Do you know ANYONE who has actually gone from gay to straight post-puberty?

[funguy2121]

The issue here is not biological, for the most part, it is psychological.

And I know of a man who spent his early teens and adulthood as a gay man and shortly before 30 declared himself straight. He is currently married and has 2 children.

No, he didn't turn to religion or anything. He simply decided he would be happier a straight person, and stopped seeing men.

Did he really stop? Only he would know. But he's been steady with women for some time now. No angst, no internal dilemma. Simply his personal decision of changing his sexual outlook.

Do whatever makes you happy and fuck everyone else.

Are you saying we should all be bisexual?

*trollface.jpg*

He gave that to you. He said, here, have at it.

 

[funguy2121]

Kept reading. The "author" of your link also thinks that Link should die "because he's gay" (paraphrased).

Sites like this pop up every day if not every few hours. Please, find one that isn't so insufferably virginal. It's the 11th year of the 21st century. Grownups who are secure in their own sexuality, who don't secretly fear that they might have gay feelings for someone, do not insult each other by calling each other "homo."

I'm getting wordy.

True, now I look, 5 warnings from 12 posts, not good is it?

Did you look at the posts before trying to insult me? I've made thousands of posts. Everything I've posted in this thread is relevant and I've insulted nary an Escapist today.

Reported, for threatening.

Edit: Wow. all of the above content was intended for another thread. That may have confused some people.

 

[ToMuchAtOnce]

snip

This person is right. Genetics is not the be all and end all, go look up some research into neuroplasticy . Environment has as much effect as genetic, to argue one or the other would be simply erroneous and reductionist. As to the people saying you can't think and change our behaviour. Should read up about the success of cognitive behavioural therapy. Whilst I'm not saying CBT will change your sexuality, I'm just pointing out you cannot ignore social factors when it comes to such an abstract idea as sexuality.

 

[The-Epicly-Named-Man]

If a person has found himself or herself (theirself?) attracted to both sexes during their lifetime, then that person is, to a degree that perhaps Kinsey or one of his contemporaries could articulate better than I, a bisexual person.

Themselves, I believe. Sorry, that's genuinely all I wanted to point out from your post.

Edit: Actually, f*ck, that doesn't fit the context. Sorry D: .

 

[ToMuchAtOnce]

Education and hormones have no effect on a person's sexuality. If you're born gay, you will always be gay and I cannot stress this enough.

I'm curious as to how exactly you are so sure of this, there have been hundreds of studies conducted in search for a combination of "homosexual trigger genes" and none have been able to conclusively disprove the null hypothesis. Please refer me to the geneticist who is telling you otherwise.

Sexual behavior is affected by a HUGE range of factors: cultural education, gender identity, social evolution, etc etc.

You cant seriously believe the old eugenic fallacy that a person's personality is utterly predetermined by his DNA.

Maybe not DNA, least not in the way a lot of people would think (anything to do with the brain is murky as hell) but there are clear structural differences in the set up of the brain between gay and straight people of the same gender that then tend to match the structures in straight people of the opposite gender in the people identifying as gay.

why this happens has a big fucking question mark over it, but it is hard baked in to the structure of the individuals brain.

EDIT: and a link the the article describing the research [http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14146-gay-brains-structured-like-those-of-the-opposite-sex.html]

The brain's structure changes to an extent throughout it's lifetime. Now im not a neuroscientist, but neuroplasticy can and does occur; see Maguire.et al and the remapping of the homunculus (brain map) to adapt to physical changes. What's to say their brain changed once they adopted the gay lifestyle, moreover surely if they became heterosexual the brain may change again?

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

A MAN OF SCIENCE!

Spoiler

Well done. Just well done. This is very well written, understandable and still rooted in fact and pure solid science to be undeniably a reasonable set of ideas. I like it. People should do their research. You cannot say " ALL OF X IS Y because I SAY SO". People WILL be exceptions to your rules and that DOES make you wrong. This explanation covers all bases, and has no exceptions making it far more likely to be true than the "never change" and "always change" camps.

 

[cookyy2k]

Education and hormones have no effect on a person's sexuality. If you're born gay, you will always be gay and I cannot stress this enough.

I'm curious as to how exactly you are so sure of this, there have been hundreds of studies conducted in search for a combination of "homosexual trigger genes" and none have been able to conclusively disprove the null hypothesis. Please refer me to the geneticist who is telling you otherwise.

