Doctor Who Series 6.13: "The Wedding of River Song' [SPOILERS] + Series wrap up

[OriginalLadders]

Yes, well I just remembered while I was on the toilet that the doctor would have been controlling the teselector to do all his clever jazz. Amazing, the clarity of thought you have on the john.

I wonder if that's how Stephen Hawking is so smart, of course that would mean that colostomy bag + wheelchair = toilet.

...

Was that a completely tasteless joke, or is it just me?

 

[Kurai Angelo]

What an awful end to a truely awful series of Dr Who. Only the james cordon episode was really good, spoiled by Amy Pond's cameo. This series has been full of continuity errors, more retcons than you can count and the truely tiresom plot of Amy pond and river song. River song has been the most over used and underwhelming character to hit dr who. Poorly devised retcons to turn her into a central character, which just wouldnt end.

What retcons?

well making her amy and roreys daughter for one.
Making river that black girl who died for another.
making river song part timelord.

these are all retcons.

Those aren't retcons... they're plot developments.

No those are retcons. Discovering something never previously known about someone after the fact is called a retcon. Changing something about someone i.e introducing the black girl at the end, into amy and roreys past is retro active continuity. She was added after the fact, a retcon. I dont know how to explain that any better

Uhh...

Definition for retcon:
Retroactive continuity (often shortened to retcon) refers to the deliberate alteration of previously established facts in a work of serial fiction.

When was it an established fact that she WASN'T their daughter?
When was it an established fact Mels (that black girl as you put it) DIDN'T exist in their lives?
When was it an established fact that River WASN'T half TimeLord?

I'm sorry but your argument is retarded. What you are describing are developments of characters that have been revealed as and when the story required them to be known. Where would the suspense have been if River's entire fucking back story had been outlined in her first epsiode? She would have been completely pointless as a story telling device. Obviously your brain has trouble with plot twists, perhaps you should stick to watching something else.

 

[Seventh Actuality]

They need to stop making an overall theme so obvious. In the tennant days, the seemingly random episodes had a loose link in some way to the final episode, it was subtle and you thought oh that was clever how they all linked. Now its all about the build up to the finale, it is literally thrown in your face from minute 1 of episode 1.

Most of your complaints are just down to taste, which is fair enough, but...seriously? Subtle? Clever? Wat. The references to Torchwood and Mr. Saxon in the 2nd and 3rd seasons were incredibly blatant and shoehorned in, while having little to no effect on the stories they were part of (the 4th season's arc was actually surprisingly subtle, so I'll give it that, even if the actual finale it was building towards was mind-blisteringly shit).

The story arcs in the last two series aren't subtle, but unlike the ones in Tennant's day they aren't trying (and failing) to be. They're a part of the actual plot of each individual episode, intended to make the overall story arc tighter rather than something that comes right the fuck out of nowhere in the penultimate episode of the series.

Well i was thinking mainly of the 4th series when i wrote that.

I have to disagree, with you however. Every episode was not centered around the finale episode. Yes references were made, but you were allowed to enjoy each episode on it's own merit.If you happend to not enjoy the end, then fine at least the journey was varied and interesting.

This series is all about the end, and so invests 13 episodes on one overall(and in my opinion, dull) theme. The finale had no wow factor or major suprise, we knew from minute 1 the dr wasnt going to die, so to string that out and make every episode center around a pretty average escape from death, makes the entire series far less enjoyable.

I much prefer to be suprised at the end and them to bring a theme out of left field , than slowly trickle your way toward a predictable ending.

And obviously a lot of my complaints are about taste, there cannot be a large amount of fact when reviewing a piece of media can there.

This makes a little more sense, actually. If you're not sold on the overall story arc, then I can understand its intrusion into other episodes just spoiling them for you (although I still have to say that Tennant-era finales may have been unconnected to other episodes, they were never surprising).

 

[Riesel87]

What an awful end to a truely awful series of Dr Who. Only the james cordon episode was really good, spoiled by Amy Pond's cameo. This series has been full of continuity errors, more retcons than you can count and the truely tiresom plot of Amy pond and river song. River song has been the most over used and underwhelming character to hit dr who. Poorly devised retcons to turn her into a central character, which just wouldnt end.

