Don't say that's retarded, it hurts special kids feelings NOT ABOUT CALLING SPECIAL KIDS RETARDED

[Terramax]

I use the word from time to time. Doesn't even cross my mind that it was originally used to describe kids with 'special' needs. And I reckon most people who use it don't, they just think of it as a harsher way of saying 'stupid'. In fact, it wasn't until recently (about a year or two again) when it came to my attention is was originally used as such.

 

[PeterMerkin69]

Part of being an adult is recognizing that not everyone thinks the same things you do and that your actions have consequences to others. Sadly, a lot of Americans suffer some form of adolescent disability in that respect, and think they can just do what they want and fuck anyone who feels a consequence from it. But one day we must all enter the adult world and recognize that our choices in words matter. Yes, you have the legal right to say "retarded". The rest of us have the right to judge you for it. And tell you we're judging you for it, and recommend that if you don't want to be judged for it, that you stop using it.

You're begging a lot of questions here. Why do words matter? What objective quality do they have that gives them such great power over us? I'm not being confrontational; I'm genuinely interested in your response because I've never seen a concrete explanation of this phenomenon, and it's something that escapes my intuitive understanding.

Clearly, in this context, I'm of the opinion that the relevant part of being an adult is in controlling our own reactions to external stimuli. We go to prison if we kill our unfaithful spouses. We're to turn the other cheek. We're expected to symmetrically participate in society when we've been dealt an asymmetrical hand by forces beyond our control. Why would it be any different for hurtful words?

 

[Entitled]

Why do words matter? What objective quality do they have that gives them such great power over us?

Why would it need to have any "objective quality" beyond the obvious? If I do something that makes you feel bad, then I hurt you by doing that thing. Hurting others is bad.

We're to turn the other cheek. Why would it be any different for hurtful words?

That phrase would be more meaningful if you wouldn't put it into the mouth of the offended party. This way, it really just comes off as: "YOU are supposed to turn the other cheek, when I AM calling you names", while the orignal phrase was supposed to be about how WE ALL should respect each other, not used as a way to tell other people exactly how many rights they have.

 

[PeterMerkin69]

Why would it need to have any "objective quality" beyond the obvious? If I do something that makes you feel bad, then I hurt you by doing that thing. Hurting others is bad.

Because things like "bad" are subjective value judgements. Subjectivity isn't exactly helpful in determining useful absolutes to apply to everyone, especially when the supposed hurtful reaction is itself so subjective.

If I'm not offended by abuse jokes and say we should allow them, and another victim is offended and says we shouldn't, how do you reasonably decide whose opinion should be used to determine acceptable speech without an outside measure? You can't.

That phrase would be more meaningful if you wouldn't put it into the mouth of the offended party. This way, it really just comes off as: "YOU are supposed to turn the other cheek, when I AM calling you names", while the orignal phrase was supposed to be about how WE ALL should respect each other, not used as a way to tell other people exactly how many rights they have.

If we're not going to tell each other what rights we have, who will?

I don't think we should be following the advice of someone whose ass was nailed to a piece of tree anyway.

 

[Entitled]

If I'm not offended by abuse jokes and say we should allow them, and another victim is offended and says we shouldn't, how do you reasonably decide whose opinion should be used to determine acceptable speech without an outside measure? You can't.

If we're not going to tell each other what rights we have, who will?

The point is, that polite language is not a matter of "rights" to begin with.

As Katatori-kun just said: "you have the legal right to say "retarded". The rest of us have the right to judge you for it."

You are allowed to act like an asshole. You just shouldn't.

 

[PeterMerkin69]

Because some people believe they matter. Remember, meaning is co-constructed.

But isn't this an appeal to consequence? Believing it's true isn't the same as it actually being true. And besides, it still doesn't help us determine whose beliefs take precedence over another. Outside of subjective feelings of sympathy, which is equivalent to saying, "because I want 2," on what grounds do you side with the offended over the person who says it's fine and dandy to call them, well, a dandy?

This sounds like a strawman response.

No, I was providing context for what appears to be a logical inconsistency in polite society's handling of butthurt.

As Katatori-kun just said: "you have the legal right to say "retarded". The rest of us have the right to judge you for it."

You are allowed to act like an asshole. You just shouldn't.

You misunderstand. I'm not referencing rights at all. I'm asking for reasonable justification of that judgement. When you judge me you open yourself up to the same scrutiny that applies to me when I offend people.

"You just shouldn't" isn't a reason or a justification; it's something you tell a naive child because you don't have a better answer when they question your authority.

 

[OverlordSteve]

Because some people believe they matter. Remember, meaning is co-constructed.

But isn't this an appeal to consequence? Believing it's true isn't the same as it actually being true. And besides, it still doesn't help us determine whose beliefs take precedence over another. Outside of subjective feelings of sympathy, which is equivalent to saying, "because I want 2," on what grounds do you side with the offended over the person who says it's fine and dandy to call them, well, a dandy?

This sounds like a strawman response.

No, I was providing context for what appears to be a logical inconsistency in polite society's handling of butthurt.

As Katatori-kun just said: "you have the legal right to say "retarded". The rest of us have the right to judge you for it."

You are allowed to act like an asshole. You just shouldn't.

You misunderstand. I'm not referencing rights at all. I'm asking for reasonable justification of that judgement. When you judge me you open yourself up to the same scrutiny that applies to me when I offend people.

"You just shouldn't" isn't a reason or a justification; it's something you tell a naive child because you don't have a better answer when they question your authority.

