Dota 2's automated mute system - Valve's most prominent stuff up

[Angelblaze]

I'd like to note that the same people your reporting in game on LoL are the same people judging your reports so...yeah.





It's equally as shitty.

 

[Combustion Kevin]

As for the artstyle, I have the complete opposite. I have no damn idea what's going on in teamfights whenever I play LoL, and the all the skins that break their characters theme are distracting. All the cosmetics in dota at least stay in the theme of the character, there's nothing like iBlitzcrank or his car skin. In a Dota team fight, I can tell what's going on, and I always know what's killed me, and most of the abilities match the characters colour scheme (Witch doctor spells are purple, Warlocks are red, Elder Titan's are teal, so on). Also if you didn't know, there's a window you can pop up that will tell you what did damage to you and how much.

I was gonna bring this up too, it seems that valve applied the same design policy here as they did making Team Fortress 2, as in that characters are immediately identifiable by their silhouette and theme, making them much more distinct from eachother.

 

[Vivi22]

As for your link, care to provide something that doesn't require everyone to make an account on that forum, actually own DOTA2, and log in with their Steam account in order to view it?

Well no, because having those credentials might actually make you qualified to talk about the issue in this thread.

It's the official Dota 2 developer forums, just by the by.

I'm just saying not everyone will want to jump through several hoops to see the evidence you're providing, or some won't be DOTA2 players.

As for the notion that someone needs to be a DOTA2 player in order to be able to discuss the merits and operation of an automated system handling communication bans, that's the second most absurd thing I've seen stated today. Not surprisingly you were the author of both statements.

Anyway, so I did take a look and I'm not sure why you thought that link would be proof of any problem.

For those who can't access it, the post he's linked to says the system is partially automated and partially manual. He doesn't specify what the threshold is for reports before the automated system kicks in, but he does say that it's high enough that less than 0.1% of people are actually being affected by it. And once you're in the automated system he seems to indicate that they keep track of valid reports from there manually from there.

So let's see, your evidence that the system is a huge problem and isn't working is a statement from someone, presumably involved with either the development or enforcement of the system, stating that there is a manual element to it and that statistically almost no one is actually affected by it because of the high threshold.

You're not exactly making your case here from what I can tell.

 

[ResonanceSD]

As for the artstyle, I have the complete opposite. I have no damn idea what's going on in teamfights whenever I play LoL, and the all the skins that break their characters theme are distracting. All the cosmetics in dota at least stay in the theme of the character, there's nothing like iBlitzcrank or his car skin. In a Dota team fight, I can tell what's going on, and I always know what's killed me, and most of the abilities match the characters colour scheme (Witch doctor spells are purple, Warlocks are red, Elder Titan's are teal, so on). Also if you didn't know, there's a window you can pop up that will tell you what did damage to you and how much.

I was gonna bring this up too, it seems that valve applied the same design policy here as they did making Team Fortress 2, as in that characters are immediately identifiable by their silhouette and theme, making them much more distinct from eachother.

But they improved on TF2 by having extremely strict rules about dress. Anyway, back on topic thanks.

 

[ResonanceSD]

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=409863

11 page thread filled with complaints from people getting muted without having actually done anything. As long as you can get muted by 4 russians on the other team because "lol cyka", the system is broken.

It actually worked a lot better before the mute thing started... Who's brilliant idea was it anyways to insert a system into a team game dependent on communication, where you STOP the communication?! If someone really is bothering you, the mute button has always been there.

Saw this on Dota 2 dev forum, sound familiar?

Most problematic i get is the SEA server breaking and the Aus server gets flooded with people with ok english.

Meanwhile, the match I just finished.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/190864278

 

[TheLastSeraphim]

This is the one time I'm going to praise LoL.
You know the tribunal system? Where real people judge reports? That shit WORKS bro.

Yeah I'm going to have to Severely disagree on that. The league Tribunal is 99.9% people that just mash the punish button and the other .01% actually take time to look over the actual case.

Its been shown time and time again in several forum threads where people did nothing but mash punish for 3 days worth of reviews straight and got perfect record with the tribunal's review system

The whole system of reporting is flawed in general, unless Valve or Riot hire people to look through EVERY case ( which in Leagues case is an ASS TON) the system will never work.

You cant have a machine do it since what happens if people report you for feeding out of spite for losing (I've been reported a few time for Harassment for completely rolling over the other team) Overall the system really needs an overhaul.

 

[runic knight]

So, a game where if you are bad, people who take the game too seriously will prevent you from playing, but if you are good people who take the game too seriously will prevent you from playing? Well, glad I will never play that game then.

Seriously, automated report system in a genre that represents the absolute worst kind of player-base outside the X-box live FPS community? I think value wants the game to die.