What retcons?

well making her amy and roreys daughter for one.
Making river that black girl who died for another.
making river song part timelord.

these are all retcons.

Those aren't retcons... they're plot developments.

No those are retcons. Discovering something never previously known about someone after the fact is called a retcon. Changing something about someone i.e introducing the black girl at the end, into amy and roreys past is retro active continuity. She was added after the fact, a retcon. I dont know how to explain that any better

So...having an explicitly mysterious character reveal their backstory is a retcon? What?

That's...insane.

Of everything you mentioned, only Mels' appearance might be a retcon, since the jury is out on whether Moffat intended her sudden appearance to be an in-universe change of history or a legit retcon.

Ok well they may not directly contradict anything, and if they are not techinally retcons, then are very poor plot additions to accomodate a convaluted character. The mel introduction was laughable. Oh did we not mention our mutual best friend that has been there the entire time, taken a massive interest in the dr, and yet somehow managed to avoid being brought up ever, even in passing conversation. like amy saying, oh mel would love this etc. If that is not a retcon then, its close enough and very poor writing.

 

[TheRightToArmBears]

Snip.

Princess Bride references always make my day. Thanks!

Rory is so badass, he's even badass in alternate timelines. I thought this episode was pretty damned awesome, especially the Indiana Jones reference (in the tomb, 'I hate rats'). I think it was just about the best possible tying up of the series, although it irks me a little that Amy and Rory don't ever get to actually keep their baby at all, instead having River being around grown-up and acting more like an aunt than a daughter.

 

[Seventh Actuality]

What an awful end to a truely awful series of Dr Who. Only the james cordon episode was really good, spoiled by Amy Pond's cameo. This series has been full of continuity errors, more retcons than you can count and the truely tiresom plot of Amy pond and river song. River song has been the most over used and underwhelming character to hit dr who. Poorly devised retcons to turn her into a central character, which just wouldnt end.

What retcons?

well making her amy and roreys daughter for one.
Making river that black girl who died for another.
making river song part timelord.

these are all retcons.

Those aren't retcons... they're plot developments.

No those are retcons. Discovering something never previously known about someone after the fact is called a retcon. Changing something about someone i.e introducing the black girl at the end, into amy and roreys past is retro active continuity. She was added after the fact, a retcon. I dont know how to explain that any better

So...having an explicitly mysterious character reveal their backstory is a retcon? What?

That's...insane.

Of everything you mentioned, only Mels' appearance might be a retcon, since the jury is out on whether Moffat intended her sudden appearance to be an in-universe change of history or a legit retcon.

Ok well they may not directly contradict anything, and if they are not techinally retcons, then are very poor plot additions to accomodate a convaluted character. The mel introduction was laughable. Oh did we not mention our mutual best friend that has been there the entire time, taken a massive interest in the dr, and yet somehow managed to avoid being brought up ever, even in passing conversation. like amy saying, oh mel would love this etc. If that is not a retcon then, its close enough and very poor writing.

That depends on whether it was in-universe or a real life retcon. What some people took her introduction to mean was that River Song had gone back in time and joined her parents as children, changing history so that she grew up with them - so the montage was a timeline of the changes her appearance had made. If this is true, then they didn't have a mutual best friend in previous episodes, but as of halfway through season 6 their past was altered so that they did (ow, my head). Remember, we know River was running around in the past as a child.

That said, it wasn't made explicit that this was what happened, so it could very well be the ass-pull you believe it is. I'm undecided - I'd prefer my theory to be true, but I don't have quite that level of faith in Steven Moffat.

 

[tehbeard]

I hope he's called Steve or something. That would be the best thing ever!

