Dragon Age Origins Lead Designer speaks out against ME3 Ending

[TheRandomNPC]

I'm not saying Mass Effect 3 should just have a happy ending I just wanted to be able to get a happy ending. I would do so much if I could just get a happy ending because I solved a bunch of major problems and for what I just wish I could get a happy ending some how.

 

[Von Strimmer]

Sounds more like a rushed stock photo than anything else. I'm going to hold out until Bioware gives us some answers (god help them if they try to make you pay for an ending), and hopefully then some things will become clear. For now its just one bit WTF?!?! Gears 3 had a better ending than this!

Though it doesn't exactly seem to make things feel better. "Don't worry, it didn't mean anything, it was just laziness!"

And yes...I've made the Gears of War 3 'had a better ending' argument too.

Just laziness is even worse imo. I think they went for the artsy approach, got yelled at when the script leaked. Then they had to rush an ending out of their arses, if the indoctrination theory proves true then it will be one of the greatest story telling feats done in any medium... For people with internet connection

 

[Mr Companion]

This is why we cannot have nice things, for we set up these absurd rules for video-games that only serve to permeate clichés and tired tropes, such as the Hollywood-esque notion that a movie (or in this case, Video-games) should only have happy-endings.

On the other hand somebody playing an epic role-playing video-game trilogy is going to *expect* to be the hero and save the universe. That's why they are playing the game. When expectations don't match reality, disappointment is created.

This explains why DA:O was so goddamn stale and bland, OF COURSE WE HAVE TO HAVE AN EVIL DARK FORCE THAT THREATENS TO CONSUME THE LAND AND ONLY THE CHOSEN ONE CAN SAVE US.

Jesus balls, this is the stupidest thing I have ever read, its people like him that are the reason why 90% of all RPGs have derivative-as-shit stories and character archetypes.

Disclaimer: I haven't played ME3 but I played 1 and 2 plus I saw the ending of 3 on youtube and
I only mention this so you understand I am not biased on this subject and couldn't care less. Nevertheless...

I would agree with you but this is a role playing game where choice matters. If the player tries their damnedest to make things right then it should at least have some Effect, possibly a Mass one, on how optimal the outcome is. The ending of a series which players have spent tons of time and money on is not the place to make an artistic statement about man's ineffectual attempts to improve his surroundings.

This message worked in From Dust because it was a cynical message also supported by the game mechanics. What do the mechanics of Mass Effect suggest? That you are a futuristic prophet capable of solving problems with smart decision making and combat expertise. Your skill and insight is going to pave way to a new age. Additionally up until this point even the story supported this theme, your name is Shepherd because you are a messianic figure leading all species in the galaxy to peace. Often if your actions are positive they have a positive effect on the outcome especially in ME2 where the very lives of your comrades depends upon your decision making and support.

I agree more games and movies need to have less idealistic endings but Mass Effect wasn't the place to do it. Anyway if the ending wanted to be artsy it should have included a strong (non sickening) message/well written canonical story/tough decisions that provide no obvious moral high ground/emotionally engaging dialogue prior to Shepherds death/unambiguous examples of your Effect on the species you interacted with, possibly Effects you were not intending thus exemplifying an uncontrollable butterfly Effect of ALL our actions whether we perceive them or not keeping in theme with the overall gameplay mechanics of the series and providing a message for which we could accept an unhappy ending.

As it is the fans dumb dumb enough to care just got a meaningless kick in the teeth. Good thing Spore taught me not to care about products made by businessmen.

 

[Something Amyss]

I don't want a happy ending. I just want an ending that befits the series and offers closure.

 

[Smiley Face]

This is why we cannot have nice things, for we set up these absurd rules for video-games that only serve to permeate clichés and tired tropes, such as the Hollywood-esque notion that a movie (or in this case, Video-games) should only have happy-endings.

On the other hand somebody playing an epic role-playing video-game trilogy is going to *expect* to be the hero and save the universe. That's why they are playing the game. When expectations don't match reality, disappointment is created.

This explains why DA:O was so goddamn stale and bland, OF COURSE WE HAVE TO HAVE AN EVIL DARK FORCE THAT THREATENS TO CONSUME THE LAND AND ONLY THE CHOSEN ONE CAN SAVE US.

Jesus balls, this is the stupidest thing I have ever read, its people like him that are the reason why 90% of all RPGs have derivative-as-shit stories and character archetypes.

That's not so much the problem. The problem is that Mass Effect looked like it was going to go for that typical happy ending - and then it didn't. I'd been fine with anything else, but a rapid and dramatic change of tone in the last minutes of the 3rd game is poor form, even if your intention is to shake things up.

 

[SajuukKhar]

That's not so much the problem. The problem is that Mass Effect looked like it was going to go for that typical happy ending - and then it didn't. I'd been fine with anything else, but a rapid and dramatic change of tone in the last minutes of the 3rd game is poor form, even if your intention is to shake things up.

How is a game series that was stated by the game devs to be going from dark to darker to even more dark setting up for a happy ending?

