Dog get's shot by police *WARNING* may upset alot of viewers.

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Danpascooch

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Apr 16, 2009
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DeadlyYellow said:
Pirate Kitty said:
Glad to see the forum is not jumping to conclusions here. /sarcasm

For all we know that dog was rabid and had killed a child in the neighborhood.
Indeed. The video is a bit confusing though. The dog is not stray, and apparently chained to the truck. There is barely any real context to work on.

Besides, is it crueler to shoot it or leave it to rot in a cage in a shelter?
To shoot it, definitely to shoot it.

No animals "rot" in a shelter, they are fed and cared for unless they are chosen to HUMANELY be put down.

I wish I could say he police had a reason, I really do, but he had the dog 100% under control, and it was standing perfectly still for 5 seconds leading up to the shot. I see no reason he couldn't have detained it awaiting a proper and humane euthanization if that was what the dog was to have.
 

Danpascooch

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Apr 16, 2009
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EllEzDee said:
Once again, why are Americans allowed to carry guns?
I'm sorry, are you saying the FREAKING POLICE should not be allowed to have guns?

How the hell would that work.

Police: "Dear psychotic heroin dealer who is firing at us with that Uzi, please put your hands on your head and remain still while we approach you with these handcuffs"

Psychotic Heroin Dealer: "No problem officer, I am 100% reasonable, and as we all know no criminal poses any sort of physical threat to a police officer, I'm happy that you have all chosen not to bring guns"

and they live happily ever after?

I get you want to yell at Americans and start a mini-flame war for some reason (probably an ignorant one) but saying police officers shouldn't have guns is absolute insanity.
 

Danpascooch

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Apr 16, 2009
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Pirate Kitty said:
Woodsey said:
You doubt it, you don't know it.

A 6 minute (silent) clip posted by a user in support of people who fight animal cruelty (a noble cause admittedly), with no context given, in the middle of a street in broad daylight - with several officers around.

It's not exactly convincing me yet. Don't get me wrong, I don't want the animal shot and I'd much rather it hadn't been, but forgive me for not simply assuming that a group of police officers are so vindictive as to kill a harmless animal.
Exactly.

Assumptions based on internet comments? No thank you.

Snarky Username said:
It's like you're assuming that just because he's a serial rapist automatically makes it ok to murder him...
Rapists deserve to be murdered. They forfeit their right to life.
First off, in the video he clearly has the dog under control, hell, the thing stays still for about 10 seconds leading up to the shot, and if he got bit it would be because of gross incompetence with that restraining tool. Seeing the fact that he had the dog under control, there is no reason under the law whatsoever for him to shoot the dog, whether it was rabid or not this is not the policeman's job.

Secondly, what the hell? Besides the obvious moral clusterfuck of saying Rape = Death in severity and the eye-for-an-eye logic that I frown upon, how exactly would this work? Here are some facts.

1.) It is statutory rape even if the woman says she is above 18 AND shows you a FAKE ID SHOWING HER OVER 18 (meaning in some cases it's IMPOSSIBLE to know you are committing rape) Some might say "don't have sex with anyone who looks under 18 then" but what about 19 year olds with a 16 year old girl who looks old for her age and has a fake idea? LITERALLY NO WAY TO AVOID THE RAPE.

2.) Would you rather be raped or killed? Honestly, this would mean the law was doing something WORSE than the original crime they are responding to. (ok, fine, this is not a "Fact" per say)

3.) People are falsely accused and convicted of rape all the time, it's fairly hard to distinguish between a rape and a pissed off female sociopath after sex who decides to pretend someone raped her. Would you be alright with these "whoopsie, we FUCKING KILLED YOU" cases?

4.) I'm against the death penalty in general because of the number of people exonerated by DNA evidence AFTER BEING KILLED. At least with life in prison a person can be released if they are later found innocent, no way of undoing an execution. Also, for anyone saying "well, it makes more financial sense to kill than to sentence to life in prison" first of all, you're heartless pricks, and secondly, it is actually MORE EXPENSIVE to perform an execution than to pay for life in prison.

So yeah, I couldn't disagree more.
 

Danpascooch

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Pirate Kitty said:
Glad to see the forum is not jumping to conclusions here. /sarcasm

For all we know that dog was rabid and had killed a child in the neighborhood.
Howell testified that the dog growled as he tried to load it into a truck, that it later broke free from a chain tied to the vehicle and eventually charged as he tried to capture it with a six-foot catchpole.
Did you see the dog CHARGE without the pole attached to it right before the shooting? I certainly didn't

I don't see any reason for the police to lie unless they did something wrong
 

JourneyThroughHell

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danpascooch said:
I'm against the death penalty in general because of the number of people exonerated by DNA evidence AFTER BEING KILLED. At least with life in prison a person can be released if they are later found innocent, no way of undoing an execution. Also, for anyone saying "well, it makes more financial sense to kill than to sentence to life in prison" first of all, you're heartless pricks, and secondly, it is actually MORE EXPENSIVE to perform an execution than to pay for life in prison.
There's a ton of things I can dispute in this post, like the "fact" that being raped is better than being killed, but I'm just going to argue with this one.