 

[ItsNotRudy]

I just don't understand why anyone would play DotA 2. Loved the first game, but I loved it 10 years or so ago, now. You can't take a 10 year old mod and not update the way it plays, because then it feels like a 10 year old mod. And it does. DotA 2 feels like shit and hasn't been cleaned up. It's just the old guard playing with their old friends, which is fine, but that's not the kind of practice I expect from Valve.

That's not true at all. I've never played the original Dota, I know that lots haven't. I've tried Dota 2 and LoL, and Dota feels much more refined and smooth. Why do you say it feels like shit?

In Warcraft 3, compared to modern game engines, your units were a fair bit more noticably linked to the terrain, and the animations were considerably less smooth, and you have considerably less control over your units. That's not a gripe, as such - Warcraft 3 is one of my favourite games of all time, but it's old, now, and I'm used to playing with engines that are a lot smoother, like SC2, and LoL.[/quote]

I don't quite know what you mean by clunky? As far as movement is concerned, LoL is clunkier as the characters move from one unseen 'tile' to another where Dota2 has nearly pixel precise movement. There is no wedging in between trees or anything of the sort in LoL. The paths are all straight lines you must adhere to. The Source engine itself is a lot better than LoL's engine, because LoL runs on Adobe Air, Flash's evil younger brother. Better framerate and graphics.
On an i7 and GTX580 LoL sometimes manages to cause stutter. Especially when they just released that Nocturne darkening crap Not sure why a black overlay skullfucks the engine so badly. I remember there was quite a stir on the forums about people lagging out and getting fps drops from it.

As for the artstyle, I have the complete opposite. I have no damn idea what's going on in teamfights whenever I play LoL, and the all the skins that break their characters theme are distracting. All the cosmetics in dota at least stay in the theme of the character, there's nothing like iBlitzcrank or his car skin. In a Dota team fight, I can tell what's going on, and I always know what's killed me, and most of the abilities match the characters colour scheme (Witch doctor spells are purple, Warlocks are red, Elder Titan's are teal, so on). Also if you didn't know, there's a window you can pop up that will tell you what did damage to you and how much.

This pretty much. LoL is a clusterfuck of colours. Funny how I was discussing this with my gf who casually plays LoL and now tries Dota with me complains of losing her mouse and character often in teamfights, as do I. Even after hundreds of games that still happens. And yes, the skins are confusing. After returning after many months, I couldnt even tell the new Blitz skin was trying to hook people, its just a small blue laser now lol

 

[Aircross]

These changes are the beginning of a series of ongoing efforts to make the gameplay experience for all members of the DOTA community as enjoyable as possible. We're going to be constantly monitoring and improving the system (and running many more experiments) as we go along, and we?re hopeful you?ll find these changes result in an improved experience in-game.

It's work in progress.
Dota 2 is sill under heavy development.
You don't participate in the development of a game expecting everything to run smoothly.

 

[Tanakh]

-snip-

Well, I do not fault them or expect to take anything from what I write. Honestly it's more just to see the errors and learn from them, the typing/saying them aloud is just a most likely futile endeavour, and getting them to consider learning from what I wrote is certainly not important to me.

 

[BloodSquirrel]

[quote="ResonanceSD"
Only thing that pudge deserves a report for is the gem slot being wasted. Dagon too good for you, eh?

Methinks the real problem here is that some people have a fundamental inability to understand what is or is not problematic behavior.

"Enjoy your loss"

The one quote we see from the LPQ player, and it's the kind of thing that Value WANTS TO STOP PEOPLE FROM DOING.

 

[Ryank1908]

I just don't understand why anyone would play DotA 2. Loved the first game, but I loved it 10 years or so ago, now. You can't take a 10 year old mod and not update the way it plays, because then it feels like a 10 year old mod. And it does. DotA 2 feels like shit and hasn't been cleaned up. It's just the old guard playing with their old friends, which is fine, but that's not the kind of practice I expect from Valve.

That's not true at all. I've never played the original Dota, I know that lots haven't. I've tried Dota 2 and LoL, and Dota feels much more refined and smooth. Why do you say it feels like shit?

In Warcraft 3, compared to modern game engines, your units were a fair bit more noticably linked to the terrain, and the animations were considerably less smooth, and you have considerably less control over your units. That's not a gripe, as such - Warcraft 3 is one of my favourite games of all time, but it's old, now, and I'm used to playing with engines that are a lot smoother, like SC2, and LoL.

I appreciate that DotA2 is trying to emulate the first game in almost all ways, but to me it feels so, so much more clunky. The art style is also, to me, obscures what's actually going on, so I can never actually tell what killed me. I also cannot fathom how you think DotA is smoother than LoL. I mean I respect your opinion, I just don't personally understand it.

Well for one, I like the turn animations (I think that's what you're talking about). It makes the game feel more natural and the movement feels less jerky, plus there's a bigger penalty for turning around to attack/cast an ability while running away. No turning animation feels very unnatural to me now. I didn't like it at first, but it grew on me as I played.

