Yankeedoodles said:
Verlander said:
Yankeedoodles said:
Well I don't know about the two of you but I've thoroughly enjoyed this 'fiasco'. With the witty barbs and all it was a bit like reading a script for 'House'. BDKJ seems to be making the very simple point that racism and xenophobia are just as prevalent in British politics as they are in American politics and has offered certain facts which seem to back up the fact that nationalist parties have gained support among at least a minority of Britons. I don't really see how that can be argued given the evidence presented. Now what I find most interesting is the fact that a previous thread had led me to believe (correct me if I'm wrong BDKJ) that BDKJ was a British expat living in the States. Knowing that, Abandon, would you still have argued so vehemently (or argued at all) against the mere assertion that American and British politics have a similar level of racism and xenophobia? Did the flag in his profile make all the difference?
If nothing else this thread has completely disabused me of the notion that Britons are any less nationalistic than American and for that I'm glad I read it. Personally I think there will come a day when we as a global interconnected society decide that nationalism as a concept should be viewed in much the same way as elitism.
Dunno about those guys, but I lived in America and the UK (and Australia as well) and I'd easily say that on a ground, personal level, the Brits are by far the least nationalistic... that is, until foreigners try and move in on their territory (ironic much?)
Most Brits don't own a flag, nor would dream of ever waving one outside of a football match, and close to none know the national anthem. Considering in America that's basic knowledge, and they even brainwa... I mean,
require children to salute a flag every morning in school, while reeling off some diatribe about how good it is to live in a slightly different location to everyone else, the Brits aren't nationalist at all. They prove you can be a small minded bigot, racist and xenophobe, while still being self depreciating about your own country. Quite a feat.
I'm not nationalist, and I think that the concept is ridiculous. However, you can't accuse the vast majority of Brits of being nationalist when we aren't,
especially compared to America. You guys even made up your own sports, because you didn't want to play with the rest of the world
Well I and I would wager to bet most Americans have no idea what the middle of the Star Spangled Banner is. We just sort of mumble it when it's played at sporting events. But looking at the sum total of this thread, can you honestly say that this does not reek of British nationalism?
Speaking to American nationalism specifically, I can understand why it may be annoying to a number of people in other countries. It annoys me on occasion. But, sadly, there are a number of social issues still very present in this country which nationalism is quite effective at overcoming. Hopefully we'll push past those some day but until then I'm afraid the international community will simply have to try to tolerate it.
No, I wouldn't say this thread reeks of British nationalism. I think it reeks of slight xenophobia, but more than that, it reeks of boyish competition.
The thing is, (and this is what America is going to need to put up with), the US has entered the homes of every western country, in its media, its products and its way of life. It's like America has infiltrated us all. It's like we all know you personally, and don't realise that you are a very different nation, and are as foreign as any other country can be, especially in your personal attitudes. And all of this feeling of familiarity goes double for us English speaking countries - we don't even get a dubbed version of your stuff, it's not necessary. You speak to us on a daily basis in your own voices, in our very homes, in our cinema, in what we eat or drink, and in how we now live our lives. And so that makes us brothers. Unfortunately, you're the brother who got all the breaks in life. WE are the runty one who can never get the girl. So every time we get a success, yeah we rub it in your faces. Like this thread. I think we're entitled to. We are mass consumers of what you export, so it's nice to be appreciated too. Add to that general British competitiveness, and the fact that most Brits are kinda rude as a way of life, and you get threads like this. It isn't a nationalist thing, it's more of a society kinda thing. We aren't like this because we love Britain, we're like this because, frankly, Britain doesn't have much worth loving any more, and so we take full advantage of our successes. We'll still be drinking Coca Cola tomorrow, and watching awful remakes of good foreign language films, but allow us Dr Who today
EDIT: Ask any Brit in person the
second line of the anthem, and look at their confused faces... it's not sung in schools, nor taught. Most schools won't own a British flag at all. What's the point? It's a difficult comparison, being very different countries, but you can't compare English nationalism, as it doesn't exist. The BNP and EDL and that a just fronts for racist parties. They don't give a shit about "nationalism" or patriotism.