Alonso would be better

 

[Rednog]

To be honest I found this kind of dull and I sighed heavily when there was the whole oh look River is still going to continue in the series....most likely with Rory (tolerable) and Amy (diaf) in tow.
I miss the random episodes, these "plot" heavy ones really aren't that interesting to me because they are rarely filled with any meaningful consequences. Oh look a story line where the doctor is going to die...yea the exact same second you said that my response was yea I know he isn't going to die. You can't build drama and suspense when the audience already knows that the threat you put out there isn't going to happen. Sure the audience might wet their beaks in the curiosity of how he gets out of it, but it isn't the nail biter the writers think they are presenting.
Hell just a few changes here and there could have at least added some sense of dread as to maybe this will actually have some consequences. Hell maybe have the green sonic blow up and be replaced with the one River was wielding in the library...etc.

 

[Riesel87]

What an awful end to a truely awful series of Dr Who. Only the james cordon episode was really good, spoiled by Amy Pond's cameo. This series has been full of continuity errors, more retcons than you can count and the truely tiresom plot of Amy pond and river song. River song has been the most over used and underwhelming character to hit dr who. Poorly devised retcons to turn her into a central character, which just wouldnt end.

What retcons?

well making her amy and roreys daughter for one.
Making river that black girl who died for another.
making river song part timelord.

these are all retcons.

Those aren't retcons... they're plot developments.

No those are retcons. Discovering something never previously known about someone after the fact is called a retcon. Changing something about someone i.e introducing the black girl at the end, into amy and roreys past is retro active continuity. She was added after the fact, a retcon. I dont know how to explain that any better

So...having an explicitly mysterious character reveal their backstory is a retcon? What?

That's...insane.

Of everything you mentioned, only Mels' appearance might be a retcon, since the jury is out on whether Moffat intended her sudden appearance to be an in-universe change of history or a legit retcon.

Ok well they may not directly contradict anything, and if they are not techinally retcons, then are very poor plot additions to accomodate a convaluted character. The mel introduction was laughable. Oh did we not mention our mutual best friend that has been there the entire time, taken a massive interest in the dr, and yet somehow managed to avoid being brought up ever, even in passing conversation. like amy saying, oh mel would love this etc. If that is not a retcon then, its close enough and very poor writing.

That depends on whether it was in-universe or a real life retcon. What some people took her introduction to mean was that River Song had gone back in time and joined her parents as children, changing history so that she grew up with them - so the montage was a timeline of the changes her appearance had made. If this is true, then they didn't have a mutual best friend in previous episodes, but as of halfway through season 6 their past was altered so that they did (ow, my head). Remember, we know River was running around in the past as a child.

That said, it wasn't made explicit that this was what happened, so it could very well be the ass-pull you believe it is. I'm undecided - I'd prefer my theory to be true, but I don't have quite that level of faith in Steven Moffat.

Well i have to agree with you on that and my faith in him is the same as you. I just find it very hard to believe that any of river song was planned. Thinking back to the library when she died, I just cannot beleive he knew her story for 2 seasons ahead and linked to characters that hadnt been written yet.

 

[The Funslinger]

Yes, well I just remembered while I was on the toilet that the doctor would have been controlling the teselector to do all his clever jazz. Amazing, the clarity of thought you have on the john.

I wonder if that's how Stephen Hawking is so smart, of course that would mean that colostomy bag + wheelchair = toilet.

...

Was that a completely tasteless joke, or is it just me?

It's okay, I'm a fan of dark humor.

So what you're saying is that while I'm in these relaxed situations when nothing is expected of me (others like it are when I'm mildly drunk, trying to sleep, or loitering specifically when I'm not supposed to) I become the most intelligent man in the world?

That's either the greatest, or worst superpower ever.

I want the ability to selectively wipe my own mind. I'd be able to reread books I love with the same initial thrill.

 

[The Funslinger]

To be honest I found this kind of dull and I signed heavily when there was the whole oh look River is still going to continue in the series....most likely with Rory (tolerable) and Amy (diaf) in tow.

As he's my favorite companion of the reboot, I'd like to welcome you to what I like to call "We're Fine With Rory, Associated." Be warned, the WFWRA is deeply imbedded in ancient tradition, and mayhem (gleeful, or otherwise) will not be tolerated.

