Does TES need an overhaul of combat?

[SajuukKhar]

No. No you can't. You could in Morrowind, when it was all dice rolls, but now, walking in front of people causes them to see you.

100 sneak, with the +sneak perks, yes, yes you can, as long as you are in the shadows, you can get two inches from a guys face ,and they wont see you.

I do it ALL the time.

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

No. No you can't. You could in Morrowind, when it was all dice rolls, but now, walking in front of people causes them to see you.

100 sneak, with the +sneak perks, yes, yes you can, as long as you are in the shadows, you can get two inches from a guys face ,and they wont see you.

I do it ALL the time.

Which wasn't what you said before. with MAX sneak and boosts to it, yes, you are a stealthy god. thats a REWARD. You play through the game training certain skillsets, and as a result you become stronger. Like you should.

And even then, you still can't stand directly IN FRONT of anyone but the fucking Falmer
Yes, you can get close, yes directly next to them, but not directly in front.
because then they spot you.
Always.

So, is sneak broken? NO. It is a high-risk playstyle that allows the player to easily eliminate enemies quickly, but leaves them highly vulnerable in a straight fight. yes, you can one-shot enemies, but to do so you either have to put yourself in melee range (with a dagger) or have a powerful bow and expensive arrows, which isn't silent and alerts all the other enemies nearby.
And neither of those weapons are a good choice for standard melee combat.

Combat in skyrim is only broken if you don't understand what game you are playing

 

[SajuukKhar]

Which wasn't what you said before. with MAX sneak and boosts to it, yes, you are a stealthy god. thats a REWARD. You play through the game training certain skillsets, and as a result you become stronger. Like you should.

And even then, you still can't stand directly IN FRONT of anyone but the fucking Falmer
Yes, you can get close, yes directly next to them, but not directly in front.
because then they spot you.
Always.

So, is sneak broken? NO. It is a high-risk playstyle that allows the player to easily eliminate enemies quickly, but leaves them highly vulnerable in a straight fight. yes, you can one-shot enemies, but to do so you either have to put yourself in melee range (with a dagger) or have a powerful bow and expensive arrows, which isn't silent and alerts all the other enemies nearby.
And neither of those weapons are a good choice for standard melee combat.

Combat in skyrim is only broken if you don't understand what game you are playing

Sneaking really isn't that high risk becuase even if you get discovered, everything does low amounts of damage to you that you can shrug off almost everything.

Also, one really shouldn't be able to become a stealth god, i do agree you should be able to et really stealthy, but its too easy, even at 80 sneak skill, to sneak kill mostly all enemies.

Also, I never said combat in Skyrim was broken, in fact, I am one of the few people who has said it is ok.

 

[WoW Killer]

Ewww, not VATS please. That'd be the wrong direction IMO. I'd much prefer a better hotkey system. It wouldn't be too difficult to make it work for consoles either. Just make use of modifiers. So instead of that shout key you've got a shout modifier; hold the modifier and press one of the four action buttons to perform one of four equipped shouts. Hold the ready weapon button and you can press an action button to ready one of four equipped weapons etc. So you might need a slightly different interface and control system for the console version. Cool, that's what we've wanted for ages.

I'll just ask how Sneak is OP

Because with a high sneak skill, and even one or two sneak perks, or sneak items, you can literally walk right in front of people's faces, and they don't see you.

That doesn't matter so much because it's endgame only (should also be easy to sort out with mods, just by putting a cap on the max value). The gamebreaking part is that you can perform a non-lethal sneak attack from a distance, then retreat unnoticed till people stop looking for you. Then you sneak back, do another pot shot, and repeat. There's only a handful of indoor mobs that can't be killed this way, and you don't need much more than the base levels for sneak and archery. You can also exploit the arrow noises to make mobs search in other places. After you've done a sneak attack, fire an arrow at a wall behind them and they'll ignore where you are and stare blankly at the wall for ages. It needs much better AI in future games.

 

[Darkbladex96]

the only thing combat in DS has on TES is that some weapons have special RT attacks is two handed and that the classes of weapons have different swings.

That doesnt translate well into first person though.

basically, all you guys are asking for is TES to have combat like condemed. I dreaded fighting things in that game for all of the right reasons.

Every action, every swing of your weapon or sidestep is an important action in DS combat.

In Skyrim you can just wail on enemies, you might get staggered occasionally but that's about it.

the only thing combat in DS has on TES is that some weapons have special RT attacks is two handed and that the classes of weapons have different swings.

Wut? The whole 'feel' is totally different. Have you even played Dark Souls ?

Wow, I didn't think 2 people could miss the point by so much. I can also tell that you haven't played condemn but how you only mentioned one part of the my post.

