Dragon Age Origins Lead Designer speaks out against ME3 Ending

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Starke

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Mar 6, 2008
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boag said:
Who says this? if its on the chat with ai kid, can you hook me up with a youtube link and time, I ask because im lazy.
Not as lazy as me. :p

But, yeah, it's in the Starchild conversation.

boag said:
We dont really know, EDI comments about this to some extent in the game.
Sorry, about what?
boag said:
Hyper-space said:
This is why we cannot have nice things, for we set up these absurd rules for video-games that only serve to permeate clichés and tired tropes, such as the Hollywood-esque notion that a movie (or in this case, Video-games) should only have happy-endings.
Having an option for a happy ending invalidates the option for a bittersweet one?
Honestly, I'm getting really sick of that particular straw man. I'm sure there is someone somewhere who's upset they didn't get a happy ending, but most of the people who are actually pissed off are upset that they got a stupid ending.
 

boag

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Starke said:
boag said:
Who says this? if its on the chat with ai kid, can you hook me up with a youtube link and time, I ask because im lazy.
Not as lazy as me. :p


But, yeah, it's in the Starchild conversation.

well i sure would appreaciate a youtube link, cause i dont want to read all the BS the Starchild says again. ;)

boag said:
We dont really know, EDI comments about this to some extent in the game.
Sorry, about what?
the physics in the ME universe working in a Different Universe, joker and EDI break the 4th wall a ton of times during their discussions with Shep.


boag said:
Hyper-space said:
This is why we cannot have nice things, for we set up these absurd rules for video-games that only serve to permeate clichés and tired tropes, such as the Hollywood-esque notion that a movie (or in this case, Video-games) should only have happy-endings.
Having an option for a happy ending invalidates the option for a bittersweet one?
Honestly, I'm getting really sick of that particular straw man. I'm sure there is someone somewhere who's upset they didn't get a happy ending, but most of the people who are actually pissed off are upset that they got a stupid ending.
I concur, The only thing I ever wanted was closure, as soon as they actually admitted that indoctrination was the original plan all along, I got some of it. I would totally love for DLC to expand on the choices ive made and how they affect the Galaxy, but the game ending itself and Biowares attitude have assured me that It was a mistake to buy anything they make on release date, therefore I will wait until its proven without the shadow of a doubt that the DLC isnt crap, and then maybe if I feel like it, ill put some money towards it.
 

Penguin_Factory

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End on a positive note. This is really important for video games...life in general is full of s****y stuff happening all the time. When I invest a hundred hours into a game I need to walk away feeling like a hero.
The game did end on a positive note, if you got one of the good endings. I keep seeing comments like this, as if people are pretending the bad endings are canonical for some reason.
 

userwhoquitthesite

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Hyper-space said:
This is why we cannot have nice things, for we set up these absurd rules for video-games that only serve to permeate clichés and tired tropes, such as the Hollywood-esque notion that a movie (or in this case, Video-games) should only have happy-endings.

On the other hand somebody playing an epic role-playing video-game trilogy is going to *expect* to be the hero and save the universe. That's why they are playing the game. When expectations don't match reality, disappointment is created.
This explains why DA:O was so goddamn stale and bland, OF COURSE WE HAVE TO HAVE AN EVIL DARK FORCE THAT THREATENS TO CONSUME THE LAND AND ONLY THE CHOSEN ONE CAN SAVE US.

