Does male nudity count?

[gorfias]

So, I'm watching Katy Perry's E.T. (long story as to why, but, yeah, I like the song and the video is interesting.) It ends with a bare butt guy walking away from the camera's point of view. On Youtube!!! I don't think they do the same with females (except for the occasional, completely non-stimulating educational video).

I also just watched "Friends with Benefits" and "No Strings Attached" (another long story, but both movies are enjoyable. Stings is on Netflix streaming and worth a view.) Again, copious male butt and to be fair, a glimps of Mina Kunas' body double's bare butt, but I assume it's not really her, and we're talking a glimpse.

Why include all this male nudity while shying from female? I do note a serious decline in female nudity even in R rated movies. I don't think, in the internet age, you can sell a movie with female nudity, but I tend to think it a pleasant bonus. Why's it missing?

I think this suggests something about female (and possibly male homosexual?) sexualtiy. I get the impression they (females and gay men) don't have the same reaction to male nudity that straight men (and lesbians?) have to female nudity. Maybe we're just more stimulated by it and the powers that be want us to chill the heck out? If that is a big part of it, does male nudity not count as something to be kept under wraps in the way female nudity is?

Or is there another explanation? Your thoughts?

Edited Edit:
Doing some surfing and things aren't looking promising for us guys. Example:

http://www.articlesbase.com/sexuality-articles/male-nudity-does-not-lead-to-womens-sexual-arousal-1132886.html (consensus in this thread so far: this is not a very good article, I just picked it at random as a simple search brings you to a list of such articles).

"Male Nudity Does Not Lead to Women's Sexual Arousal"
Ah me. There's always chocolate.

Another EDIT: For those new to the thread, so far I'm mostly seeing 3 kinds of responses:

1) Apparant agreement or disagreement that women and gay/bi men do not typically have the same kind of stimulated response to male nudity that males and possibly gay/bi women do to female nudity;
or
2) Agnostic response: we really don't know that there is a trend of PG and TV and youtube male nudity that exceeds female nudity, nor that women and gay/bi men have a different response to male nudity than do men and possibly gay/bi women;
and one I think pretty interesting:
3) Straight men disproportionately govern what we see in the main stream. These men think that women, gay/bi men do not have a strong response to male nudity and likely themselves find it pretty damn funny and think everyone else does as well, so they don't think twice about including it where female nudity would not be allowed.

 

[gorfias]

1) I think you're calling three examples a trend and assuming a conspiracy without any evidence that there is one.

2) I think a simpler explanation is that some women do like looking at the male form. I recently met a woman who told me she sometimes stays up all night to watch the Old Spice guy on a horse commercial over and over again.

1) I recall another movie from way back, "The Return of the Secaucus Seven" by John Sayles (1979) there are men skinny dipping... but the music score was whimsical. It was still considered shocking back in the day. I'm kind of old. I reference 3 recent examples, but without a careful study, I do think I'm seeing something (no conspiracy required). First time I was really aggrevated: Siskel and Ebert were decrying the ratings system. Violence OK, sex and nudity not so much. I think it was Nightmare on Elm Street 3. In a dream, a girl gets out of shower and walks away from the camera's pov, shown only from the waist up. In a violent R rated movie! Later scenes, of course, include nightmarish violence.
My sense is movies were sexier early 70s to early 80s, particularly with regards to the female form. Something happened after that. Maybe I will do a study by selecting 100 R rated movies from Netflix. Off hand, check out the 1970s vampire movies. Then watch the Twilight movies. Oy.
2) Awesome story about the Old Spice! Gives me hope. That one article repeats a lot of what I'm seeing in web searches, even if it individually is not a great piece of research.

I don't think women are "virginal creatures" but that they are very different. All the way back to ancient Greece, men have suspected that when women do have fun with sex, they're having more fun than men. (There's a Greek story of a guy tasked by the gods to experience sex as both male and female. He does and reports girls have more fun. I think it is Athena that takes offense for some reason and strikes him blind. The other gods feel bad for him. He only reported back what his opinion was which they asked him to do, but they don't want to undo the another god's actions, so, rather than restore his vision, they give him the power of prophecy.)

Some other links state the gay men are stimulated by male nudity in a way that women are not. Interesting.

I've read that men are very much visually stimulated, while for women, sex is a multimedia experience. They're paying attention to all 5 (6!?!?) senses so that maybe visual stimulation exists, just not as strongly as the other sense are equally important to them.

