Do you ever get tired of the samuri sword?
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I actually try and keep away from Exotic Weaponry when it comes to writing, since the Katana is an overused sword. But I should actually be using it because I write science fiction, and the Katana is the most advanced sword on the planet. When people put the sword to use on a random beefcake or kickbutt barby doll, they usually remain ignorant to the swords actual use and meaning. The only film where I've seen it be used for both Kickassery and 'use and meaning' was in Kill Bill.
Scimitar > katana ... Indian, Arabic and Western European backswords are better in combat.Celtic_Kerr said:
Especially the talwar, for that featured a perfectly hacheted blade ... more powerful, causes brutal wounds ...
Whether on horseback, camel, indoors, outdoors .... can't go past Persian / Indian blades when you talk about swords.
But all things pale to the Swiss halberdier ...
Swiss Halberdier > Samurai ... for Halberd > naginata
One ting that always confused me: Highlander. Why does a Scotsman use a Japanese sword? Wouldn't it make more sense for him to use a claymore? Is the katana the pinnacle of swords? Wouldn't another sword have greater reach?
He had a personal attachment to the sword. Duncan spent some time in Japan (during 1600s I think), and the sword belonged to the family of a mortal woman he fell in love with. I belive she was killed because it was found she was harbouring a foerginer (Duncan), so he carries it in her memory.Blindswordmaster said:
(Im baseing all my info of the 90s TV show that I watched, so I may be blowing smoke)
I'd like to see someone actually try to do that though. The amount of accuracy would be insane and impractical.HankMan said:
I do believe you that it was written like that in the chronicles of some historian. but you really should learn something about written sources from feudal medieval times before trying to make someone believe even 30% of its content. I can give you historical sources about european knights getting beheaded, killing 200 foes afterwards AND surviving the whole situation.sapphireofthesea said:
That it was written alone should make you suspisious. Chronicles werent written out of boredom. These works were ordered and paid by the nobility with pretty clear intensions.
...wow... that's a lot of strong opinions I just read...
Anyway, a couple of misconceptions to clear up:
Folded steel, defects, wear, and why katanas can slice better than most swords-
The Japanese forged their blades like this because the only iron ore they had access to was in the form of sand. The easiest steel to make out of iron sand is thin sheets. So yes, they press-welded, and press-welding is hard to do without making mistakes... which lead to defects in a sword... which is why Japanese sword makers spend decades learning their craft. But the quality of the blades was not a result of the folding/press-welding process. The quality is a result of the painstaking effort put into designing and forging each individual blade.
So why can they slice soft targets better? Differential tempering. A regular, well-made tempered steel blade is very hard steel. Somewhere around 50-70 on the Rockwell hardness scale. A katana is about that hardness on the spine of the blade, where they put clay during the tempering process to dampen the heat of the forge. The edge of the blade, exposed to the full heat of the forge, winds up at around 80-100 on the Rockwell hardness scale. If the entire sword was that hard, it would be brittle and inflexible.... with just the edge that hard, there is much less give to the cutting surface of the blade, making it less likely to turn during a cut.
and that was in completely self-trained hands (not mine, I took a few classes)
Another side-effect of differential tempering is edge retention. With steel that hard, the edge will stay sharp through more cuts than with a through-tempered blade. Also, when the blade is sharpened, there is less chance of taking off too much material (and the sharpening process takes longer). So they really last longer than a through-tempered western sword (unless you try to cut steel or something with one... they really can't cut through a tank). There are blades that were used in combat during the Edo period that are still battle-ready today.
I won't argue that the katana is great against chain or plate armor. It's not, it wasn't designed for that. Chain armor is best beaten by stabbing with a thin-tipped blade, and plate armor is best beaten with a warhammer.
...
OT: do I ever get tired of Japanese swords? Yes. I'm quite tired of their incorrect depiction in fiction, and sometimes if I swing mine enough times, my arms get tired. But I still love the things.
Anyway, a couple of misconceptions to clear up:
Folded steel, defects, wear, and why katanas can slice better than most swords-
The Japanese forged their blades like this because the only iron ore they had access to was in the form of sand. The easiest steel to make out of iron sand is thin sheets. So yes, they press-welded, and press-welding is hard to do without making mistakes... which lead to defects in a sword... which is why Japanese sword makers spend decades learning their craft. But the quality of the blades was not a result of the folding/press-welding process. The quality is a result of the painstaking effort put into designing and forging each individual blade.
So why can they slice soft targets better? Differential tempering. A regular, well-made tempered steel blade is very hard steel. Somewhere around 50-70 on the Rockwell hardness scale. A katana is about that hardness on the spine of the blade, where they put clay during the tempering process to dampen the heat of the forge. The edge of the blade, exposed to the full heat of the forge, winds up at around 80-100 on the Rockwell hardness scale. If the entire sword was that hard, it would be brittle and inflexible.... with just the edge that hard, there is much less give to the cutting surface of the blade, making it less likely to turn during a cut.
and that was in completely self-trained hands (not mine, I took a few classes)
I won't argue that the katana is great against chain or plate armor. It's not, it wasn't designed for that. Chain armor is best beaten by stabbing with a thin-tipped blade, and plate armor is best beaten with a warhammer.
...
OT: do I ever get tired of Japanese swords? Yes. I'm quite tired of their incorrect depiction in fiction, and sometimes if I swing mine enough times, my arms get tired. But I still love the things.
Do you know what is the best weapon against a katana?
That's right, a straigth wood stick.
That's what caused Miyamoto Musashi, aka Japan's greatest swordman, only defeat. I forgot the name of the man who beat him, sorry.
It takes quite a bit of training, though, because any mistake has bad bad consequences.
That's right, a straigth wood stick.
That's what caused Miyamoto Musashi, aka Japan's greatest swordman, only defeat. I forgot the name of the man who beat him, sorry.
It takes quite a bit of training, though, because any mistake has bad bad consequences.
Quite well explained.Xanadu84 said:
The folding of steel, or pattern welding was common in Europe and the middle east long before the dark ages even began. During the dark ages some European swords were named and known because they were very good. Which might indicate that the technique wasn't quite six sigma ready in Europe. Although, this is just my own speculation. Later on, in the middle ages the use of better steel in Europe and the middle east meant swords were more widely available at good quality, making them less "elite".
Also the fact that there isn't that big a variation in katana's whereas Europe and the Middle East fielded a wider variety and more specialised swords means the katana is a far more recognisable "brand".
That one scene in Pulp Fiction cemented the Katana as the most badass film weapon of all time in my mind.
A katana is very unlikely too cut through military grade medieval chainmail, although it may be possible to stab through it, but the katana is not as efficient at stabbing (curved shape of blade = not as aerodynamic as a straight bladed sword.)sapphireofthesea said:
As someone has already said, take medieval historical accounts with a pinch of salt, there are plenty of accounts of western knights slicing through huge trees in a single stroke, Richard the Lionheart supposedly cut a blacksmiths anvil in two in a single stroke, an several accounts of knights cutting through a fully armoured knight and the armoured horse he was riding on in one stoke. Japan also has a lot of splurious claims, I remember one about a relative of Genghis Kahn supposedly achieving an impossibly far and 100% accurate kill with his bow while hunting.
Heck, There was even a battle between ancient Egypt and Syria, and we don't know who won the battle, because both sides claimed a great victory.