 

[Riesel87]

What an awful end to a truely awful series of Dr Who. Only the james cordon episode was really good, spoiled by Amy Pond's cameo. This series has been full of continuity errors, more retcons than you can count and the truely tiresom plot of Amy pond and river song. River song has been the most over used and underwhelming character to hit dr who. Poorly devised retcons to turn her into a central character, which just wouldnt end.

What retcons?

well making her amy and roreys daughter for one.
Making river that black girl who died for another.
making river song part timelord.

these are all retcons.

Those aren't retcons... they're plot developments.

No those are retcons. Discovering something never previously known about someone after the fact is called a retcon. Changing something about someone i.e introducing the black girl at the end, into amy and roreys past is retro active continuity. She was added after the fact, a retcon. I dont know how to explain that any better

Uhh...

Definition for retcon:
Retroactive continuity (often shortened to retcon) refers to the deliberate alteration of previously established facts in a work of serial fiction.

When was it an established fact that she WASN'T their daughter?
When was it an established fact Mels (that black girl as you put it) DIDN'T exist in their lives?
When was it an established fact that River WASN'T half TimeLord?

I'm sorry but your argument is retarded. What you are describing are developments of characters that have been revealed as and when the story required them to be known. Where would the suspense have been if River's entire fucking back story had been outlined in her first epsiode? She would have been completely pointless as a story telling device. Obviously your brain has trouble with plot twists, perhaps you should stick to watching something else.

Right first off, calm down and stop swearing. I havent been offensive to you so don't be offensive to me. If you being insulting to put your put across is your only way, then it shows your level of intellect for what it is.

I have admitted to someone else that these may not be technically retcons, but they are as close as without changing any so called established facts.

To believe that moffat had designs to make all these plot points with River song in mind, when she lay dying in the library seems rather unlikely. I cannot imagine he was writing plot points to go for characters 2 seasons ahead that hadnt even been written. The fact is river song as a character has been in dr who 3 seasons. Therefore somethings, like the sudden addition of mel as a plot point, is just moffat adding things as and when to make things fit with his new story. That reflects in the quality of programme, as dr who is ment to be thought provoking, but when you can see things like that being done it doesnt make for good watching.

It has made river a confused character, with sudden aditions to fit the new story. These are hardly thought provoking twists, adding random bits of information to a character that has dragged and ultimately fulfilled every expected outcome.

 

[Seventh Actuality]

Other things I thought were awesome about this episode:

1) The Silence (if that's what they're actually called) make much cooler monsters when the whole episode doesn't revolve around them and their powers.

2) Ohhhhjesusmylife Amy Pond looks good in that suit. Seriously, the feminist in me doesn't like making comments like this, but dayum. Although I have to note that I find Amy a lot more attractive now that she's an actual likeable, consistent character rather than the sociopathic nymphomaniac womanchild she was in series 5.

3) The Brigadier's sendoff. Making the offscreen death play such a big role in the plot (forcing the Doctor into confronting his own death) made all the difference. I've always loved the Brigadier, and while it's a shame he never got to come back in the new series, for such a short mention this really felt like giving him the respect he deserved.

 

[Riesel87]

They need to stop making an overall theme so obvious. In the tennant days, the seemingly random episodes had a loose link in some way to the final episode, it was subtle and you thought oh that was clever how they all linked. Now its all about the build up to the finale, it is literally thrown in your face from minute 1 of episode 1.

Most of your complaints are just down to taste, which is fair enough, but...seriously? Subtle? Clever? Wat. The references to Torchwood and Mr. Saxon in the 2nd and 3rd seasons were incredibly blatant and shoehorned in, while having little to no effect on the stories they were part of (the 4th season's arc was actually surprisingly subtle, so I'll give it that, even if the actual finale it was building towards was mind-blisteringly shit).

The story arcs in the last two series aren't subtle, but unlike the ones in Tennant's day they aren't trying (and failing) to be. They're a part of the actual plot of each individual episode, intended to make the overall story arc tighter rather than something that comes right the fuck out of nowhere in the penultimate episode of the series.

Well i was thinking mainly of the 4th series when i wrote that.