Jesus balls, this is the stupidest thing I have ever read, its people like him that are the reason why 90% of all RPGs have derivative-as-shit stories and character archetypes.
It's like this: if you fail at the end, what was the point of playing? For instance, how many games have YOU played where if you die/lose the macguffin/etc throughout the level you LOSE... but then all the hard work is made moot because in the cutscene that follows, your character dies/loses the macguffin/etc? It cheapens the experience, and makes your actions as a player pointless.
That's not to say it NEVER works. Red Dead Redemption had one of the best endings I've seen in a videogame, and
you die at the end
. but there, it works, because john marston has ACHIEVED something. There will be repercussions from his actions. In fact, the ending's immediate impact can be felt as the player assumes the role of his son, and a formerly meek child becomes a coldblooded murderer. Marston has achieved personal redemption, even if he has not been redeemed in the eyes of authority. Shepard, on the other hand, has been the tool of the player to shape an entire galaxy. he sets things in motion, but when his game ends, nothing comes of it. The players journey through the series is ultimately for nothing. I'm told that some fans have adopted a theory that the player's inability to save the day at the end comes from Shepard being mind-controlled, which in my opinion would save that particular facet of the problems people have been listing. It makes the tragedy of having all your hard work have a reason in the grand scheme of things, as opposed to the idea that poor design or planning has robbed you of the chance. Personally, I don't really care about the series, as I have only played the first, and don't want to play the others, but I would be fine if the series ending on a sad note, and I think there are many who are mature enough to accept that not everything needs a happy ending. But when it happens, we want a REASON it has to. Marston can't live peacefully on his farm because he was never going to be able to, he only had a chance to make up for his own misdeeds before the hammer fell. There is no reason, on the other hand that my character in oblivion should be stupid enough to fall for a lich's obvious trap because the lich says he's sorry.
Do you see the distinction? We MADE the story happen. Someone else built the story, but they aren't showing it to us, we making the events unfold ourselves. We want to be part of it.

That said, even as a non-fanboy, some of the technical issues about the ending were just appalling. So if someone hates the ending because of the details (like the problems with the timeline) I have to agree wholeheartedly. if they just hate it because everything goes tits-up for everyone, well, that i agree with you on, its only personal taste and therefore unquantifiable
 

Lillowh

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endtherapture said:
DE ending doesn't work in ME3, just like a DE ending would not work in Lord of the Rings, they're completely different types of fiction.
How about the ME3 Ending for LOTR?

Yeah, I didn't think so...
 

llew

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Merrick_HLC said:
I don't agree that the game has to end happily.
But it does have to have a conclusion, a sense of closure, a feeling your activities mattered.

Not just "And it ends. and no you don't get to find out anything about what happened to anyone. This is over. Go home"

To use the obvious ME3 example.

SPOILERS
I played Paragon pretty much the whole series
If ME3 had ended with Shepard and Anderson dying on the citadel as the Catalyst went off and destroyed the Reapers and then a montage of stuff like Fallout games did, saying 'this happened to this person' 'this place had this happen'. Then I'd be overjoyed with the game as a whole and still want to play through to see other endings. Not disappointed and siding with people protesting it even if I don't protest it myself.
this, this a million times, why did they not forsee that this would have been a better ending than the crap we were given? (still going yo play it a hundred or so times until i get bored)
 

Rad Party God

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Feb 23, 2010
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While I agree with this guy, I don't think it necessarily needs a happy ending, heck, why not break the tropes?, make the "happy ending" the bad ending with something in the line of being indoctrinated and think everything is fine and think the Reapers are some kind of ancient saviors or something and make the "sad/bad ending" be the real happy/good ending by showing you that there needed to be some sacrifices for the better of the entire galaxy.

I still don't buy the "artistic liberties" excuse and I still think they perfectly knew what they were getting into and sell us some DLC afterwards.
 

Simeon Ivanov

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I don't see why we can't have a happy ending. Some people like that, me included. My ideal ending would be one where you defeat the Reapers, but there a lot of casualties. Showing Palaven, Thessia and other planets ruined, flashbacks of all the people you've lost (Mordin, Legion, Ash/Kaidan, etc.) but end with something like Shepard (since it's the "happy" ending, let's say he's alive) and his L.I. in some house somewhere. Maybe Garrus, Wrex and Joker pay a visit and they joke about the old times, reminding the player of the events that transpired in all three games. Something to give you a sense of accomplishment, ya know?

Of course, I would also like an ending where the Reapers destroy everything (Hey, why not?).

If not those two, at least give us some info about what happened after ME3. What happened to Garrus, Tali and the rest of the bunch we all know and love.