Basically let me just break your conceptions about these games right now.

- Both of these games are equally as brain dead, the only difference in difficult is that you can't lower dark souls challenge level. So enemies equal to you do huge damage. It's like that on skyrim too, if you turn the difficulty up.

- every action is only relevant in DS PvP, otherwise you get a shield with 100% phy dmg reduction, you hold block and you circle strafe everything. Works on almost every enemy, and every boss all the time. Some bosses do have energy bubble AoEs to keep you from doing this to them all day, but in the end if you just avoid that. You can still cheese them out. If you really think that every little detail of DS PvE combat matters, all you are accomplishing is making the game harder than it has to be.

- Both of these games let you just beat on enemies once you're strong enough. Difference is that skyrim has this thing called a difficulty slider. The 3 lowest difficulties arent very punishing at all. Elder scrolls games at highest difficulty are new game nightmares. Both games can be difficult if you make them difficult. The most complicated thing in DS PvE is recognizing reposite stances so that you don't get insta killed. As long as you have enough brain matter to block attack and dodge unblockable stuff you win.

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We aren't talking about the feel of the game, what you said is irrelevant because it's not on topic. The feel between these games will be completely different because they arent the same niche of RPG.

on a side note, its hilarious how many people throw the "have you even played dark souls herp derp" card around when someone's view of the game doesn't match how they view the game. I straight summed up the weapons in DS in one sentence, because frankly, its not that impressive.

You gonna tell me that I'm wrong? where was I wrong? In the extremely obvious and irrelevant point of how it feels?

Honestly I don't know what your point was here or if you even had one. You didn't add anything to the conversation and you didn't refute what I said. you just typed words and put an emoticon at the end of it. I guess you just wanted to waste my time.

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[endtherapture]

- Both of these games are equally as brain dead, the only difference in difficult is that you can't lower dark souls challenge level. So enemies equal to you do huge damage. It's like that on skyrim too, if you turn the difficulty up.

No because in Dark Souls each weapon has a completely different move set and enemies have patterns of attacks. In Skyrim every melee weapon is exactly the same with a slight difference in speed.

- every action is only relevant in DS PvP, otherwise you get a shield with 100% phy dmg reduction, you hold block and you circle strafe everything. Works on almost every enemy, and every boss all the time. Some bosses do have energy bubble AoEs to keep you from doing this to them all day, but in the end if you just avoid that. You can still cheese them out. If you really think that every little detail of DS PvE combat matters, all you are accomplishing is making the game harder than it has to be.

Good luck trying to block a Black Knight's attacks indefinitely when one hit takes 1/2-3/4s of your stamina away.

- Both of these games let you just beat on enemies once you're strong enough. Difference is that skyrim has this thing called a difficulty slider. The 3 lowest difficulties arent very punishing at all. Elder scrolls games at highest difficulty are new game nightmares. Both games can be difficult if you make them difficult. The most complicated thing in DS PvE is recognizing reposite stances so that you don't get insta killed. As long as you have enough brain matter to block attack and dodge unblockable stuff you win.

TES at hardest difficulty just inflates the health of the enemies, making all the battles just last longer. You can still pause and neck potions at Master difficulty it's just that battles take so much longer and there's more necking of potions and it's not much fun. It doesn't test your skill it just tests how many potions you got before you go into a fight.

 

[SajuukKhar]

No because in Dark Souls each weapon has a completely different move set and enemies have patterns of attacks. In Skyrim every melee weapon is exactly the same with a slight difference in speed.

And stagger chance, and each weapon type has a different reach.

TES at hardest difficulty just inflates the health of the enemies, making all the battles just last longer. You can still pause and neck potions at Master difficulty it's just that battles take so much longer and there's more necking of potions and it's not much fun. It doesn't test your skill it just tests how many potions you got before you go into a fight.

then don't spam potions and actually focus on blocking, and staggering enemies instead.

 

[WoW Killer]

TES at hardest difficulty just inflates the health of the enemies, making all the battles just last longer. You can still pause and neck potions at Master difficulty it's just that battles take so much longer and there's more necking of potions and it's not much fun. It doesn't test your skill it just tests how many potions you got before you go into a fight.

Have you tried not using potions? You've got to set your own challenges in TES. No potions, no enchants, no stealth, etc. Set a target for yourself. The combat isn't ultra deep or anything, but there's a lot more to it than trading blows so long as you don't exploit. You've got to use your staggers, retreat for stamina, use cover etc.

 

[endtherapture]

TES at hardest difficulty just inflates the health of the enemies, making all the battles just last longer. You can still pause and neck potions at Master difficulty it's just that battles take so much longer and there's more necking of potions and it's not much fun. It doesn't test your skill it just tests how many potions you got before you go into a fight.

