DoA Dev Says Jiggle Physics Are Part of Japanese Culture

[Paradoxrifts]

You never provided an actual specific link to the material you were drawing your information from, but not to worry as I went out of my way to track it down.[footnote]www.ace.lu.se/images/Syd_och_sydostasienstudier/working_papers/shibata_final.pdf[/footnote] But lets get down to business.

I provided a link between sexually objectifying material and sexual assault in my original link. A researcher found that 49% of those men who admitted their crime to officers said they had watch sexually objectifying material beforehand and it contributed to their offense.

This is hardly news.

Criminals often not only externalize the blame for their crimes, but will often on advice from their defense team say anything that they would need to say in the pursuit of judicial leeway. Given the reputation of the Japanese Criminal Justice System and their high rates of criminal conviction when cases are brought to trial, then there is a very real likelihood that blaming the pornography is little more than a commonly laundered sob story.

"It wasn't me Officer-San! The porn held me down and made me!" Yeah, right.

No mention is given, whether in detail or in passing, of the individual circumstances of the 553 individuals involved in the sample as it is presented. We don't even learn the trends in their pornography consumption.

In short, it is impossible to objectively determine whether or not the pornography they consumed was actually responsible for their actions.

While that doesn't show that it's the main factor it does show that it's a factor. The same researcher quotes a study that was on Japanese university age men showing them different types of porn. Those that were shown the aggressive 'faked' non consensual sex showed tendencies towards saying rape is okay and 'the woman likes it anyway' when questioned straight afterwards.

Yeah, what she really said was this.

K. Ohbuchi, T. Ikeda and G Takeuchi exposed 72 "normal" male students
at Tohoku University in Japan to either a "positive" rape film in which a
female victim expressed pleasure, a negative rape film in which she expressed
pain, or a consenting sex film (all of these three expose the sexual parts of the
female body as "enticing flesh"). Both rape proclivity and belief in rape
myths were generated among these normal males students after the exposure,
and most significantly among those who viewed a "positive" rape film.

The synopsis of the study I will post below..

Researchers found that the men whose movie showed women enjoying rape were more likely to believe that women like to be raped or that they make up rape cases than the men whose movie showed women reacting negatively. However, these effects also depend on men's views concerning rape in general.[footnote]http://cmch.tv/mentors/fullRecord.asp?id=2374[/footnote]

So they took a group of 75 men. Then exposed them to a fictionalized depiction of a woman being physically coerced, and here I am assuming the depiction was of physical coercion, into sex against her will. An encounter that she is depicted as ultimately *Ew* enjoying *Ew*, and then gave these same men a survey to complete afterwards as to try and gauge and measure their experiences. And the best they could come up with is that men exposed to such material are more likely to believe that women enjoy sexual coercion or will falsely accuse a man of rape, but that these effects depend on the views on rape they held prior to exposure.

Truly, a great leap forward for science!

And if you don't understand how controlled studies conducted in this manner when combined with a heightened politicized atmosphere concerning the nature of the research being conducted can lead to inherent bias and bad science, then well, I'm not going to waste time trying to teach you to be honest.

But hey, so far, so good, so what the fuck has this got to do with objectification of women in video games?

You are the one who has attempted to establish a link between fictional portrayals of rape in Japanese pornography and a game franchise most renown for its fictional portrayals of female beach volley ball.

Do you at least recognise that there is measurable difference between media that trivializes sexual assault as presented the evidence that you yourself brought forward, and the DOA franchise?

Or are you another idiot who thinks all roads rape lead to Rome rape?

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

Um I didn't bring up porn you did... and then you asked me for proof which I gave you. Don't act like I was the one who started this line of discussion

And discrediting this researcher just because she is a woman doesn't serve you well tbh. I don't see you with any relevant qualifications. If someone comes up with evidence of a connection than you can't just throw your dummy out of the pram and say BUTS THAT'S BAD SCIENCE!

I'm sorry but that's really not the right way to go about it.

Also, objectification is just that whether in porn or video games or even a lipstick commercial. Like I said earlier it can result in poor body image for young women and can lead to illness.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

>Implies breasts larger than your head look attractive.

lolwut

We can't help if other cultures in other countries around the globe think that it's a bad representation. Within our nationality and within our national borders, we obviously have morals that we create our female characters from, but within our Japanese sensibilities, we've made those characters the way they are and we're not going to stop doing that."

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/5531-Twisted-Metal

"Oh, well, that's all right then, as long as you're preserving horrible ideas in the name of tradition. What's good enough for the Catholic church is good enough for you."

Spot on, Yhatzee! Couldn't have said it better myself.

I'd go further and remind people, including the dev, how recently there was an issue with age of consent and child porn in Japan.

I would agree, the child porn thing is...disturbing to say the least, but as an unusual part, pedophilia is far lower in japan than other first world countries. Makes me wonder if they have got something right there, but still, makes me nervous to think that.