Can you imagine what life inprisonment is? Well, it's not fucking fun. It's so much not fucking fun that there were cases where people actually killed their cellmates to get the death penalty.

You can call everyone "heartless pricks" all you want, but at least they're "heartless considerate pricks".

And I don't see how bullets are more expensive then holding a guy in bars for the rest of his life. Unless you mean the lethal injection, of course.

I'm not saying
 

strum4h

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An old buddy of mine worked at a pound once. To all the people that think that they put stray dogs to sleep in a dignifying manner, they dont. They gas them in a tightly packed chamber which takes a bit for them to die in agonizing pain. That dog was lucky that it did not have to face that.
 

HandsomeJack

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The article you believe is the only further proof we need to hate the cops only solidified me as being on thier side. Cops werent to blame, owner was. Owner had previous record reguarding pets and a court order saying they werent to own another for two years. If the cops couldnt safely load it into the vehicle (as was mentioned in the report) they shouldnt risk either thier wellbeing or those of the neighboring commuinity should it get loose.

As someone who worked for the post office as a carrier for a while I can say this: EVERY time I was attacked by a dog the owner said "(S)he is friendly/isnt vicious and wont bite/charge/attack." Noone should have to take a risk on your dog if you dont keep it handled right.

I know the OP and some others may think I sound heartless, but I am an animal lover myself. I grew up in a household with 5 dogs and 13 cats (one of the dogs was a retired police dog of my grandfather's) and I loved them all dearly, but innocent humans come first. My rage goes not to the officer who was stuck dealing with a dog of unknown nature, but an owner who didnt have thier shit together enough to care for the dog that was counting on them! The dog died because the owner failed them. The contract between dog and man is simple: Dogs give thier all for us, all we have to do is take care of them right. That video hurt to watch.
 

HandsomeJack

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alex8039 said:
I'm guessing they collared it for an accurate shot. I thought he killed him straight away, why wait that long for the headshot? Cruel bastard...
Police (for legal reasons and effectiveness) shoot for center body mass. That second shot wasnt in any protocol, just the officer wanting to spare it pain. If he gets in trouble in all of this it will be for that second shot. He took a legal risk offering that mercy. Hats off to him.
 

lokun489

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Jun 3, 2010
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video with the dogs behavior and cops actions seems to be that the dog attacked someone they had to get it and one got the orders to kill it simple no need to go 'poor puppy!'
 

lokun489

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danpascooch said:
Pirate Kitty said:
Glad to see the forum is not jumping to conclusions here. /sarcasm

For all we know that dog was rabid and had killed a child in the neighborhood.
Howell testified that the dog growled as he tried to load it into a truck, that it later broke free from a chain tied to the vehicle and eventually charged as he tried to capture it with a six-foot catchpole.
Did you see the dog CHARGE without the pole attached to it right before the shooting? I certainly didn't

I don't see any reason for the police to lie unless they did something wrong
I did see it go for an attack, maybe you missed the growling and baring fangs at the end, I didn't.
 

Jinx_Dragon

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Sober Thal said:
This is what happens when you abandon animals... police are called, and if the animal is violent, it gets put down.

If you don't think that animal was a threat, I don't think you know much about dogs. Watch the video again, after he gets the collar stick on him. That is a violent animal that posed a threat.
Lets see how you respond if someone put a noose around your neck on the end of a pole. This reaction is natural for any animal that has to be secured in such a way, it is a painful thing to the dog and they are scared and will often growl and start trying to escape the pole. After a few minutes of not being strangled the fear begins to subside and the animal becomes controllable.

Even in this video you can see that happening, before the cop pulled out a gun the dog was just standing there, starting to calm down and enter the stage where you could herd it with ease. All they needed to do was wait, get it into the back of the truck and take it to the pound. If it was considered dangerous still at that point, well pounds are good at executing animals away from cameras in ways that don't piss people off...

Notice I used the word secured: This dog was secured. Not only was it leashed to begin with, notice it couldn't run away cause it was chained to the back of a car and only after the pole was on did the chain get released. After they got it on the end of the pole they had full control over it, that is what the pole is designed to do. It keeps the animal at one end while you herd it, against it's will, into the back of a car.

This dog was secured then they decided to shoot it! No ifs and buts about it, no making up reasons as to why they might of shot it for things we didn't see prior to the video or trying to excuse their action because the dog acted in the natural way a stray dog acts to being put on the pole.

What we see here is clean cut, they had a dog on the end of a pole, standing there, then casually drew a gun and shot it.