Have you tried not using potions? You've got to set your own challenges in TES. No potions, no enchants, no stealth, etc. Set a target for yourself. The combat isn't ultra deep or anything, but there's a lot more to it than trading blows so long as you don't exploit. You've got to use your staggers, retreat for stamina, use cover etc.

The one time I actually had to use cover, it turned the game into a cover based shooter trading spells with some Dragon Priest for 30 minutes.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

I still think there should be a third melee skill tree for medium swords. I don't want to use a claymore all the time, and I'd like to see some bastard swords or Longswords that move faster that two handers but slower than one handed.

 

[WoW Killer]

The one time I actually had to use cover, it turned the game into a cover based shooter trading spells with some Dragon Priest for 30 minutes.

Sounds like a forced encounter when you were a bit too low level. Guessing the one in Labyrinthian at the end of the College chain? I spent most of that fight alternating Equilibrium and Fast Healing on my Mage. Much easier as melee, but then pretty much everything is.

But no, on Master you've got to make use of cover to survive a Dragon's breath attacks. Just simple stuff like running behind a building while they're flying around. At least till they've landed and you can interrupt them with bashes and shouts. And you won't get close to an Ice Mage without evasion and cover, potions or not.

I still think there should be a third melee skill tree for medium swords. I don't want to use a claymore all the time, and I'd like to see some bastard swords or Longswords that move faster that two handers but slower than one handed.

I must get around to attempting a mod one of these days. One style I always liked (though obviously inferior in Vanilla) is One-hander + Free-hand, so you get the speed of the One-handed weapon while being able to block like a Two-hander. I dunno why, but I've always hated the aesthetics of shields. I'd probably just put some optional perks in the One-handed line rather than make it an extra tree, like "Increases Stamina Regen while your off hand is empty". Then put in a range of Bastard Sword weapons to compliment it. I don't know how easy it would be, but there's the potential to mix up the animations, like using some of the Two-handed kill cams.

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

I honestly think its the enemy AI thats the problem, not the combat system. Fights against dragons and a few bosses in skyrim, who actually do something other than run at you or back away and cast spells, is some of the most exciting fights ive had in Elder Scrolls. Give the enemy tactics! Get the bandits to retreat and co-operate, sneak up on you and other such things.

 

[Darkbladex96]

- Both of these games are equally as brain dead, the only difference in difficult is that you can't lower dark souls challenge level. So enemies equal to you do huge damage. It's like that on skyrim too, if you turn the difficulty up.

No because in Dark Souls each weapon has a completely different move set and enemies have patterns of attacks. In Skyrim every melee weapon is exactly the same with a slight difference in speed.

- every action is only relevant in DS PvP, otherwise you get a shield with 100% phy dmg reduction, you hold block and you circle strafe everything. Works on almost every enemy, and every boss all the time. Some bosses do have energy bubble AoEs to keep you from doing this to them all day, but in the end if you just avoid that. You can still cheese them out. If you really think that every little detail of DS PvE combat matters, all you are accomplishing is making the game harder than it has to be.

Good luck trying to block a Black Knight's attacks indefinitely when one hit takes 1/2-3/4s of your stamina away.

- Both of these games let you just beat on enemies once you're strong enough. Difference is that skyrim has this thing called a difficulty slider. The 3 lowest difficulties arent very punishing at all. Elder scrolls games at highest difficulty are new game nightmares. Both games can be difficult if you make them difficult. The most complicated thing in DS PvE is recognizing reposite stances so that you don't get insta killed. As long as you have enough brain matter to block attack and dodge unblockable stuff you win.

TES at hardest difficulty just inflates the health of the enemies, making all the battles just last longer. You can still pause and neck potions at Master difficulty it's just that battles take so much longer and there's more necking of potions and it's not much fun. It doesn't test your skill it just tests how many potions you got before you go into a fight.

So you cant refute anything I said. Nothing you said even addressed what was in my post. You your first reply had nothing to do with what was said.

The second reply selectively pointed out blocking, even though I said a combination of blocking and strafing and dodging unblockables.

your third point is just far out there I don't know how to reply. Dark souls doesn't test your skills, it tests your patience. Hold block and dodge until you don't get insta killed.

Whoopie.

 

[Norrdicus]

Illusion in Skyrim is not useful. Muffle is easily recreated, invisibility as well, and both are surprisingly unreliable. The rest of the school requires the expenditure of a great many skill points to gain and value as well

I disagree, Rage and Calm effect spells should be in every assassin's spell list. Rage for making mooks fight each other, obviously, and a Calm spell will make any opponent turn their back on you long enough for even the clumsiest of backstab attempts.