Don't go to college (if you're in college, drop out)

[Shivarage]

My teacher told my class that we all need degrees and we need to make sure our occupation will still be needed by the time we apply. I've heard of people who were passed by McDonalds because they were over qualified. Who's really to blame, the student who needs to decide their occupation by sophomore year or the people who didn't guide them while they were making their decisions?

You will ALWAYS be told that, guess what keeps the wages low for workers? that's right... oversupply

 

[McMullen]

I've been making minimum wage for the last three and a half ears working in a retail store. I only get about 20 hours a week. I owe $11,000 on my college loan (pretty low by most standards) for my bachelors of science degree in Business Administration. I've applied for dozens and dozens of jobs across two major cities over the last two years.

I recently applied to work at the local Pepsi warehouse which paid $13 an hour. At my workplace, I overheard someone mentioning that their friend got a job there. This friend never graduated high school. So yeah, don't bother going to school. Waste of your time and money. There's no defense of it. The only way I have the shit job I have now is because my dad worked there and complained to my old boss enough to hire me.

College does not automagically guarantee you a job. The real work begins after you graduate. You have to out-compete everyone else, and if you do not make yourself the best candidate in your employer's or client's or potential customer's eyes, then your degree and college experience is worth nothing.

I have a BS degree. I did not take advantage of it. The people who graduated with me did, and have gone on to bigger and better things. What I did do was put another of my talents to use and excel in that, and that is how I've made a living.

Degrees help, but if you're not willing to commit yourself to your career, then the only thing that can help you is friends in high places.

 

[zelda2fanboy]

Unemployment statistics include those actively seeking employment, so yeah, you're included.

Or maybe not, since clearly you aren't, or you would have gotten something. Even just tossing your resume up on Monster, CareerBuilder etc without specifically applying for anything will get you a response. Not the kind of response anyone really wants, being that it'll just be some desperate staffer trying to get warm bodies for crap jobs, but a response nonetheless.

They don't include the currently employed that are looking for jobs. Therefore I am not included. Let me show you the companies I have applied for specifically and received rejection e-mails from (no interviews). Keep in mind, I have three years of warehouse and retail experience. This isn't a complete list.

Spoiler

Chrysler (about four positions)
HP (warehouse)
Asset Acceptance (IT)
Oakland University (six positions, mostly secretaries)
Trillium (warehouse)
Dell (customer service)
GM (two positions, secretaries)
Pepsi (warehouse)
CSC (analyst)
BASF (loading trucks)
Armstrong (multiple times, production line)
Baker and Taylor (five different positions)
Flagstar Bank (teller)
Penske (analyst)
UTI, (don't even remember)
Best Buy (about five times for the retail position I have right now)
Kohls (once for the same job I have now)

 

[evilneko]

Interesting how you avoid the reality that some jobs just need education. I wonder if your attitude is why you don't manage to have a job or anything. It sure seems to like confirming blatantly stupid advice as good advice. Also you seem incapable of focusing on the issue and instead choose to rant and rave childishly. Doesn't matter if there's a civil engineer that can't find a job. There still are civil engineering jobs and they are not held by people who follow your awful advice.

Find me one civil engineering job. My boss would really like to know. He'll even relocate.

Mortai won't, but I will.

http://www.careerbuilder.com/JobSeeker/Jobs/JobDetails.aspx?IPath=ILKGTV0C&ff=21&APath=2.31.0.0.0&job_did=JHN2LM74BPQ8GPG1RPW

Well, you only asked for one. I could post more.

Unemployment statistics include those actively seeking employment, so yeah, you're included.

Or maybe not, since clearly you aren't, or you would have gotten something. Even just tossing your resume up on Monster, CareerBuilder etc without specifically applying for anything will get you a response. Not the kind of response anyone really wants, being that it'll just be some desperate staffer trying to get warm bodies for crap jobs, but a response nonetheless.

They don't include the currently employed that are looking for jobs. Therefore I am not included. Let me show you the companies I have applied for specifically and received rejection e-mails from (no interviews). Keep in mind, I have three years of warehouse and retail experience. This isn't a complete list.

