God no, I love the fact that in 5-10 years time, playing a game with a girlfriend etc. will be considered normal
Do you wish gaming was still "just for nerds"?
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No, I'm tired of games being a media scapegoat. Also, why wouldn't I want more people to enjoy the hobby?
That's what the hipsters say.Bobic said:
OT: I wasn't really around when gaming was a niche hobby so I can't really say I do wish it was like the good ol' days. However I do sometimes wish that it wasn't as popular as it is, mainly because now that it is rather popular, it's turned into something that big business wants to cash in on for as little money as possible. Enter cheap knock offs and lack of innovation.
A little bit so we might have a chance of getting more unique and innovative games... With all the douchebag hardcore gamers out there that only play Halo and Call of Duty on 360, we well... get a bunch of Halo/CoD clones and 360 is favored over everything... :/
In a way yes, in some ways no. It's nice that gaming has become more accessible and accepted in the mainstream as a form of entertainment and art in itself. There has also been some great innovations in the quest for originality and success.
However those have come with a very heavy price...namely the quality and variety of games. As good as mass effect 2 was for example, the role playing played second fiddle to the cover-based shooter. Neverending cover based shooters, the neverending Call of Duty cashcow franchise (which is more movie than game now), the consolisation and "broadened appeal" of all games now to cater for the largest audience means generally less depth, less of the games we (or I at least) love and that PC gaming, previously the cutting edge benchmark is on the decline, most likely never to recover.
Films have almost always catered to the "lowest common denominator" with only indie and arty directors brave enough to tread new ground, as does generally the majority of TV. It's sad that games have gone that way, sad that there will likely never be another game quite as good as BGII, Deus Ex, the original Thief or Hitman among others. If games were still made for a target audience instead of trying to appeal to the mass markets, I for one would be much, much, much, much, much, much happier. Leave the Command & Conquers to the RTS lovers, the Gears of Wars to the cover based shooting lovers, CoD to the...sheep and I'll have the puzzle and riddle filled, character developing, epic party based RPGs thank you very much!
But just as Hollywood execs who hold the money and control the industry insist studios churn out money-grabbing garbage like the Pirates film, so to do EA and Activision have a lot to answer for. I can understand that business and money-making would be the priority however...I just don't have to like it. The best I can do is not spend a penny on the crap they give us, buy only on the good stuff and hope that as many people as can do the same till it goes away or changes...which is of course naive and foolish in the extreme...
However those have come with a very heavy price...namely the quality and variety of games. As good as mass effect 2 was for example, the role playing played second fiddle to the cover-based shooter. Neverending cover based shooters, the neverending Call of Duty cashcow franchise (which is more movie than game now), the consolisation and "broadened appeal" of all games now to cater for the largest audience means generally less depth, less of the games we (or I at least) love and that PC gaming, previously the cutting edge benchmark is on the decline, most likely never to recover.
Films have almost always catered to the "lowest common denominator" with only indie and arty directors brave enough to tread new ground, as does generally the majority of TV. It's sad that games have gone that way, sad that there will likely never be another game quite as good as BGII, Deus Ex, the original Thief or Hitman among others. If games were still made for a target audience instead of trying to appeal to the mass markets, I for one would be much, much, much, much, much, much happier. Leave the Command & Conquers to the RTS lovers, the Gears of Wars to the cover based shooting lovers, CoD to the...sheep and I'll have the puzzle and riddle filled, character developing, epic party based RPGs thank you very much!
But just as Hollywood execs who hold the money and control the industry insist studios churn out money-grabbing garbage like the Pirates film, so to do EA and Activision have a lot to answer for. I can understand that business and money-making would be the priority however...I just don't have to like it. The best I can do is not spend a penny on the crap they give us, buy only on the good stuff and hope that as many people as can do the same till it goes away or changes...which is of course naive and foolish in the extreme...
Honestly, no.
Yeah, my excitement in some games has suffered in a way (I used to be giddy for Halo releases until they started doing Mountain Dew promotions and shit to the point where it was insufferable) but we need this.
No, not for acceptance or to be "taken seriously as a medium," but to get rid of the pretentiousness, ivory towers, high horses and preconceptions that plague us so.
Games are art except for the ones that aren't. And my games are the highest art and your Farmville isn't even a game. Consoles are lesser and PCs are supreme, it's all your fault that the industry suffers. All you play is Madden and Call of Duty, I'm a better and smarter gamer because I play Half-Life and Final Fantasy...All that bullshit needs to disappear. The more people that enjoy all sorts of games without needing a reason, the better we'll be as a community, and that means far more to me than games as an "art form." It's not about becoming "cool" or "accepted" or having any sort of comeuppance at all.
I don't believe for half a second that games are suffering due to an expanded audience. The best developers will always be the best and the visionaries will keep trying to innovate. The money-driven devs will continue to be so. Great games and shit games will continue to be released for all platforms, and absolutely no one loses and nothing is changed.
Yeah, my excitement in some games has suffered in a way (I used to be giddy for Halo releases until they started doing Mountain Dew promotions and shit to the point where it was insufferable) but we need this.
No, not for acceptance or to be "taken seriously as a medium," but to get rid of the pretentiousness, ivory towers, high horses and preconceptions that plague us so.
