Dragon Age: Origins: Why Put This Shit In?

[Gildan Bladeborn]

My only complaint with that section has less to do with any grind and more to do with my inventory space being too small - I had to leave the entire complex and come back after the rather memorable fight with

Spoiler

a freaking DRAGON!

because I was completely out of inventory space. That was mostly my fault for carting around things I didn't need "just in case" when I could have just stashed them though.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

There is the fact that some of the content, in particular the golem (who was basically HK-47 in stone), was cut in order to bilk money out of the people who would do the right thing and buy the game, as opposed to those who pirate it.

Except that Stone Prisoner is given away free with the game purchase?

On Xbox360, the Stone Prisoner was an extra only if you paid the extra money for the limited edition.

 

[S00N3R FR3AK]

Ummm, so why play RPG? RPGs are mostly known for their level grinding. I don't think there would ever be an RPG which can generate the possibilities of 1000 types of enemies.

Hmm well with the Borderlands gun-creating engine, it could be very possible to have a game that has randomly generated baddies.

That would be totally awesome.

So its the same baddie over and over again he just has a new skin? STO will have this. Their generator will create planets and npcs but its not like each one will act differently. Just look different.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

Ummm, so why play RPG? RPGs are mostly known for their level grinding. I don't think there would ever be an RPG which can generate the possibilities of 1000 types of enemies.

Hmm well with the Borderlands gun-creating engine, it could be very possible to have a game that has randomly generated baddies.

That would be totally awesome.

So its the same baddie over and over again he just has a new skin?.

Not neccessarily, they could have different HP, attacks, powers, AI, aggresion levels... I may be thinking too far ahead but that would be a fun game.

 

[Kinghoza]

There is the fact that some of the content, in particular the golem (who was basically HK-47 in stone), was cut in order to bilk money out of the people who would do the right thing and buy the game, as opposed to those who pirate it.

Except that Stone Prisoner is given away free with the game purchase?

On Xbox360, the Stone Prisoner was an extra only if you paid the extra money for the limited edition.

Yeah kinda sad to see them selling DLC that was already built in game when it was released.

 

[TsunamiWombat]

I expected more out of Bioware than this. Who had the idea to put it in?

BioWare is dead, there is only EA now, I will explain why.

Dragon Age sucks on many levels, all of which would be unthinkable in any pre-EA BioWare game:-

There is the blatant Lord of the Rings rip off opening.

There is the Dead or Alive: Extreme Beach Volleyball gift giving minigame.

There is, as you said, endless corridors and rooms of generic badies dropping the same generic loot.

There is the fact that when you complete the game it doesn't fire you back to the start, so you can have a play through with your character, but back by about 5 minutes, meaning that if you want to continue with your character you need to buy some DLC from EA.

There is the fact that some of the content, in particular the golem (who was basically HK-47 in stone), was cut in order to bilk money out of the people who would do the right thing and buy the game, as opposed to those who pirate it.

There is the mountains and mountains of bugs this game has. BioWare used to have the best QA I can recollect in a game, but this one blows that apart. Waiting for 10 minutes after enemies die before they register as dead, leaving me standing there, gets old fast. Audio missing from certain scenes ruin immersion.

Man, remind me to stay away from the aweful game you played!

~plays Dragon Age and it is awesome~ What was it called again? I didn't hear you the first time I was busy SAVING THE FUCKING WORLD.

As for all these complaints about them cutting game content to make DLC, the Escapist has covered this. What you don't get is they keep making content AFTER the final cut of the game is made. At one point or another, they say NO MORE NEW CONTENT and stick to bug hunting and polish- it's a legitimate and standardized business practice. The Development Team, which is left with sit-on-it's-hands time, keeps making content to be released. They just happened to make it in time for them to go gold and tacked it on at the end.

Ungrateful bastiges...