I have to disagree, with you however. Every episode was not centered around the finale episode. Yes references were made, but you were allowed to enjoy each episode on it's own merit.If you happend to not enjoy the end, then fine at least the journey was varied and interesting.

This series is all about the end, and so invests 13 episodes on one overall(and in my opinion, dull) theme. The finale had no wow factor or major suprise, we knew from minute 1 the dr wasnt going to die, so to string that out and make every episode center around a pretty average escape from death, makes the entire series far less enjoyable.

I much prefer to be suprised at the end and them to bring a theme out of left field , than slowly trickle your way toward a predictable ending.

And obviously a lot of my complaints are about taste, there cannot be a large amount of fact when reviewing a piece of media can there.

This makes a little more sense, actually. If you're not sold on the overall story arc, then I can understand its intrusion into other episodes just spoiling them for you (although I still have to say that Tennant-era finales may have been unconnected to other episodes, they were never surprising).

yeh that has been my major gripe (other than not liking amy) is that the entire series has been based on this idea of the Dr dieing. Knowing full well he won't, it made the constant build up to the finale, ruin some good moments of the series.

 

[tomtom94]

As someone who found the methods of Davies (arc words hastily tied together in half an episode almost always unsatisfactorily) to be extremely irritating, I greatly prefer the style of the new series with the episodes working to a fixed overall plot with a definitive direction.

It also means that people wishing for a return to the old serials will be a bit happier.

Whether Mels' introduction and the Tesselector were a bit of an ass pull will be a subject for debate, I must say I can't shake the feeling but I suppose with the latter it was always an option.

 

[Riesel87]

To be honest I found this kind of dull and I sighed heavily when there was the whole oh look River is still going to continue in the series....most likely with Rory (tolerable) and Amy (diaf) in tow.
I miss the random episodes, these "plot" heavy ones really aren't that interesting to me because they are rarely filled with any meaningful consequences. Oh look a story line where the doctor is going to die...yea the exact same second you said that my response was yea I know he isn't going to die. You can't build drama and suspense when the audience already knows that the threat you put out there isn't going to happen. Sure the audience might wet their beaks in the curiosity of how he gets out of it, but it isn't the nail biter the writers think they are presenting.
Hell just a few changes here and there could have at least added some sense of dread as to maybe this will actually have some consequences. Hell maybe have the green sonic blow up and be replaced with the one River was wielding in the library...etc.

haha yes my friend you are just spot on here.

 

[Doclector]

Pretty good episode, actually.

I was very concerned that the doctor was once again going to return through impossible BS like the time Amy pond rhymed him back into existence, so much so that when river started to hint at him still being alive, I said to myself "Impossible BS time!", but actually, that made an unusual amount of sense.

Question is...why would people knowing the doctor's name be so destructive to the universe...unless the doctor's name is...GOD!

 

[Airsoftslayer93]

I dunno, i think this half of the series was just as strong as the first, It's a lovely way to really reboot the series, shame it took two seasons to get there.

 

[Woodsey]

Pretty good episode, actually.

I was very concerned that the doctor was once again going to return through impossible BS like the time Amy pond rhymed him back into existence, so much so that when river started to hint at him still being alive, I said to myself "Impossible BS time!", but actually, that made an unusual amount of sense.

I dunno, there seemed to be some flawed logic in getting around him and River needing to touch - in that she was touching (what was effectively) a robot.

And they need to have a clean cut somewhere. I honestly thought this whole "Silence" plot line had been wrapped up three times already, and now they're continuing with this "first question" business (which was mentioned at the start of the episode, forgotten about, then thrown out again at the end). Its all getting very messy.

Seeing his hair without having 3 cans of hair spray applied to it has made me consider growing mine out a little though, so there's that.

(haters gonna hate)

Eugh.

 

[Puddleknock]

Loved the series final so much. But then I get giddy at all things Doctor Who so not sure how critical I can be.

Rory continues to show that he is the most endearing character in recent series, a great mix of badass and normality that you don't often see in anything. I do wonder what they will do with the whole fact that Amy has death on her hands, she mentions this so I would assume it will feature in the next series, I hope they handle it properly.


Oh and hot air balloon cars...someone make this happen.