It would be the same as handcuffing a suspect and then putting a bullet into them. Only difference is human life is considered more important to humans. It is standard self-preservation, not going to argue the what life is more important then another, but that is the only reason they got away with shooting a already captured animal was because it wasn't human. If they had done that to a person, secured and then executed them, we would all be screaming murder.

If I had to throw my two cents in, I believe they wanted to kill it from the start... they knew they couldn't hit the damn thing till they had pinned it down and could, literally, put the gun to the back of it's head. Hey, at least we can be thankful for that, they could of easily just emptied their mags into the dog and hit someone standing on the sidelines.

Oh and PS: That video was shot with a cop camera, built into the vehicle. Can't really say the person filming it had alternative motives as it was the cops themselves...

On review:
I've thought about this more, read more into it, and still wonder if I am sane. My reason for being disappointed over this isn't the death of the dog, it was that the police officer in question felt the need to shoot it. I can't really fathom why, with the dog secured, you would really feel threatened. The only thing I can come up with is: Humans have irrational fears for their safety.

It has been a nagging fact of the modern police force that they are becoming more trigger happy in situations they do not need to be. Not just firearms, other devices like tasers and the like are used well out of proportion. I can't help but feel all this comes from the training they are being given in this day and age.

More military training is given priority, turning the police into a paramilitary arm of the government, over civil training with a emphasis that they are there to protect us. Hell, much of the training is being done by ex-military, along the lines of boot camp which was designed to make it easier to pull the trigger. This has led to a whole bunch of cops that feel they are going into a battle field every time they are called out, and that leads to irrational fear that leads to guns being discharged.

In this situation they probably heard the call for a violent dog and went in thinking they would be bitten and mauled. This rested in the foreground of their mind so heavily they really where feeling threatened, even though the dog was leashed to begin with and put on a pole to the end of it. They likely felt they felt they couldn't trust their animal control equipment, so when it responded in a normal way they may have very well been threatened, thinking it was going to slip free.

Till it slips free you shouldn't discharge the gun even if you do draw it. Hey, it isn't that irrational a fear that it might slip free and being prepared for the moment it does. Just damning to let fear drive you to the point you decide to preempt the possibility by discharging your weapon even when you are in full control of the situation. Sadly, humans are not rational creatures and police are human.

Going into a situation thinking your automatically in danger leads to situations where you over-react to anything. We need better training so our police are strong willed and minded, secure in what they are, as this will lead to less firearm discharges all around. Not just for the dogs in the world, they draw and discharge their weapons based on "I was sacred" with people far to often as well.
 

Jinx_Dragon

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Pirate Kitty said:
arc1991 said:
Considering it is chained up on a nearby car i highly doubt it.
Tell me: where was the dog prior to this? What is the dog's history? Who is the dog's owner? What were the police officers saying to one another?

Oh yeah, that's right, you don't know.
It is called reading the attached articles... in there you find everything out.

The dog was owned by a guy named Marcus Mays who had a history of abusing his animals in the past and not securing them properly. He had not registered this dog with the state, the largest thing they fined him for after shooting his dog... he had not filed the paperwork to own the dog, though he had registered his other four. As it had slipped out he was fined with a smaller fine for not having it leashed but the primary fine was paperwork related.

There isn't much of a history on the dog prior to this, some notes that it had tendencies that point to vicious behavior, but on this day it growled at a mother and her six year old child. Quite reasonable the police should be called to the scene here to remove the animal. However it was that mother who chained the animal, which raises questions to if it was as violent an animal to warrants being shot. Very likely all she wanted was the animal removed, as it had growled at her daughter, and that was more then reasonable and had no clue the cops where going to respond so violently and likely feels a bit crappy that she did the right thing and it led to this mess.

Given the history I had seen the dog was probably going to, one day, bite someone and be put down. Still, it had yet to actually bite anyone and only growled and barked at people. Walk down any street with lots of animals, particularly rural areas, and you can guarantee to be growled at by at least a dozen dogs. It is a natural thing with dogs to make a fuss when someone strange walks by, hell it is one of the reasons we kept them for thousands of years... good warning systems.

What the offers are saying, no one will know that one though. No sound on the video and no transcripts of the radio calls.

Answers some of your questions?
 

EllEzDee

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Nov 29, 2010
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gamerguy473 said:
EllEzDee said:
Once again, why are Americans allowed to carry guns?
1. That was a cop. Not a citizen.
2. Even if it were a citizen we have the 2nd amendment.
Cops sorta need guns to protect themselves and others against extremely violent criminals and other trivial things like that.
They don't need guns. Not a single person in the entire world has any need for a weapon. They just want them. And what's the excuse? To protect against other people who want weapons. Oh hoh hoh, that's good.
 