 

[Amnestic]

There is the fact that some of the content, in particular the golem (who was basically HK-47 in stone), was cut in order to bilk money out of the people who would do the right thing and buy the game, as opposed to those who pirate it.

Except that Stone Prisoner is given away free with the game purchase?

On Xbox360, the Stone Prisoner was an extra only if you paid the extra money for the limited edition.

I would then have to inquire why you would buy a Bioware RPG on a console.

That's like buying TF2 on the 360 rather than the PC.

 

[Russian_Assassin]

I mean I've been giving gifts to this rogue to beef up his approval of me then he betrays me in a RANDOM ENCOUNTER? whereas the guy I've been acting like a total ass to sticks with me till the end?

Well, Zevran was trying to kill you after all... Although I heard that if he has a high aproval towards you he would not betray you.

Anyways, the part you mention wasn't that bad for me, since I really felt I was fighting and eradicating a whole cult (which is exactly what I was doing) and in the end I got to fight a fucking dragon, which was EPIC! Well, different people different tastes I suppose.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

There is the fact that some of the content, in particular the golem (who was basically HK-47 in stone), was cut in order to bilk money out of the people who would do the right thing and buy the game, as opposed to those who pirate it.

Except that Stone Prisoner is given away free with the game purchase?

On Xbox360, the Stone Prisoner was an extra only if you paid the extra money for the limited edition.

I would then have to inquire why you would buy a Bioware RPG on a console.

That's like buying TF2 on the 360 rather than the PC.

I can't bear to use a keyboard and mouse to play games. Without a controller I am buggered (figuratively speaking of course).

 

[Phoenix Arrow]

The thing that bothers me about it is that whenever I'm trying to unlock something or travel between cities, it makes me fight stuff. I don't want to. I just want to get on with what I was doing ffs. It killed the flow. I'd start getting into it like "hmm, so I have to go to x so I can do y which will let me do z." But then the game goes "NO! ASSASSINS! KNIGHTS!" and there's no run the fuck away from an impossible fight option. So last time I played it, I lost an hours worth of questing.

 

[Amnestic]

I can't bear to use a keyboard and mouse to play games. Without a controller I am buggered (figuratively speaking of course).

I suppose...I guess...still, it's just better on the PC. Mods, toolset, overhead view, better interface, free DLC...

Maybe it's because I grew up watching Gorion die, saving the Sword Coast and chasing after Irenicus, but I find keyboards so natural it's actually weird to pick up gamepads at times.

So last time I played it, I lost an hours worth of questing.

Quick Save
Quick Load
Auto Save
You should be making regular saves every 30 minutes or so or before big encounters anyway.

This should be nothing new. The game even tells you to make use of the Quick Save function on some of the loading screens.

 

[Kikosemmek]

To answer to a few of you:

1. No, not every RPG is full of grind. Those are MMO's and shitty RPG's. I'm not an MMO guy precisely because I despise grind. I play RPG's for the awesome interactive stories and character escapism that combine with a heavily tactical combat system. That's more or less my cup of tea when it comes to RPG's, and that's been promoted by Bioware. The only RPG's I ever played, except for the Diablos, are Bioware RPG's- the Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale and Planescape: Torment games. Those RPG's were nothing short of fucking awesome and they had zero grind. I must admit that I had my reservations about DA:O because I played Neverwinter Nights and it fucking sucked. I didn't know if Bioware would make more great RPG's as they were previously known for, but when DA:O was branded as the spiritual successor of Baldur's Gate, I have to say that I did get optimistic, and my expectations did rise.