That still brings us back to the questions:

Why so much male nudity in traditionally nudity free zones but to my knowledge, not so much female?

 

[Nocturnal Gentleman]

I don't know about this opinion. From my own experience I've seen far more naked women then men in both television and movies. Also, naked women tend to show much more of the woman's body (many times the entire body) where with men it's usually just the ass.

 

[Phasmal]

I don't know about this opinion. From my own experience I've seen far more naked women then men in both television and movies. Also, naked women tend to show much more of the woman's body (many times the entire body) where with men it's usually just the ass.

This.

Are you seriously complaining there aren't enough naked women in mainstream media?
This is when I throw my head back and laugh like a musketeer.

And can I add: as a woman, naked males are attractive.
Knock off the chocolate shit.

 

[gorfias]

... most vampire movies of the 70s and 80s were horror films, and horror films often have a sexual element because titillation provides a contrasting feeling from fear in order to provide good pacing.

Agreed, (and yeah, comparing Twighlight not fair) and to your point, Underworld is more action than horror so that series doesn't count either. I suppose 28 Days of Night should qualify. Not sexy. (Loved most of it though). I'll try to think up some more.

Another thing that might be a factor in you seeing less woman-butt on screen (though I still don't believe this is an actual trend) may be that with the rise of the Internet and Internet porn in particular, getting to see a woman's bare butt on screen just doesn't have the punch it once did.

Agreed. Movie Bob did a piece on the mediocre Heavy Metal (I like that movie) but why the amount of nostalgia for it? Bob posits that we're remmebering our reaction to boobs. Even if they were cartoon boobs, we just didn't get to see them that often pre-internet.

Back in the day you were talking about it was considered worth it for a man to sit through all of Doc Hollywood just to see that scene where a topless Julie Warner comes out of the water.

Errrrr, you got me. Been there, done that I can fast forward through "Trading Places" in about 5 minutes too.

Nowadays when any man can discretely pull up their private browsing window and find millions of movies with women doing just about anything he could care to imagine, a bit of female nudity in a proper feature film just doesn't have the same impact.

True. As I wrote in my first post, I don't think, in the Internet age, you can sell a movie with female nudity alone (see Show Girls, Strip Tease, etc.) But it tends to be a nice bonus to catch a glimpse (Ghost).

So, to make this sort of thread more interesting, I need to do a better job finding out if my perceptions (male nudity OK, female not OK, in certain settings... youtube, PG 13 and R rated movies, rated Mature TV).

I've got a number more examples. Male butt all over the place in the GREAT TV show American Horror Story. No female butt. And you should see the maid on that show. Still not enough to establish a trend. I'll have to think and research some.

 

[Zantos]

Snip

I'd like to say I quoted this because you make good points. In fairness you do, especially the part about how the most vocal people in a group are the ones that are complaining. I've felt this for years. I feel I can add very little to what you have said, many good points well made.

However the real reason I quoted was due to the massive amount of respect I have for your use of != in the first line. If you just sort of high five in an easterly direction we can get some time-delay long-distance five going.

OT: I suppose I should add something of my own to this before it starts to look like the first quarter of my dissertation. This article rings out as a "I think it so it must be the norm" job. Maybe she isn't aroused by male nudity, I'm not saying it's a bad thing if a woman isn't, but I'd imagine the majority of women would disagree with her.

 

[HardkorSB]

I do note a serious decline in female nudity even in R rated movies..

Watch "Piranha 3D". That and half the pop music videos that came out over the past few years.

I think this suggests something about female (and possibly male homosexual?) sexualtiy. I get the impression they (females and gay men) don't have the same reaction to male nudity that straight men (and lesbians?) have to female nudity. Maybe we're just more stimulated by it and the powers that be want us to chill the heck out? If that is a big part of it, does male nudity not count as something to be kept under wraps in the way female nudity is?

Or is there another explanation? Your thoughts?

I think you're just creating this idea in your head that someone is trying to keep women's naked bodies out of movies (again, watch "Piranha 3D") but men walking across the room with a bare ass has been done to death and has even been parodied in movies.
Like in "Loaded Weapon":

Plus, women like asses just as much as men do.
I personally know how to shake my ass and I've had it smacked and/or grabbed by women on several occasions in clubs (I actually like it somewhat, I guess that if I was a woman, I would be considered a slut but whatever . As for gays, I've had a few attempt to grope me as well but I just look at them and tell them that I will punch them in the face. That seems to keep them away.