It's not lower. The rate of rape against women is "lower" in Japan, too. Know why? Women in Japan are much, much more inclined to simply put up with it and to not report crime. Compare a "Western" woman to that of an Asian and the differences are clear. The image of a submissive, quite, obedient Asian wife isn't a stereotype for no reason. Japan is one of the only developed nations in the world (the whole fucking world) that needs same-sex train carts to combat the rampart sexual assault and rape on their public transport system.

There's also the issue of what the Japanese consider child porn, with their age of consent laws being as about as effective and stable as wet spaghetti. Their "lolicon' fetish scene is abhorrent. It crosses the line between cute girls and harmless drawings and has become a very seedy, very pedophile drenched subculture.

Women in Japan are expected to put up with it and a lot of them do.

I'm not taking the piss when I asking this question: what do you intend to do about it?

Not you personally, but, haven't most attempts at changing foreign culture from the outside failed without liberal use of war? The question should not be 'What are we as Westerners doing to change Japan's attitudes?', it should be 'What is Japan doing to change Japan's attitudes?'.

As much as the country is in need of some kind of small scale Renaissance, as an external force you have as much chance of convincing them to change as they do of making the United States abandon Christianity for Buddhism.

 

[Stripes]

The semantics I got from this was "fuck off foreigner, we will do things our wat whether you like it or not so stop trying to tell us how to make our games fit to your culture". I dont agree with it but the whole "japanese sensibilities" basically meant dont tell us what to do, this is our culture not yours.

 

[The_Blue_Rider]

Jiggle Physics are part of Japanese Culture now? Good Christ no wonder Weeaboos exist

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

How very self important of you. What women do doesn't revolve around what a man thinks or does. Otherwise my happily married sister would wear a binbag when she went out wouldn't she...

 

[Calibanbutcher]

snip

How very self important of you. What women do doesn't revolve around what a man thinks or does. Otherwise my happily married sister would wear a binbag when she went out wouldn't she...

Woman dresses nice? Must want sex. Has nothing to do with feeling good or pretty or anything.

/sarcasm

Well, who decides "what looks nice", aka, what is fashionable at the moment?

 

[Hagi]

And discrediting this researcher just because she is a woman doesn't serve you well tbh.

I'm a tad confused, the only mention in his post of the researcher's gender is a single "she" when talking about her.

The main discredit seems to be the limited sample-size as well as the lack of a direct causal link in the conclusion due to the addition of the effect of prior opinions.

Also, objectification is just that whether in porn or video games or even a lipstick commercial. Like I said earlier it can result in poor body image for young women and can lead to illness.

Is this really the fault of those media though? Provided there are alternatives available of course and such material isn't the only type out there.

I mean if I were to read romantic fiction at the exclusion of everything else my self-confidence would be drastically reduced within months due to the unrealistic nature of most men, they're all extremely handsome, muscled billionaires. That's not something I'll ever be able to compete with and by reading about them again and again I'll just start feeling very, very bad about myself.

So that's a genre I generally avoid, because my self-confidence can't take it. I see that as a fault within myself, not a fault of that genre.

Provided there are enough alternatives in gaming I think the same should go there, although I'll easily admit that there may very well be a lack of that which would indeed be a serious problem. But in and of itself I don't see media which may lead to poor self images as being at fault itself, rather the viewer's lack of self-confidence is at fault (again, on the provision that there are alternatives available).

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

How very self important of you. What women do doesn't revolve around what a man thinks or does. Otherwise my happily married sister would wear a binbag when she went out wouldn't she...

How can women dressing up for men be self-important of me? Ignoring the fact that I stated it as ONE of the reasons why women dress up, I said they can dress up for men. Not me. I am not men.

There are only 4 women that would dress up for me if I asked them. But that's why I know that women do dress up for a man sometimes and the research shows clearly enough that they dress up for men in general some of the time too.

Are you going to scream 'rape' now?

1. Why would we scream rape? Where would you even get that from?
2. I don't think I have ever dressed up 'for a guy' but I have dressed up to feel confident.

It's this weird idea that women do everything to please men that is hilarious. They aren't the center of the universe and on top of that the idea because we might look nice that means we should be okay with being reduced to a sex object because at the end of the that's what we dressed up for right? Nothing to do with our own choices just for men to ogle us.

*rolls eyes*

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

Well considering he takes his own sources as gospel and as soon as I present data to the contrary he dismisses out of hand. I get the feeling there is a deeper reason for that...

I also hate this point of view that women who complain about this stuff are obviously 'just insecure' I;m not insecure I have enough jiggle physics of my own thanks, what I would like is to play a decent fight game that doesn't make it's female characters have 'sex object' as their main feature.

Like Moviebob has said before in a visual medium a characters comportment and dress is the most revealing thing about their character. A lot of the time you can't even tell at a glance what a female character is about other than 'sexy' while you can look at Nathan Drake and say 'Okay he's a cocky indiana jones type' or look at Marcus Fenix and see he is a determined badass.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

Because they are not the reason why women do things all of the time...:|

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

Considering the original quote he was defending was in response to some guys saying 'Women only dress up to attract men so objectification is okay'

It's strange I'm the one getting ragged on and not the original guy.