DoA Dev Says Jiggle Physics Are Part of Japanese Culture

[Moonlight Butterfly]

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Nope you just don't have a leg to stand on with your original argument so you are picking at semantics....

And frankly I don't give a crap what you think about me.

The quote that you defended had the guy saying 'All women dress up for men so objectification is okay.'

I guess that means you agree with that.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

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No the problem is you got called out on what you said originally quite convincingly so you are backpedaling and arguing semantics.

I'm sorry that we proved you wrong but it's no reason to get annoyed

Women don't dress up to attract men. They do it to feel more confident. Sorry but that is a fact.

It's the kind of reasoning that ends up with 'Yeah but she was dressed like a slut so she was asking for it.'

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

"U of M research finds ovulating women unconsciously buy sexier clothing to outdo attractive women"
http://www1.umn.edu/news/news-releases/2010/UR_CONTENT_237207.html

Yeah but it;s not a conscious choice. We don't sit there and decide 'Oh I will wear this because some random man will like it'. -.-

Saying things like 'Did you pull that fact out of your vagina' kind of proves that you are biased on this subject really.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

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That's not 'crying rape' that's a valid comparison and conclusion. Also for someone who has been in that situation. I find your dismissive attitude of the subject pretty offensive.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Yeah but it;s not a conscious choice. We don't sit there and decide 'Oh I will wear this because some random man will like it'. -.-

OK, just to make sure: you firmly believe that women NEVER dress attractively to be attractive?

Being attractive and dressing up deliberately for a man are two different things. Like I said my sister is happily married but she still likes to look her best.

 

[Hagi]

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Well considering he takes his own sources as gospel and as soon as I present data to the contrary he dismisses out of hand. I get the feeling there is a deeper reason for that...

I also hate this point of view that women who complain about this stuff are obviously 'just insecure' I;m not insecure I have enough jiggle physics of my own thanks, what I would like is to play a decent fight game that doesn't make it's female characters have 'sex object' as their main feature.

Like Moviebob has said before in a visual medium a characters comportment and dress is the most revealing thing about their character. A lot of the time you can't even tell at a glance what a female character is about other than 'sexy' while you can look at Nathan Drake and say 'Okay he's a cocky indiana jones type' or look at Marcus Fenix and see he is a determined badass.

As I said, it's vital that there are alternatives that don't feature jiggle physics and video games do indeed seem severely lacking in that department.

And it's more than fair to heavily criticize games that don't feature well-rounded female characters. I just don't think that "giving people a bad self-image" is a valid criticism. Shallow, lazy and pandering character design on the other hand... You can criticize the fuck out of that and I'll happily join you.

Although I suppose games like this do feature very well-rounded female characters in a certain sense... Maybe they should be criticized for not having less well-rounded female characters?

 

[Hagi]

Yeah but it;s not a conscious choice. We don't sit there and decide 'Oh I will wear this because some random man will like it'. -.-

OK, just to make sure: you firmly believe that women NEVER dress attractively to be attractive?

I think you, and others, are totally misunderstanding her.

Women (and men for that matter) dress attractively to make themselves feel good. This feeling good comes from others, including men, admiring and appreciating their looks.

Men are a means, not a goal, in this.

They do not dress attractively so that anyone else may feel good about looking at them. How others feel whilst appreciating them is irrelevant, as long as they're being appreciated.

Just examine the feeling you get yourself when you're dressed up in a fancy suit or any other clothing you think you look good in and someone else notices that.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

Well considering he takes his own sources as gospel and as soon as I present data to the contrary he dismisses out of hand. I get the feeling there is a deeper reason for that...

I also hate this point of view that women who complain about this stuff are obviously 'just insecure' I;m not insecure I have enough jiggle physics of my own thanks, what I would like is to play a decent fight game that doesn't make it's female characters have 'sex object' as their main feature.

Like Moviebob has said before in a visual medium a characters comportment and dress is the most revealing thing about their character. A lot of the time you can't even tell at a glance what a female character is about other than 'sexy' while you can look at Nathan Drake and say 'Okay he's a cocky indiana jones type' or look at Marcus Fenix and see he is a determined badass.

As I said, it's vital that there are alternatives that don't feature jiggle physics and video games do indeed seem severely lacking in that department.

And it's more than fair to heavily criticize games that don't feature well-rounded female characters. I just don't think that "giving people a bad self-image" is a valid criticism. Shallow, lazy and pandering character design on the other hand... You can criticize the fuck out of that and I'll happily join you.

Although I suppose games like this do feature very well-rounded female characters in a certain sense... Maybe they should be criticized for not having less well-rounded female characters?

Sometimes it's not just personality though because lets face it there isn't that much personality and backstory in fighting games anyway. It's how the character is 'portrayed'

If a female character is posing constantly and flashes her knickers when she kicks and doing everything to be titillating for a guy I would label that objectification.

It's almost how someone puts themselves across physcially.

A good way to describe it would be how Superman can hide as Clark Kent. He doesn't just change his glasses he changes his entire comportment and appearance into that of a clumsy nerd. It's actually a very effective commentary on characterisation in a visual medium.

 

[Xangba]

BTW Women don't dress up for men we do it to make ourselves look nice. That is the though process of someone who says things like 'she was asking for it'

Sorry, but the way that's worded is a ridiculous statement. I have three sisters, all but one cousin is female, and a girlfriend. Every single one of them has said differently. To be more precise, that women dress up for people in general. That's why many times outfits show off cleavage, ass, and legs. I can personally attest that men do things like that too. I think there's miscommunication here. It seems you interpreted it as "women dress to please men" as opposed to what I believe was the intention, "women dress to show off to men." Everyone does it. Yeah people like looking in the mirror and thinking "I look good today!" but people don't do it (most of the time) to just think that about themselves, they do it so that when they walk down the street everyone else thinks that too. That is dressing up for people. Most people like the idea that other people find them attractive.

And I know "show off" may not be the best wording but it's all I've got right now after running on two hours of sleep. Or maybe it is and I think it seems somewhat off due to the previously mentioned lack of sleep.

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

Yeah but it;s not a conscious choice. We don't sit there and decide 'Oh I will wear this because some random man will like it'. -.-

OK, just to make sure: you firmly believe that women NEVER dress attractively to be attractive?

I think you, and others, are totally misunderstanding her.

Women (and men for that matter) dress attractively to make themselves feel good. This feeling good comes from others, including men, admiring and appreciating their looks.

Men are a means, not a goal, in this.

They do not dress attractively so that anyone else may feel good about looking at them. How others feel whilst appreciating them is irrelevant, as long as they're being appreciated.

Just examine the feeling you get yourself when you're dressed up in a fancy suit or any other clothing you think you look good in and someone else notices that.

It also makes them feel very good to think that men play no part in their wish to be attractive. This is false, but the wish to maintain the positive feelings they get from the deception is too strong to see through it.