Spoiler

Chrysler (about four positions)
HP (warehouse)
Asset Acceptance (IT)
Oakland University (six positions, mostly secretaries)
Trillium (warehouse)
Dell (customer service)
GM (two positions, secretaries)
Pepsi (warehouse)
CSC (analyst)
BASF (loading trucks)
Armstrong (multiple times, production line)
Baker and Taylor (five different positions)
Flagstar Bank (teller)
Penske (analyst)
UTI, (don't even remember)
Best Buy (about five times for the retail position I have right now)
Kohls (once for the same job I have now)

So what have you been doing the other 100 weeks you've been looking for work?

 

[zelda2fanboy]

Mortai won't, but I will.

http://www.careerbuilder.com/JobSeeker/Jobs/JobDetails.aspx?IPath=ILKGTV0C&ff=21&APath=2.31.0.0.0&job_did=JHN2LM74BPQ8GPG1RPW

Well, you only asked for one. I could post more.

Cool. Thanks, I'll let him know.

 

[the Dept of Science]

I'm going to sympathise with this guy actually. Not EVERYBODY in the world should drop out of college, that would be stupid. There's a big list of important jobs that we need educated people to do.

I do however feel that the college system is in many ways deeply flawed and a lot of people are encouraged to go into it when they really shouldn't. I'm currently in my third year of studying and most of the people I know would describe themselves as severely disillusioned with the whole experience. Essay writing is only good if you want to be an academic and sometimes I feel like academia is all that university is aiming us towards.
Lots of people finish university with large debts and non-employable skills. For them, those 3 or 4 years would have been far better spent getting work, building up a CV etc.

I found this an interesting article on the subject:
http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-question-youre-not-asking-should-you-go-to-college/

 

[zelda2fanboy]

That's interesting. Perhaps the reason you don't have a job is the fact that you have issues reading what was said? I'm not going to find a civil engineering job for someone who can't even read my post properly. Because I pointed out that there are civil engineers with jobs, not that I know of an open one. But go on, ignore reality. I'm sure that's about the only way to continue your delusion that there's no point to college. Maybe that delusion makes you feel better or something and that's why you cling onto it so tightly.

It doesn't make me feel better. I feel like shit actually. Believe me, I want to be proven wrong. And the best way to do that would be a decent job, not just for me, but for all the people I know with an education who got screwed.

 

[lRookiel]

Hmmmmm, all this negativity will definitely be a factor, if you say you havn't gotten an interview, you may need to work on something, Perhaps your CV? I dunno but your attitude isn't helping.

Also how many jobs did you apply for? you can expect to see dozens of rejections because there are atleast 10 other people applying for these jobs too, probably who are more qualified in some way than you (Clubs, extra curricular activities, shining character references, previous experience etc.) I'm glad your aiming low because thats the best way to start, near the bottom.

The best thing you can do is give up keep trying, make yourself stand out. I'm guessing that person got the job you mentioned because they know someone in the company and that person gives them a great character reference, ba da bing! ba da boom! the non qualified circus monkey gets the job and the graduate student who has a degree doesn't. It's a damn cruel world out there you just have to make the best of it.

Yes I'm good at giving advice when I can actually be bothered, I personally am shitting myself. over 1 million people unemployed in the UK all searching for jobs (Maybe not some), I'm just going to try my best and hopefully it will pay off. If not, keep trying.....

Listen to my advice, not just you OP, everyone, don't drop out, keep going and everything will turn out ok.

 

[zelda2fanboy]

To OP

You are talking to a population of sheltered, brainwashed drones
They will not listen until it is too late, they have not thought that SOMEONE has to pay back the money for their loans and we both know the number who don't pay back vastly outweigh the few who do

Thanks for trying, now we can sit back and watch the world collapse from their own ignorance and "education" that provides them with the most useless skill ever invented... essay writing

Lol. Essay writing is probably what brought me here to do this in the first place. I don't like to think of anyone as "brainwashed drones" though. I was like them once, cautiously believing what I was doing was what was best for me. Everyone is worthwhile and capable of useful thought. Everyone here, "educated" or not, deserves a chance.

 

[zelda2fanboy]

Hmmmmm, all this negativity will definitely be a factor, if you say you havn't gotten an interview, you may need to work on something, Perhaps your CV? I dunno but your attitude isn't helping.

Also how many jobs did you apply for? you can expect to see dozens of rejections because there are atleast 10 other people applying for these jobs too, probably who are more qualified in some way than you (Clubs, extra curricular activities, shining character references, previous experience etc.) I'm glad your aiming low because thats the best way to start, near the bottom.