EllEzDee

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danpascooch said:
EllEzDee said:
Once again, why are Americans allowed to carry guns?
I'm sorry, are you saying the FREAKING POLICE should not be allowed to have guns?

How the hell would that work.

Police: "Dear psychotic heroin dealer who is firing at us with that Uzi, please put your hands on your head and remain still while we approach you with these handcuffs"

Psychotic Heroin Dealer: "No problem officer, I am 100% reasonable, and as we all know no criminal poses any sort of physical threat to a police officer, I'm happy that you have all chosen not to bring guns"

and they live happily ever after?

I get you want to yell at Americans and start a mini-flame war for some reason (probably an ignorant one) but saying police officers shouldn't have guns is absolute insanity.
Exactly how it works in England and most of Europe. Police carry batons, pepper spray and non leathal weapons. If a truly dangerous human being is noted, which is highly unlikely what with the gun laws in place, then an armed contingent will arrive to take him down. Much better than giving Tom Dick and Harry an armed pistol without any kind of crash course lesson on using it.
 

CaptainKoala

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May 23, 2010
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EllEzDee said:
gamerguy473 said:
EllEzDee said:
Once again, why are Americans allowed to carry guns?
1. That was a cop. Not a citizen.
2. Even if it were a citizen we have the 2nd amendment.
Cops sorta need guns to protect themselves and others against extremely violent criminals and other trivial things like that.
They don't need guns. Not a single person in the entire world has any need for a weapon. They just want them. And what's the excuse? To protect against other people who want weapons. Oh hoh hoh, that's good.
It is our explicit Constitutional right to have them.
Look at the countries that have banned guns outright. In the UK, since police officers were banned from carrying guns, gun related crimes in the UK have gone up 200 percent!
What's that tell you? That even though people aren't allowed to have them, there are absolutely no shortages of guns for the criminals. If I lived in the UK do you think I would trust my life with police officers that can't even protect themselves, let alone the citizens? No way. See, in America, 99.9% of gun owners use them for perfectly legitamage reasons.
If we banned them, criminals would still use them. And if criminals couldn't get their hands on guns, do you really think that would stop them? Do you think that there was no such thing as murder or armed robbery until the invention of the gun? Of course there was. In fact, the average murder rate was higher before the invention of the gun than it is now. That is because criminals know that other people can have guns too. If citizens can't have guns anymore, there is no hesitation for criminals to do what they want because they know that everybody is an easy target because nobody is armed.

Oh and your argument: "Not a single person in the entire world has any need for a weapon." is absolute bull crap.
I guess the Secret Service should stop carrying pistols. Who needs to protect the President?
The Military? Pffffffft! They don't need guns! they'll take on enemy armed soldiers that do have guns with their bare fists!
Way to think that argument through!
 

Neverhoodian

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EllEzDee said:
They don't need guns. Not a single person in the entire world has any need for a weapon. They just want them. And what's the excuse? To protect against other people who want weapons. Oh hoh hoh, that's good.
You know, that would work...if dangerous criminals didn't ALREADY HAVE GUNS.

Are you seriously telling me that cops shouldn't defend themselves or innocent lives because the deranged psychotics in the world shouldn't have the weapons they own? I think you'll find murderers don't care much about such trivialities.

Also, I find it a bit weird when people go all nuts over a dog getting killed. Sure it's unfortunate and sad, but it's just a dog.

"Hey, did you hear a person was killed?"
"Oh man, that's too bad."

"Hey did you hear a dog was killed?"
"OMG NOT THE FLUFFEH DOGGIES BAWWWWWWWWWWW!"
 

mr_rubino

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Sep 19, 2010
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It's pretty clear that between dogs and rapists, we've given up completely on a logical discussion. Why is this thread still open?
 

Danpascooch

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Apr 16, 2009
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lokun489 said:
danpascooch said:
Pirate Kitty said:
Glad to see the forum is not jumping to conclusions here. /sarcasm

For all we know that dog was rabid and had killed a child in the neighborhood.
Howell testified that the dog growled as he tried to load it into a truck, that it later broke free from a chain tied to the vehicle and eventually charged as he tried to capture it with a six-foot catchpole.
Did you see the dog CHARGE without the pole attached to it right before the shooting? I certainly didn't

I don't see any reason for the police to lie unless they did something wrong
I did see it go for an attack, maybe you missed the growling and baring fangs at the end, I didn't.
First of all, did the word "growling" somehow become synonymous with the phrase "broke free and CHARGED" because if so, I missed the definition change.

And secondly, the video was without sound, and crappy resolution, not only is there no way you could have heard the growl, but I doubt you'd be able to see a slight bearing of fangs anyway, I just watched the video again, and I didn't see it at all, there was no noticeable growling within 10 seconds of the shot.

Also, when the hell has GROWLING been cause to shoot a restrained dog? If that were the case 90% of dogs that were restrained would never make it to the shelter.