In short, your theories are wrong, at least based on my experiences.

 

[gorfias]

I don't know about this opinion. From my own experience I've seen far more naked women then men in both television and movies. Also, naked women tend to show much more of the woman's body (many times the entire body) where with men it's usually just the ass.

There is a lot of female nudity to the point where we have to worry about expoitation, but I'm mostly writing of male nudity where you typically wouldn't have any at all. (US TV, even mature TV, youtube).

Even in R rated movies though, you have a point my missus has noted with aggrevation: you mostly cannot show a penis. Good way to end up with an NC17, death for most movies.

There are times when nudity, even a penis, is important to not breaking the natural flow of a scene, and directors are cowed into doing just that, taking odd shots and cuts to avoid that NC17.

Are you seriously complaining there aren't enough naked women in mainstream media?
This is when I throw my head back and laugh like a musketeer.

And can I add: as a woman, naked males are attractive.
Knock off the chocolate shit.

Not so much complaining as making an observation: in areas where nudity is usually forbidden (US TV, youtube) I am seeing a lot of male butt. (Just noted American Horror Story above). Why? Is it because male nudity doesn't count? You note taht you find the naked male form attractive. Elton John has said as much about the female form. That isn't the same thing as having a reaction similar to straight male response to female nudity.

That isn't to say women aren't sexual. (See "Eyes Wide Shut" for instance). Just different things get them going.

And I'm not laying off the chocolte. I got to use every tool in my aresenal.

Watch "Piranha 3D". That and half the pop music videos that came out over the past few years.

That was pretty good, in many ways, a throw back to the movies of the late 70's early 80's.

men walking across the room with a bare ass has been done to death and has even been parodied in movies.
Like in "Loaded Weapon":

You've almost made my point for me!!! Youtube!!! Male Butt!!! I write almost. I just did a quick search there for Splash Statue of Liberty and got the scene I was looking for, BUT, I had to log in to show I was over 18. Not so for what you posted. The difference? The sex of the butt.

Plus, women like asses just as much as men do.
I personally know how to shake my ass and I've had it smacked and/or grabbed by women on several occasions in clubs (I actually like it somewhat, I guess that if I was a woman, I would be considered a slut but whatever . As for gays, I've had a few attempt to grope me as well but I just look at them and tell them that I will punch them in the face. That seems to keep them away.

In short, your theories are wrong, at least based on my experiences.

Sounds like you're having a fun life and I salute you, but if women like the male form as much as men like theirs, why is there so much less (visually based) erotica for them? Again, not writing women are sexless. They have a LOT of erotica for them. It's just less visual than male's. My impression anyway. As I've written, you could probably research a book's worht of stuff on this kind of thing.

 

[Phasmal]

Are you seriously complaining there aren't enough naked women in mainstream media?
This is when I throw my head back and laugh like a musketeer.

And can I add: as a woman, naked males are attractive.
Knock off the chocolate shit.

Not so much complaining as making an observation: in areas where nudity is usually forbidden (US TV, youtube) I am seeing a lot of male butt. (Just noted American Horror Story above). Why? Is it because male nudity doesn't count? You note taht you find the naked male form attractive. Elton John has said as much about the female form. That isn't the same thing as having a reaction similar to straight male response to female nudity.

That isn't to say women aren't sexual. (See "Eyes Wide Shut" for instance). Just different things get them going.

And I'm not laying off the chocolte. I got to use every tool in my aresenal.

Its always nice to have a man around to explain my own gender to me. =P

Just today I saw a wang on Youtube, so its not that it doesn't count, its that its hard to enforce rules on such things.

I think you're focusing too much on the differences between male and female arousal WAY too much. You make it sound like my boyfriend would have to fire up complicated machinery before attempting foreplay. Trust me, we're not that complicated.
And I didn't mean naked males are attractive in an artistic Elton-John way. More in a `The things I would do to Ryan Reynolds` kind of way.

 

[gorfias]

Just today I saw a wang on Youtube, so its not that it doesn't count, its that its hard to enforce rules on such things.

I don't know why it is, but even with that whole big Internet out there, it is fun to catch something on youtube that shouldn't be there.

I think you're focusing too much on the differences between male and female arousal WAY too much. You make it sound like my boyfriend would have to fire up complicated machinery before attempting foreplay. Trust me, we're not that complicated.
And I didn't mean naked males are attractive in an artistic Elton-John way. More in a `The things I would do to Ryan Reynolds` kind of way.

That's reassuring.