Sexual behavior is affected by a HUGE range of factors: cultural education, gender identity, social evolution, etc etc.

You cant seriously believe the old eugenic fallacy that a person's personality is utterly predetermined by his DNA.

Maybe not DNA, least not in the way a lot of people would think (anything to do with the brain is murky as hell) but there are clear structural differences in the set up of the brain between gay and straight people of the same gender that then tend to match the structures in straight people of the opposite gender in the people identifying as gay.

why this happens has a big fucking question mark over it, but it is hard baked in to the structure of the individuals brain.

EDIT: and a link the the article describing the research [http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14146-gay-brains-structured-like-those-of-the-opposite-sex.html]

The brain's structure changes to an extent throughout it's lifetime. Now im not a neuroscientist, but neuroplasticy can and does occur; see Maguire.et al and the remapping of the homunculus (brain map) to adapt to physical changes. What's to say their brain changed once they adopted the gay lifestyle, moreover surely if they became heterosexual the brain may change again?

Well that's all I can put my dramatic change down to (see earlier post) some major "re-wiring" process due to hormonal changes or something.

 

[floppylobster]

Never for guys. But I have known about three girls over the years.

 

[TheHecatomb]

When asking questions like this, please include a poll. Because really, the only thing I can answer is "No.", which would be too short for Escapist standards even though it answers the OP's question 100%.

 

[cookyy2k]

Funny how people can play Mass Effect and get into relationships with aliens, and then talk about controversy surrounding people who love their own species.

Am I the only one who feels like we're in a societal dark age, here? You know what, I'm taking my "screw the extremist Christians and general homophobes" vibe to a whole new level, and say that I'd do it with an alien. A guy alien. Preferably reptilian.

Did you read any of this thread? We're not talking controversy, we're not even talking homophobia, we're having a debate over whether the above has occurred or not and the ways in which it could have occurred. Stop jumping to the conclusion that all threads about homosexuality will be homophobic.

 

[Filiecs]

snip

You win the thread.

OT: Personally, no but I believe that, if someone wills it to be so hard enough, then yes they can change their sexuality.
Also, why all the hate towards people that think it can be changed? Sure proving that sexuality can't be changed would shut up most intolerant people, but did they really have a good excuse to be intolerant in the first place? Wouldn't teacing people to be tolerent of other people and their choices be MORE beneficial to society then just saying "You'd better accept it because that's the way it is."?

 

[The Funslinger]

The issue here is not biological, for the most part, it is psychological.

And I know of a man who spent his early teens and adulthood as a gay man and shortly before 30 declared himself straight. He is currently married and has 2 children.

No, he didn't turn to religion or anything. He simply decided he would be happier a straight person, and stopped seeing men.

Did he really stop? Only he would know. But he's been steady with women for some time now. No angst, no internal dilemma. Simply his personal decision of changing his sexual outlook.

What irks me is when people try to justify homosexuality by saying it's not a choice. "Oh, they don't mean to, so it's okay!"

No, I think it isn't for some people, but some people can choose. Does that give them any less right to be gay? No. It shouldn't have to not be a choice, because there's nothing wrong with choosing it.

(I for the record am straight, but think everyone should do some serious soul searching.)

 

[ToMuchAtOnce]

Well that's all I can put my dramatic change down to (see earlier post) some major "re-wiring" process due to hormonal changes or something.

I couldn't say either. Though logical reasoning would suggest it's probably a mix of nature and nurture.

 

[StarsintheBlood]

I've known a guy who went from gay to straight, but it was only because he fell in love with this one girl. He says that if it weren't for her, he'd still be gay, but her personality made him fall in love with her. So I guess personality>gender in that one case. He says he's not attracted to any other women or men anymore, only her. Weird? Absolutely. Sweet? Also yes.

Everyone's different. *shrugs*

 

[lwm3398]

Quite possibly the largest snip I've ever made.

Spoiler: Just one small point.

I knew my own sexuality at least five years before puberty, and I hit puberty at twelve. I was exposed to female nudity at around 3 or 4 (in the form of magazines I found), but I have no sexual memories to do with it. I do, however, remember choosing to search for "boobies" online at around age 5. Perhaps this is proof of me being straight, perhaps not. Just presenting the point that, at least in my case, I discovered my sexuality early.

I'm not sure if this fact came from a scientifically reliable source, but I have heard that no human can be truly one way or the other. Since we've assigned emotional ties to sexual ones, we aren't only looking for a reproductive mate anymore. We don't only want to further our genes, we want companionship. Because of that, we are all bisexual in some small way and could possibly find the companionship we're looking for in someone of the same gender, whether as friends or as mates.