2. What I was expecting instead of the grind was the sense of original exploration. The temple I'm referring to is more or less a series of rooms and hallways populated by the same groups of enemies. This situation is acceptable only if there weren't that many rooms and hallways, or if the rooms were varied- that they would have dungeon mechanics in them that would make this dungeon feel more like what a dungeon should be, rather than a generic gauntlet. I'm talking about creative traps, riddling spirits, mini-boss fights in trapped pits, and a sense of gradation, that as you delve deeper and deeper into the dungeon, the atmosphere changes, and it gets more and more eerie, twisted, devilish, etc. This is important because it makes dungeon exploration feel worthwhile, so you don't get bored playing the game (and thus defeat the purpose of playing a game). The great RPG's I referred to had that. The temple I'm talking about was controlled by fanatic cultists- you can go wild with creative options on what kind of shit they'd be pulling in some of those rooms. What I got was repetitive gameplay, and maybe a single trip-wire in an odd corridor. That, frankly, is bullshit. I expect much more out of the company that made Baldur's Gate.

The answer isn't a random enemies generator, but creative content and meaningful encounters. By the time I reached the end of the temple in DA:O, I felt like I was just wading through mud that was merely delaying the storyline from advancing. This is what should have been engaging combat.

3. My dog's name is Socrates.

 

[Phoenix Arrow]

So last time I played it, I lost an hours worth of questing.

Quick Save
Quick Load
Auto Save
You should be making regular saves every 30 minutes or so or before big encounters anyway.

This should be nothing new. The game even tells you to make use of the Quick Save function on some of the loading screens.

I'm sorry if I don't expect to be set upon by 20 knights, creating a no hope battle in the middle of a city?

1. No, not every RPG is full of grind. Those are MMO's and shitty RPG's. I'm not an MMO guy precisely because I despise grind.

Off topic, but I like MMO's. FFXI at least. I just hate grind. I don't know how it is on other MMOs, but on FFXI, the currency has been fucked over by RMT so the only way to effectively make money is to kill 6 billion monsters and sell their stuff. I usually made about 15k an hour or so, but when you're saving buy gear that cost up to a million gil... My subscription ran out, I'd have renewed it but I'd just recently ran out of gil and I couldn't be bothered. I'll hit the ground running when FFXIV comes out.

 

[Gontear]

I mean I've been giving gifts to this rogue to beef up his approval of me then he betrays me in a RANDOM ENCOUNTER? whereas the guy I've been acting like a total ass to sticks with me till the end?

Well, Zevran was trying to kill you after all... Although I heard that if he has a high aproval towards you he would not betray you.

Anyways, the part you mention wasn't that bad for me, since I really felt I was fighting and eradicating a whole cult (which is exactly what I was doing) and in the end I got to fight a fucking dragon, which was EPIC! Well, different people different tastes I suppose.

Well, it really wasn't that bad but, I was a mage and he was assigned to shatter the mobs I freeze lol. Boy this game kicked my ass many times...

 

[cuddly_tomato]

BioWare is dead, there is only EA now, I will explain why.

This post is fantastic!

Yes, I know.

I disagree with much of what you said, but I will respect your views because I am not a screaming fanboy.

Thank you. I understand why others may well like this game. But I, personally, found it severely lacking compared to BioWares previous work, and I do ascribe a lot of these issues to EAs involvement (the DLC money bilking being chief among them).

For me, this is the deal killer. I will not be purchasing anything more from BioWare.

 

[Galad]

I'm talking about creative traps, riddling spirits, mini-boss fights in trapped pits, and a sense of gradation, that as you delve deeper and deeper into the dungeon, the atmosphere changes, and it gets more and more eerie, twisted, devilish, etc.

I'm with you on this, sadly, the part of the staff responsible for the dungeon crawling must've been busy with err playtesting it? Or rather, the basic dungeon crawl design must've been a less important piece of work than the graphics or the story, pushed aside. Don't get me wrong, I loved both the graphics and the writing, now that you mention it though, I see what we could've had in terms of dungeon crawling, as opposed to what we got. (though it would probably still get old on the third playthrough, perhaps) My advise would be to stick around, imho the challenging boss fights more than make up for the repetitive "ordinary" fights.

By the time I reached the end of the temple in DA:O, I felt like I was just wading through mud that was merely delaying the storyline from advancing.