I think you're looking in the wrong place. You seem to be searching for an objective answer to the question of "why not use these words." I've always seen it as a question of "why" in the first place. Why would you willingly do something that you know causes other people pain? If you want to insult someone or describe a situation, there are many other words similar to the colloquial meaning of "retarded" that have less or no baggage attached to them. Why use and argue for a word you have to defend when it's so each to just choose another?

 

[s0p0g]

I disagree [...] as someone with a family member who is special needs/disabled. Or might be considered 'retarded' I think it has a lot to do with intent.

When someone uses it as an insult, I know they aren't talking about my brother. They aren't maliciously thinking of anyone who is actually special needs. I dunno, I don't see the point of getting all riled up about it.

but... but... what are you doing? you are reasonable! you show common sense!

i am sorry, but today, in this day and age of political correctness, when "has special (=more) needs" (which is neutral, DEscriptive) becomes plain "special" (which connotatively is a positive term, PREscriptive), we cannot have this common sense stuff you show - that's insane! i mean, special!

 

[LetalisK]

I do this weird thing where I acknowledge the company I'm with and the environment I'm in and adjust my speech accordingly.

 

[Karathos]

Pretty much with the "I refuse to limit my vocabulary based on societal bollocks" crowd on this one. "Being offended" is not some magical cure-all that gives one limitless rights to judge and ***** and demand things of other people. This is not to suggest I've no manners and/or capability to see what kind of situation I'm in and restrain myself when the situation calls for it. But if these people I wouldn't want to use the word "retard" or some such in front of were to hear me use it I wouldn't suddenly bend over apologizing and groveling either.

Stephen Fry sums it up quite nicely in this little clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqPcjm-X5GQ

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

It doesn't matter if they didn't literally mean homosexual, they are using the word for homosexual to mean something bad. It might not be as direct as using retard to mean stupid, but the attitude that there's something wrong with it has to still exist.

No, the word might have become to mean homosexuality through constant use of slang, but it originally means happy. I can understand if we are talking about a person saying "no homo", but in regards to the word "gay", since when did the homosexual community get to appropriate words that they like and claim that their definition of the word is the final meaning?

OP: You can say whatever you like, but I would highly recommend that you keep such comments to yourself in a workplace or school environment because it's best that you don't try to create conflict with coworkers or fellow students who are just trying to do their job/study for class.

EDIT:

Pretty much with the "I refuse to limit my vocabulary based on societal bollocks" crowd on this one. "Being offended" is not some magical cure-all that gives one limitless rights to judge and ***** and demand things of other people. This is not to suggest I've no manners and/or capability to see what kind of situation I'm in and restrain myself when the situation calls for it. But if these people I wouldn't want to use the word "retard" or some such in front of were to hear me use it I wouldn't suddenly bend over apologizing and groveling either.

Stephen Fry sums it up quite nicely in this little clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqPcjm-X5GQ

I couldn't agree more.

 

[LiquidGrape]

So many socially privileged people in this thread taking offense at the notion that their speech might have hurtful and distressing ramifications beyond their own personal comfort zones.

 

[Thaluikhain]

It doesn't matter if they didn't literally mean homosexual, they are using the word for homosexual to mean something bad. It might not be as direct as using retard to mean stupid, but the attitude that there's something wrong with it has to still exist.

No, the word might have become to mean homosexuality through constant use of slang, but it originally means happy. I can understand if we are talking about a person saying "no homo", but in regards to the word "gay", since when did the homosexual community get to appropriate words that they like and claim that their definition of the word is the final meaning?

They didn't, that's just how the word is used in the really real world.

When someone says "the gay community", do you seriously think they mean "the happy community"?

 

[DoomyMcDoom]

I'll keep using the term retarded, because I firstly, don't use it as an insult, or to refer to anyone except in jest. Secondly, people will get a telephone pole up their ass about pretty much anything, people are allowed to do that, taking offense is completely allowed, and I'm not going to stop people taking offense to things, but if they wanna cram their offense down my throat even when I'm not meaning it, I'm not going to respect those people as they offend me.

So no, I don't think being completely thoughtless about the use of words around people who will be obviously offended by the use of a term is a good thing, if someone just gets offended when I say that a situation or establishment is retarded, then they can go shove it.

 

[Dagda Mor]

The fact of the matter is, if you're insulting someone by saying they're like a certain group, you're also insulting that group. And fuck you if you think it's alright to constantly do that, especially with regards to the mentally alternative. This is a tired old point, but let's say that people started using 'gamers' like that. You wouldn't just be offended that they're using it in front of you, you'd think that's a fucking stupid thing to say in the first place. And if you don't think that would be the case, tell me that you don't mind the fact that pundits constantly do that already.

And to people who think that offending others is okay because 'life isn't easy': You certainly don't have to make it harder. Buy a thesaurus. If you're feeling petty enough to outright insult someone, there are many, many alternatives to 'retarded', 'gay', etc. that DON'T implicitly insult entire communities of people as well as your intended target.

 

[Vault101]

Nobel Prize winners, leading Mathematicians, Scientists, Writers, great artists and musicians - all of those people are highly intelligent (well, maybe not what counts as a "great" artist or musician these days - I mean, Beethoven? Genius. Bach? Genius. Skrillex? Not so much of one)

how do you know that?

I think it takes a certain amount of skill/talent to be able to produce music,

as for his songs, they do feel nedlessly abrasive and the novelty wears off after 5 minutes but I think there is some talent under there...aside from the wubs the melody/other parts of his songs are actuallly fairly decent

also you cant assume a musician to have no talent just because youd ont care for their genre/style

 

[Vault101]

To be fair no one wants to be retarded or gay so it is a perfectly valid thing to offend someone by calling them that.

......what?

I'm sure you'll find plenty of gay people actually like their lifestyle