When I was a teen, a (girl) friend with some sound equipment made a comedy skit in which a women tells her husband that all of his complicated efforts to excite her are for naught. "you wanna excite me? Try scrubbing the tub!... hey, where are you going? [sound of footseps padding away followed by the sound of vacume cleaner turning on]... George? Are you vacuming the living room!?!?! Don't stop!!! (etc.) Kind colored my world view some. It's been reinforced through experience.

It may be important, to be a sensitive lover, to acknowlege differences in how your mate gets arroused. I try to keep an open mind.

 

[Dr. Pepper Unlimited]

The opinion of one woman's article from several years back does not answer that question for ever woman. In fact, all it answers is her own opinion, which holds no water. The only opinion that matters is that of your partner (if that partner is a woman and you are a man). My girlfriend would kindly disagree and finds my physical form quite arousing. How do I know? Well, she blatantly says it. Simple enough, right?

Anyway, that's my two cents.

 

[ace_of_something]

I think it's because women are considered weaker and it is therefor considered more exploitative to show their trunk.

A lot of cases where we see a man's butt is a naked form which is different then a nude form... if that makes sense.
When a character is sexualized, dramatic (and in a man's case) powerful, intentional in the story or 'attractive' it's a nude form. Most sex scenes fall here.
When it's vulnerable, comedic, weak, or accidental it's a naked form. Think of sitcoms when characters get locked outside.
Nudity is R-Rated
Nakedness is PG-13

For whatever reason in american culture (can't speak for others) a womans bare bottom is strictly a 'nude' form, whereas a man's can both be nude and naked.

 

[chadachada123]

Welp, I don't think that I can contribute much to this. Yeah, society is a bit sexist in that regard.

Penis can be shown in an R-rated movie (see: Borat, etc), but a vag will never be onscreen while keeping an R rating, leaving it solely to the realm of smut. As the guy above me said, too, guy butts can be seen as "naked," while for some reason female butts are always "nude."

EDIT: Except, recently, Girl with the Dragon Tattoo had a ton of female butt and a bit of male butt, along with plenty of boobs, rape, sex and other stuff. So there are some exceptions.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

You might want to thank NYPD Blue for allowing male nudity... and grossing us the hell out for the way they pulled it off.
Google it, I'm not spelling it out for you.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I think this suggests something about female (and possibly male homosexual?) sexualtiy.

Yeah, but not what you were going for.

The vast majority of the media is made by heterosexual males for heterosexual males. Therefore, that sexuality is catered to more or less to the exclusion to everything else. There are exceptions, of course, but those are, well, exceptions.

You see this sort of thing around everywhere. People are (slowly) branching out to corner other niches, but it's still seen as easier and safer to go with the mainstream.

 

[gorfias]

This (MPA description) doesn't strictly pertain to TV or YouTube but I think will help explain:

From: ...
So the reason male butts may get more of a pass than female butts is because male butts are often seen as being humorous as opposed to sexual. I wouldn't conclude from this that women don't find male butts sexy, but rather that straight men don't usually find female butts to be ribald. For example, if there was a movie where female butt was exposed to moon for comedic value rather than to be sexual, it would also pass the same standards that let male butts be shown. To put it bluntly, when was the last time you saw female nudity depicted in a movie in a completely non-sexualized way?

MPA hypocracy, double standards and stifling of expression would, by itself, be a terrific thread. I saw a documentary about the frustration of many artists dealing with them (example: "Boys Don't Cry" initially got an NC17 because "Brandon" wipes her mouth after doing a friend a favor. NC17 can kill a movie as it will never get wide distribution).

But you guys are kind of getting to what's been puzzling me. For instance, male butt, even Ashton Kutcher's treated as comedic. Had they had a reason to have Natalie Portman walking around like that, I would have had to excuse myself from the room, no matter how funny they try to make it (Often felt that way about the very amusing scene at the Statue of Libery in "Splash".)

The vast majority of the media is made by heterosexual males for heterosexual males. Therefore, that sexuality is catered to more or less to the exclusion to everything else. There are exceptions, of course, but those are, well, exceptions.

You see this sort of thing around everywhere. People are (slowly) branching out to corner other niches, but it's still seen as easier and safer to go with the mainstream.

So, in your analysis, these powerful heterosexual males find nothing sexual about male butts and therefore are more likely to think it OK to show than female nudity, not realising that women and gay men are just as likely to be titilated as a straight man (or gay woman) by female nudity? Makes sense.