As for the artstyle, I have the complete opposite. I have no damn idea what's going on in teamfights whenever I play LoL, and the all the skins that break their characters theme are distracting. All the cosmetics in dota at least stay in the theme of the character, there's nothing like iBlitzcrank or his car skin. In a Dota team fight, I can tell what's going on, and I always know what's killed me, and most of the abilities match the characters colour scheme (Witch doctor spells are purple, Warlocks are red, Elder Titan's are teal, so on). Also if you didn't know, there's a window you can pop up that will tell you what did damage to you and how much.

There's nothing wrong with that. I guess there's a bigger degree of subjectivity to it than I thought. Personally, I like the 1-to-1 speed of LoL without the turn animations. For me, it feels a bit more intense, a bit more in-tune with exactly what I want to be doing.

As for the graphical style, it surprises me that people struggle with LoL. I know it's a lot more vibrant but for me that really helps me distinguish what's going on. This may well be because I'm colour-blind and I struggle with a lot of the colours that DotA uses - earthy colours like brown-greens, and darker shades like certain blue/purple shades. I find LoL uses a lot more contrast and stands out a lot more. I've never felt that, if a skill shot hits me in LoL, that it hasn't been my own fault, or that there wasn't something I could have done to escape it -- bar the few perfect trap shots. Particles always stand out distinctly for me, possibly because LoL uses a lot of bright primary colours that I don't have any colour-blindness issues with.

 

[ItsNotRudy]

As for the graphical style, it surprises me that people struggle with LoL. I know it's a lot more vibrant but for me that really helps me distinguish what's going on. This may well be because I'm colour-blind and I struggle with a lot of the colours that DotA uses - earthy colours like brown-greens, and darker shades like certain blue/purple shades. I find LoL uses a lot more contrast and stands out a lot more. I've never felt that, if a skill shot hits me in LoL, that it hasn't been my own fault, or that there wasn't something I could have done to escape it -- bar the few perfect trap shots. Particles always stand out distinctly for me, possibly because LoL uses a lot of bright primary colours that I don't have any colour-blindness issues with.

Im not quite sure what colourblindness is like, but your definition of contrast is kind of skewed.

You're saying the contrast on a map consisting of bright green, yellows, reds and purples, overlayed by skill effects that are also bright yellow, white, red and so on...

have more contrast than

bright colors overlaying a darkey brown, green, grey map.

con·trast [v. kuhn-trast, kon-trast; n. kon-trast]
the relative difference between light and dark areas

 

[ResonanceSD]

Only thing that pudge deserves a report for is the gem slot being wasted. Dagon too good for you, eh?

Methinks the real problem here is that some people have a fundamental inability to understand what is or is not problematic behavior.

"Enjoy your loss"

The one quote we see from the LPQ player, and it's the kind of thing that Value WANTS TO STOP PEOPLE FROM DOING.[/quote]

So why are they selling taunt items?

snipo

Stay on topic, thanks.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

snip

Just got a 168 hour comm ban for schooling a team of Russians with Juggernaut.


You can't stop the Juggernaut, but you can stop him speaking if he beats you, apparently.

Great job Valve ¬_¬

 

[LetalisK]

Okay, so I guess I'll ask this question here so I don't open an unnecessary thread. This thread actually inspired me to finally try DotA2, and it's actually kinda fun. Just doing bot battles right now to get the feel for things. So far I've played Crystal Maiden and Lich, enjoyed Lich a little bit more. Generally, I like ranged characters and will stick with fighting in a lane and trying to push it over doing any of the other stuff like trying to be a carry, ganker, etc. Any suggestions of characters I should try?

Oh, and fyi, been using http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/User%3aPigbuster/Hero_Difficulty as a guide to characters.

 

[ItsNotRudy]

snip

Just got a 168 hour comm ban for schooling a team of Russians with Juggernaut.


You can't stop the Juggernaut, but you can stop him speaking if he beats you, apparently.

Great job Valve ¬_¬

On what server do these things happen? The only ones I use are US-E/W and EUW, but regardless of stomping people, I've never seen this behaviour...

 

[Daystar Clarion]

snip

Just got a 168 hour comm ban for schooling a team of Russians with Juggernaut.


You can't stop the Juggernaut, but you can stop him speaking if he beats you, apparently.

Great job Valve ¬_¬

On what server do these things happen? The only ones I use are US-E/W and EUW, but regardless of stomping people, I've never seen this behaviour...

I only play on US East and EU West.

It's a bullshit automated system and I won't believe otherwise.

 

[ResonanceSD]

snip

Just got a 168 hour comm ban for schooling a team of Russians with Juggernaut.


You can't stop the Juggernaut, but you can stop him speaking if he beats you, apparently.

Great job Valve ¬_¬

HAHA, that's legit hilarious dude.

"HE BEAT US, LET'S REPORT HIM FOR SOMETHING".

I have 15+ spare keys if you want to start a smurf account.