This is (to my understanding) the reason why we don't have "alpha males" any more- We are just bisexual enough to be social and feel equal with and to our own gender. Like anything, though, there are varying degrees. Some are only social with the same gender, while others are curious sexually and others are sexual completely (which is not to say that gay people can't have non-gay friends of the same gender, but I think my point was made).

 

[Yopaz]

I haven't heard about it, but I would assume it's quite normal. Hormones are messed up during puberty so it wouldn't be strange if someone would change sexuality, or desires from puberty to a more stable state.

 

[cookyy2k]

snip

This is (to my understanding) the reason why we don't have "alpha males" any more- We are just bisexual enough to be social and feel equal with and to our own gender. Like anything, though, there are varying degrees. Some are only social with the same gender, while others are curious sexually and others are sexual completely (which is not to say that gay people can't have non-gay friends of the same gender, but I think my point was made).

To be honest I think you can spot "alpha male" behaviour though, any group of chavs becomes more insulting and violent to outsiders given the presence of some female in the group. I have walked past many a group of chav with no issue, the times I have had random abuse and/or assaults the group has always contained some female and the guys have been trying to one up each other to impress or something, which I would call an attempt at alpha behaviour.

Generally in the real world of intelligent members of the species the disappearance of "alphas" is true but I think it's largly due to intelligence this has happened, due to above arguments.

 

[C_Topher]

The issue here is not biological, for the most part, it is psychological.

And I know of a man who spent his early teens and adulthood as a gay man and shortly before 30 declared himself straight. He is currently married and has 2 children.

No, he didn't turn to religion or anything. He simply decided he would be happier a straight person, and stopped seeing men.

Did he really stop? Only he would know. But he's been steady with women for some time now. No angst, no internal dilemma. Simply his personal decision of changing his sexual outlook.

What irks me is when people try to justify homosexuality by saying it's not a choice. "Oh, they don't mean to, so it's okay!"

No, I think it isn't for some people, but some people can choose. Does that give them any less right to be gay? No. It shouldn't have to not be a choice, because there's nothing wrong with choosing it.

(I for the record am straight, but think everyone should do some serious soul searching.)

It's just not that simple. As already stated in this thread, sexual orientation has a strong biological factor that isn't fully understood. It's like handedness. There's evidence that you can be genetically predisposed to be left handed (http://www.nature.com/mp/journal/v12/n12/full/4002053a.html), but it's still not a guarantee. You can't just boil it down to a choice.

I agree that soul searching is in order, but not to choose what you. Rather, you should do so to UNDERSTAND what you are.

 

[lwm3398]

To be honest I think you can spot "alpha male" behaviour though, any group of chavs becomes more insulting and violent to outsiders given the presence of some female in the group. I have walked past many a group of chav with no issue, the times I have had random abuse and/or assaults the group has always contained some female and the guys have been trying to one up each other to impress or something, which I would call an attempt at alpha behaviour.

Generally in the real world of intelligent members of the species the disappearance of "alphas" is true but I think it's largly due to intelligence this has happened, due to above arguments.

I assumed someone would make that argument. But, I don't think that's true alpha behavior. While they may have a quote-unquote leader, they don't all grovel at his feet and leave the person who is obviously HIS, the LEADER'S, "property." With primates, you have a group of them with one leader who gets all of the females. If one primate decided he wanted all of the females, he would have to either kill or brutally kick the crap out of the original alpha male. Even if he wanted to take one female, that challenger would be swiftly dealt with because no one but the alpha gets to have them.

The reason for this is, only the strongest and best genes survive, so only the strongest and best gets to breed with the females. He needs no male friends, because he is the king. All he needs is a harem of potential wives and nannies to raise his young and he can relax and do nothing. This, in species not as evolved as us, is the epitome of life: Genes furthered and life is easy. This is because, mentally, a primate is not evolved enough to seek social or emotional companionship in either gender of his species, because his point in life is to create children and keep his genetic line going. He is completely straight, and has no need for males as anything other than food-gatherers for him.

With chavs, they are all allowed to try and one up each other. This is because there is no true alpha male, there are only 5 or 6 equal regular males competing for a female. Social equality with no "ONE TRUE LEADER." This is a sign of slight bisexuality, because we allow ourselves to be equal with members of the same gender.