Games are art except for the ones that aren't. And my games are the highest art and your Farmville isn't even a game. Consoles are lesser and PCs are supreme, it's all your fault that the industry suffers. All you play is Madden and Call of Duty, I'm a better and smarter gamer because I play Half-Life and Final Fantasy...All that bullshit needs to disappear. The more people that enjoy all sorts of games without needing a reason, the better we'll be as a community, and that means far more to me than games as an "art form." It's not about becoming "cool" or "accepted" or having any sort of comeuppance at all.
I don't believe for half a second that games are suffering due to an expanded audience. The best developers will always be the best and the visionaries will keep trying to innovate. The money-driven devs will continue to be so. Great games and shit games will continue to be released for all platforms, and absolutely no one loses and nothing is changed.
I have a few thoughts on more mainstream appeal means more funding. I noticed there are some breathtaking games on consoles with enormous budgets. But, for me more funding doesn't always mean a better game.Nerdstar said:
I am a fan of JRPGs and nowadays the majority of them are now being released on portable systems. Great games they are, but the huge production values aren't expected on portables. I'm glad to see that sprites and pre-rendered backgrounds still exist on these. This wouldn't fly on consoles for the most part. It makes me nostalgic of the SNES and PS1 days.
I do enjoy the mainstream games. Hell, I've put over 430 hours into Black Ops. But, playing these DS and PSP rpgs puts me in a niche off mainstream gaming.
Do you wish money was still just for white people?
The more inclusive everyone is about everything they like the better. I've never prized any sort of feeling that I'm part of a niche. Different people like different things. I'm not going to judge people for having different tastes in gaming to me and even less am I going to be hostile towards people who are different to me trying out things I like, like they're treading on my territory or something.
The more inclusive everyone is about everything they like the better. I've never prized any sort of feeling that I'm part of a niche. Different people like different things. I'm not going to judge people for having different tastes in gaming to me and even less am I going to be hostile towards people who are different to me trying out things I like, like they're treading on my territory or something.
I like the medium's growing acceptance because it means that it is not going to die in the future. In order for the medium to survive, it is going to need a constant supply of new players and the only way that is going to happen is if the medium gains public acceptance.
That being said, I am waiting for the future date when the only nerds left are the ones that choose to memorize sports statistics, automotive details, or other accepted popular ideas. The same spots of the brain that allows you to remember some obscure piece of fiction, all the movies you've seen, and the entire expanded universe also allows you to remember sports trivia.
That being said, I am waiting for the future date when the only nerds left are the ones that choose to memorize sports statistics, automotive details, or other accepted popular ideas. The same spots of the brain that allows you to remember some obscure piece of fiction, all the movies you've seen, and the entire expanded universe also allows you to remember sports trivia.
OP makes the mistake of thinking these are the same girls. Hunter Thompson once got honored by his home town and grumbled about the people who used to give him grief were now honoring him... and he was older than almost everyone there. Henry Rollins used to get harassed by cops now he's more likely to get "HENRY!!!"
Times change and the younger generation change right along with it.
Times change and the younger generation change right along with it.
I love it when the first reply sums up everything that needs to be said. Thank you sir.Bobic said:
Smug satisfaction is always fun.
On the other hand, there's a big difference between allowing people to exclude themselves and actively excluding certain sorts of people. It may be less fun that you can't feel like part of a small, misunderstood group of people, but I'm glad we've started to break from the idea that only certain kinds of people are allowed to be "real" gamers.
On the other hand, there's a big difference between allowing people to exclude themselves and actively excluding certain sorts of people. It may be less fun that you can't feel like part of a small, misunderstood group of people, but I'm glad we've started to break from the idea that only certain kinds of people are allowed to be "real" gamers.
For me it isn't really the feeling of being in a niche just for the sake of being in a niche. My concern was what it has done to the design of games themselves. A lot of games are now streamlined and simplified to be more accepted to a broader audience. For example compare some of the earlier Bioware titles such as Baldurs Gate to Mass Effect 2 or Dragon Age 2. It seems these games have evolved from complex WRPG to action games with RPG elements. I enjoy these games still, but sometimes I miss the deeper complexity and custimization. Back when character creation was a hard intimidating process.NinjaDeathSlap said:
No, I don't, because when it was a "just for nerds" hobby, nerds used it as an excuse to become just as elitist and jerkoffish as the people who ostracized them.
Yeah, THIS!AyreonMaiden said:
and the argument that we're always hearing about how so called 'dumb' games are drowning out the rest of the industry fails to stand up to close inspection when you consider the embarrassing amounts of money WoW, for example, is making.
I have a friend who in most respects might as well be the personification of the 'Jock' stereotype. He's on pretty much all of the school sports teams, he doesn't get particularly good grades, he drinks hard, parties hard, and Fast and Furious 5 is his favorite movie of the year so far. But you know what his favorite game is? Not CoD, not FIFA, it's Fallout 3, and Y'know what, he's actually a really nice guy. So he is proof all the stereotyping we do is not just pretentious, It's not even based on any solid fact.
I like that the industry on a whole gets more money pumped into it then before, and I hope one day it is recognized as an art form.
Though, i couldn't really care if people thought i was geeky or whatever for playing video games.
Though, i couldn't really care if people thought i was geeky or whatever for playing video games.