I felt that way in the last part of the game, when the supposed bulk of the darkspawn horde would consist of

- the 2 brown colored generals (ohh, challenge..well, not really, if you deploy the armies, but still..)

- the 2 dozen or whatever, yellow-colored tough baddies

- hundreds of LEVEL ZERO darkspawn that get killed from one hit of whoever character from my party you'd pick, but due to their massive amount it takes a second or two until the game registers them as dead, after the hit is landed. Why weren't most of them level 10? That was irritating much >_>

 

[DoW Lowen]

I do not recall that temple leading to another temple of grinding. I do however remember the temple leading to another temple that had a couple of interesting trials, so I don't know which game you played.

I was referring to the temple in Haven, but I'm trying to keep spoilers to a minimum. I still like the game- the storyline is engrossing, but getting it advanced is a boring job and a half.

@captainwillies: party of about level 10ish. Arl Eamon's main branch is what I started following after the game got rolling. I did get two Drakes in one room, but that was it. Every now and then there was an ash wraith, as well, but they were all very predictable. But yeah, it was just cultist after cultist after cultist. It got very boring.

Yeah I did the sacred ashes about 3rd after the circle of magi and the the arl eamon quest plus the character quest I was about level 16 and they had me walk into a room thinking i was just a few melee cultist then these rogue assassins popped out and owned me.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

Since the op said that Baldur's Gate was never like this, I figured I'd make a rundown on some of the major plotpoints in the story of Baldur's Gate and their accompanying areas:

Spoiler

You survive an ambush and have to walk through 4 or 5 generic woodland/country road areas to reach a town where Kobolds have taken over the mine. The mine itself is 3 levels of pure kobold-grinding. Your party slays upwards of a hundred kobolds, this is accomplished by being attacked by kobolds in corridors and being attacked by kobolds in rooms. Eventually you reach the lower level, where a boss awaits you.

So, the kobolds had ties to some bandits. Thus, you set out to find the bandits, and have to walk through 3-4 woodland areas. As you walk through these areas you have to kill groups of bandits that lay in wait for your intrepid party. Eventually, you either get taken to the bandit camp or you find out its' position. There, a boss battle starts with the leaders of the bandits.

The bandits had a camp in a mine in another set of woods apparently. So off you go through another 4 woodland areas, being attacked by various creatures as you go. Most of these are spiders or wyverns. The mine itself is 4 or 5 levels deep, and on your way down you fight bandits in mine corridors and rooms(notice how this is not the same mine as the one the kobolds where in, although they look pretty much alike). At the end, a bad wizard challenges you to a boss fight.

You now get to enter Baldur's Gate! Sweet! After running about the city for a while, you eventually assault the headquarters of the evil organisation. This is done by a series of encounters, several for each level of the house, and an eventual boss fight against the organisations leaders.

Turns out the Big Baddy was not there, head out to Candlekeep! But to get out of it, you have to escape through the catacombs, that are shock full with undeads and dopplegangers. You do, eventually, and rush out to save some important people in Baldur's Gate. You arrive just in time to save them and foil the Big Baddys plans. However, he escapes and you have to follow him through a maze full of monsters and traps into the ruins beneath the city. There, not only one, but two Boss Fights await you before you can see the end game cinematic.

Disclaimer: It was a while since I played the original Baldur's Gate and I might have missed a few areas or important plot locations. There are also a lot of side-areas where you can dungeon crawl just for the fun of it (Firewine Bridge).

Obviously, as seen by my breakdown of Baldur's Gate, it did not consist of encountering similar mobs in similar areas at regular intervalls. It is much more varied than Dragon Age. Even Icewind Dale, a game that only consisted of dungeon crawling and encountering the same mobs for a set number of levels was more varied than this pile of refuse that is Dragon Age.

Sarcasm aside I respect your opinion, but for all points and purposes Dragon Age is a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate.