girl, who may or may not be homosexual. I am aware that, perhaps I perhaps I am these things, however, I would prefer that people found that out on their own, rather than simply assume. As a result of this, I tend to avoid making generalizations myself; about men, women, religious fanatics, peanut butter fetishists, whoever. Because of this, I'm often quite insulted when people decide that they know what I'm like better than I do.

On another note, I am in complete agreement with your opinion on relationships. I don't quite understand why people feel as though they need to choose between absolutes; gruff indifference to one another, and sickening, never ending romance.

 

[Gxas]

Yes some women like to date jerks. Some women also like to date 'nice guys', men that respect them, men who are Asian, men with big donkey dicks, men with beards, men who have good relationships with their mothers, men who snowboard, men with tattoos, men who are Christian, men who play WoW, etc. etc. Some women even like to date other women, or don't like to date at all. Can we stop generalizing now please?

Fat men? Skinny men? Men who climb on rocks!?

I very much agree with what you have said. I finally decided to stop being down on myself about girls who picked other guys over me and moved on from them. Met a wonderful girl who, in all honesty, is probably the woman I am going to end up marrying.

You're right, not all girls date jerks. You just have to keep your eyes open for the right one at all times.

 

[Hiraeth]

Thanks for the responses everyone, good to know I'm not the only person who notices these things.

Most "why don't girls like nice guys?" threads are very thinly veiled "why can't I manipulate the woman I'm stalking into my bed?" threads. They give me the shits.

Plus the whinging little shits are often chasing some unobtainable idealised version of a woman and shunning many of the 'plainer' yet far more interesting birds.

I can't agree with this enough. The whole hunting strategy discussion that some of those threads turn into can be downright creepy.

I'm a woman, have been for as long as I can remember.

That must have been Hell on your mother's vagina.

You wouldn't believe the re-constructive surgery she had to go through. On the bright side it meant my baby sister practically fell out when it was her turn.

I agree mostly, but~

I want a guy who has his own friends, life and interests outside of our relationship, and who doesn't constantly need me there to support him.

You want a guy who doesn't need you there to support him. Isn't that kinda half the point of finding someone? So you can support each other? I mean I understand many people don't like clingy-ness, but this kinda sounds like you want to date someone just to say you're in a relationship.

Yeah I hear what you're saying. I guess what I meant was, yes there's the emotional support there, but he doesn't need me there to help him make every mundane decision of his life. If I want to date someone it's because I really like them and enjoy spending time with them, rather than because I need their constant support. Is that any clearer?

AMEN!

...Seriously, thank you SO much.

The relationship threads on this forum fall so often into generalisations about women, that I have started avoiding them, knowing that if I read, I'll only end up internally raging while some guy states that "All women are complicated and never mean what they say" or "Girls just fall for jerks; so be a jerk" or stuff like that.

I know not all guys here think like that; what makes me angry is amount of times I've seen those generalisations thrown around without comment or question. I don't go on the relationship forums and state obviously wrong generalisations about guys, and if I did, there would be a lot of guys putting me right very soon.

You're welcome! I used to try and respond to threads like that, but what ends up happening lately is I'll start writing something, then give up and do something else instead. I feel like it never seems to make a difference so why bother? And then I got really ranty and came and made this. So... yeah...

 

[Eri]

Yeah I hear what you're saying. I guess what I meant was, yes there's the emotional support there, but he doesn't need me there to help him make every mundane decision of his life. If I want to date someone it's because I really like them and enjoy spending time with them, rather than because I need their constant support. Is that any clearer?

Yes, that's more clear =P

 

[VanityGirl]

Thanks for the rant. It's hard to be a female on this site sometimes when those threads pop up. I know I don't date jerks! I'm a female and as such, not ALL females date jerks.

This will offend some:

Most guys who make those "girls only like jerks" threads are the guys who think of themselves as 'nice guys'. This means they are in reality the shy stalker guy in the corner who can't even say Hello to a girl without peeing his pants.

I've written several long responses to those threads and it does make me feel a bit ranty. How can one assume women only like jerks? That is like saying all guys want is a village bicycle (everyone's had a ride... a slut). Maybe some do, but say all is a gross generalization.

Rabble Rabble Rabble.