 

[Soviet Heavy]

That's not so much the problem. The problem is that Mass Effect looked like it was going to go for that typical happy ending - and then it didn't. I'd been fine with anything else, but a rapid and dramatic change of tone in the last minutes of the 3rd game is poor form, even if your intention is to shake things up.

How is a game series that was stated by the game devs to be going from dark to darker to even more dark setting up for a happy ending?

Umm, they said that Mass Effect 3 was happier than the last one.
http://www.gamesthirst.com/2010/06/02/mass-effect-3-will-be-lighter-than-mass-effect-2/

Try harder next time.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Umm, they said that Mass Effect 3 was happier than the last one.
http://www.gamesthirst.com/2010/06/02/mass-effect-3-will-be-lighter-than-mass-effect-2/

Try harder next time.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Mass-Effect-3-Has-New-Game-Mode-Darker-Story-194829.shtml
After hearing quite a lot of details about practically everything concerning the game, including its combat or gameplay, Mass Effect 3 executive producer Casey Hudson shares a few more details about the story and how it will have a darker tone than in the first two games.

Try harder next time

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Umm, they said that Mass Effect 3 was happier than the last one.
http://www.gamesthirst.com/2010/06/02/mass-effect-3-will-be-lighter-than-mass-effect-2/

Try harder next time.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Mass-Effect-3-Has-New-Game-Mode-Darker-Story-194829.shtml
After hearing quite a lot of details about practically everything concerning the game, including its combat or gameplay, Mass Effect 3 executive producer Casey Hudson shares a few more details about the story and how it will have a darker tone than in the first two games.

Try harder next time

I think you need to calm down and stop questioning every other person's idea on how the game should have ended.

 

[Kahunaburger]

I completely disagree.

The fact that the player is under the allusion that their choices actually matter is what makes the stark realisation that they don't are playing a Bioware game all the more poignant.

If the story had been hammering your insignificance since day one then the ending has no impact or merit. It's just a sad ending.

I do agree that there's something that can be done with the "your choices are recognized by the storyline, but your character is unable to change the course of history in a meaningful fashion." I think Witcher games are generally a good execution of this concept, because they create a feeling of powerlessness without making it seem like the writers just didn't feel like fully exploring a branching storyline.

 

[SajuukKhar]

I think you need to calm down and stop questioning every other person's idea on how the game should have ended.

I have no problem with them thinking it should have ended differently, I do however find them saying "it didn't fit with the game" when it did to be terrible.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

I think you need to calm down and stop questioning every other person's idea on how the game should have ended.

I have no problem with them thinking it should have ended differently, I do however find them saying "it didn't fit with the game" when it did to be terrible.

If you have no problem with them then why do you insist on questioning them every time they bring it up? It seems oddly specific that you would focus entirely on one particular type of disagreement.

 

[AD-Stu]

I was reading another post, and the guy posted an image of the Zorya skybox background, and it was identical to the ending scene skybox everyone was looking up at, same dual planets same sizes and everything, even the fauna represented on the planet is identical to Zorya. They don't say it but...either its another of the MASSIVE botches that the ending has (along with disappearing crew, teleportation, general desertion and abandonment, bad voice acting) or they INTENDED for the Normandy to be crash landed on an industrial mining world dominated by the Blue Suns.

Sounds more like a rushed stock photo than anything else. I'm going to hold out until Bioware gives us some answers (god help them if they try to make you pay for an ending), and hopefully then some things will become clear. For now its just one bit WTF?!?! Gears 3 had a better ending than this!

I tend to agree - I think it's dangerous to read too much into this stuff, because it's impossible to tell when something has been included as a deliberate visual cue, and when assets are just being recycled for convenience.

Much the same goes for the "Shepard must be on Earth in the final surviving scene, because concrete" discussion. Which is more likely - Shepard surviving a fall from orbit (without even a functioning suit, let alone a helmet) or artists getting lazy/taking licence? It's possible these decisions were made deliberately and they do have some meaning, but it's impossible to tell which is which with the current information.

 

[SajuukKhar]

I think you need to calm down and stop questioning every other person's idea on how the game should have ended.

I have no problem with them thinking it should have ended differently, I do however find them saying "it didn't fit with the game" when it did to be terrible.

If you have no problem with them then why do you insist on questioning them every time they bring it up? It seems oddly specific that you would focus entirely on one particular type of disagreement.

Unfortunately the forums are filled with repeat threads of the same topic.

If there were other things to discuss I would. I am in a Skyrim thread right now also but the ME threads keep zapping everything away.

 

[GiantRaven]

I completely disagree.

The fact that the player is under the allusion that their choices actually matter is what makes the stark realisation that they don't all the more poignant.

If the story had been hammering your insignificance since day one then the ending has no impact or merit. It's just a sad ending.

Please, that's just Bioware taking the easy way out. They had the chance to do something truly special here; an ending to a trilogy that bases itself on choices that reach back up to three games ago. Instead they ruined it completely and we get an inspired subversion to expectations.

Urgh. There was so much potential here. I guess I'll just have to go back to ranting about how awesome Alpha Protocol's morphing ending was.