Here's a sampling of some of the jobs I've applied to. I'm not going to give up, namely because I don't want to starve/live with my parents the rest of my life. I'd like to think my attitude has an effect, but none of these businesses have ever met me. I mean, I don't have "this is pointless" written on my resumé. I just think "everything's going to be ok" is the wrong attitude to have at this point.

Spoiler

Chrysler (about four positions)
HP (warehouse)
Asset Acceptance (IT)
Oakland University (six positions, mostly secretaries)
Trillium (warehouse)
Dell (customer service)
GM (two positions, secretaries)
Pepsi (warehouse)
CSC (analyst)
BASF (loading trucks)
Armstrong (multiple times, production line)
Baker and Taylor (five different positions)
Flagstar Bank (teller)
Penske (analyst)
UTI, (don't even remember)
Best Buy (about five times for the retail position I have right now)
Kohls (once for the same job I have now)

 

[Esotera]

My degree has ~90% employment/further study rate 6 months after graduation, so I think I'll probably stay, even though it means going into a job completely different from what I'm studying. Money is not a gigantic issue for me anyway, and uni is quite a fun experience sometimes.

 

[The Abhorrent]

Post-secondary education is definitely not a waste... well, not all of it. Quite a few of the programs offered by many institutions might not exactly be useful for employability beyond the benefit of having it when the other guy doesn't. Nevertheless, quite a few professions require a post-secondary education in order to be considered at all. The best indication is if it requires a liscence to practice; so you're looking medical doctors, professional engineers, and so on.

---

As for myself, I'm in the last semester of my civil engineering degree (with a focus on structural design); and where I am, liscensure is a requirement to practice.

Still, I recently learned of something in States... and the fact it exists out of necessity isn't exactly a good thing. It's called the "Fundamentals of Engineering Exam", and it's more or less the requirement for becoming an E.I.T. in the States; not a bad idea in theory, but wouldn't it be simpler or make sure the engineering education programs offered by post-secondary institutions is up to par? It certainly works in other countries, and those from those outside programs who do take the exam actually end up doing rather well.

Well, it so happens that many of those in the States programs are not up to par.

The exam is there to ensure that those who are trying to become E.I.T.'s have the technical knowledge required, and unfortunately the education programs aren't regulated enough (if at all) to ensure some sort of baseline level of quality. It's a sad state of affairs in my opinion; makes sense, but not something I like to see.

---

Another point this raised was something which could be very unfortunate for the situation in the States as well, especially if the situation above is not an isolated incident.

One thing I've heard as very important in the States is the importance of getting into a good post-secondary institution instead of any one. Sure, getting into one of the better ones is always a good thing; but should the others at least be half-decent? Regrettably, I'm starting to see hints that it may not be so.

I'm not entirely sure why higher education isn't as highly valued in the States as it is elsewhere, and unfortunately that tends to create a cycle of reinforcement (though the inverse is also true). The less educated some one is, the less they value education in general; the more educated, the more they value it. If the quality of the programs was higher and led to more tangible results, the latter (and preferred) situation may crop up a bit more; that means a bit of quality control & regulation by some official entity, which may not go over well with people.

A sad situation, but what else can be said?

 

[McMullen]

That's interesting. Perhaps the reason you don't have a job is the fact that you have issues reading what was said? I'm not going to find a civil engineering job for someone who can't even read my post properly. Because I pointed out that there are civil engineers with jobs, not that I know of an open one. But go on, ignore reality. I'm sure that's about the only way to continue your delusion that there's no point to college. Maybe that delusion makes you feel better or something and that's why you cling onto it so tightly.

It doesn't make me feel better. I feel like shit actually. Believe me, I want to be proven wrong. And the best way to do that would be a decent job, not just for me, but for all the people I know with an education who got screwed.

Seriously, your attitude about this whole thing might be your biggest problem. If you do get an interview and the interviewer hears what we're hearing, or suspects that you're the kind of person who would say the things you've been saying, you won't get the job, because what you sound like is a person who thinks the world owes him something. Not only that, but when the world repeatedly shows you that that's not the case, rather than learning from it, you start sulking on the internet. In fact, maybe they're reading whatever blogs or facebook posts you've made before doing interviews (lots of companies do this), and toss your resume in the trash as soon as they see what you've written. I would never hire someone like you because I know that they make bad workers.

Even if they aren't checking your online background, you should seriously consider the possibility that you're doing something wrong, or you're not making your application attractive enough. Get advice from people on writing your resumes and cover letters. Make friends who can put in a good word for you or find you new contacts. Do something that makes it obvious that you are self-motivated, well-adjusted, and able to get shit done whether there's obstacles in the way or not.

 

[Chemical Alia]

I have a master's degree and I'm about $90k in the hole with student loans, and if I could go back in time and do it again I wouldn't change a thing. Even though a degree isn't required in my field, I am better educated and more well-rounded than if I hadn't gone to college and this has made me a better artist. Sorry to hear life sucks so badly for you.

 

[zelda2fanboy]

Seriously, your attitude about this whole thing might be your biggest problem. If you do get an interview and the interviewer hears what we're hearing, or suspects that you're the kind of person who would say the things you've been saying, you won't get the job, because what you sound like is a person who thinks the world owes him something. Not only that, but when the world repeatedly shows you that that's not the case, rather than learning from it, you start sulking on the internet. In fact, maybe they're reading whatever blogs or facebook posts you've made before doing interviews (lots of companies do this), and toss your resume in the trash as soon as they see what you've written. I would never hire someone like you because I know that they make bad workers.

Even if they aren't checking your online background, you should seriously consider the possibility that you're doing something wrong, or you're not making your application attractive enough. Get advice from people on writing your resumes and cover letters. Make friends who can put in a good word for you or find you new contacts. Do something that makes it obvious that you are self-motivated, well-adjusted, and able to get shit done whether there's obstacles in the way or not.

I'd love to believe someone would go to the effort of researching these things about me. (Also, how will they do this if I have my facebook account access limited? I find this claim to be media hype, outside of work in web journalism maybe. I've never applied for a job as "zelda2fanboy" either.)

I can act fairly convincingly and I can come off as well adjusted when I want to. I've had dates who will attest to this (they found out I was desperate and crazy much later). Hey, any acting jobs available? (I'm joking.)

 

[zelda2fanboy]

I have a master's degree and I'm about $90k in the hole with student loans, and if I could go back in time and do it again I wouldn't change a thing. Even though a degree isn't required in my field, I am better educated and more well-rounded than if I hadn't gone to college and this has made me a better artist. Sorry to hear life sucks so badly for you.

Hey, you learned a useful skill. I can't business anybody. If you had done what many on this forum believed was "correct," you could have gone into a more practical scientific field and become the useless shell of a person that I am. No one should waste their time and money on a degree for something that they have no passion for. The people I've heard of who had positive enjoyable collegiate experiences did so because they were doing something they loved anyways. Maybe I should have put that in the OP.

 

[About69AngryMidgets]

Keep in mind that companies say they have an equal hiring policy, they really dont. In these backwater towns they dont evan read my resume, cause they dont know my family/someone who does, i practically dont exist on google/facebook, and i have little work experience vs the guy who they knew, who didnt evan finish high school yet, and has a facebook, without experience gets him the job.

 

[zelda2fanboy]

The degree I'm applying to has a 95% employment rate so it would make sense for me to do it.

Sorry your life sucks OP but it's no reason for everyone else to drop out.

For new graduates? What is this degree?

 

[McMullen]

snip

I'd love to believe someone would go to the effort of researching these things about me. (Also, how will they do this if I have my facebook account access limited? I find this claim to be media hype, outside of work in web journalism maybe. I've never applied for a job as "zelda2fanboy" either.)

I can act fairly convincingly and I can come off as well adjusted when I want to. I've had dates who will attest to this (they found out I was desperate and crazy much later). Hey, any acting jobs available? (I'm joking.)

Well, my non-educated friends and family, as well as the educated ones, are all finding jobs. If you're not, something's wrong, and it's not the job market or the higher education system. Somehow you're less attractive than the other candidates, and are going to stay unemployed until you change that. If you continue to deflect suggestions or criticisms, or come up with excuses for why x, y, and z aren't working for you, it will only divert your energy and time from addressing your actual problem. The best thing you can do is get off this forum and do some serious introspection, figure out what you're doing wrong, and correct it. That's all I can say that will help you.