What I meant was it seemed like decisions carried more weight one way or another, depending on what you chose. Sometimes you could end a questline by making a decision that kills someone important, or keep it going if you don't.
And with my two playthroughs now, I used the same import from Origins. I did this so I could watch for differences in choices I made specifically in DA2, keeping Origins things constant.
Their impact grows slowly from the start of the game until the end of the second act. Their outbreak of fighting wasn't all too sudden either. Tensions were clearly on the rise for some time. Need I mention Patrice? (Loved it when she got shot though, priceless moment).
So why complain about it then? That is the way they chose for you to become champion. Defeating the Arishok and forcing the qunari to leave Kirkwall. They could have chosen many other ways yes, but that is what they chose. Just like the Warden, or Shepard in Mass Effect, there are so many ways they can make the character famous, so why does it matter so much how they do that?
The tensions were entirely on the city's side. Qunari side went from "annoyed at the city and the populace" to "murderous rampage" in the space of one cutscene. Arishok just says "enough" and conquers the city. After twiddling his thumbs for 4 years, only doing some minor diplomacy here and there. I fully understand and support him, but the way game handles it is quite underwhelming.
As for the sidequests and champions? The entire problem is that nothing you do matters (outside the "quest complete" scene). You're a commoner and you do fetch quests. Boom, you're a noble and you're still doing fetch quests. Boom, you're The Champion and you're doing the exact same quests you were doing the last 6 years in the exact same areas. There's no progression over the 7 years - story or otherwise - that's the problem I have with it.
Hell, that one guy has been waiting for an audience in the Keep for 6 years. Poor bastard.
I am not a conventional player myself, I always try different things even if they look horrible to begin with. But you ahve to adapt.
With my rogue, I made him and Isabela very good at offensive rogue abilities as well as disruptive tactics, and I always brought along Anders as a healer/support mage and Merrill as an offensive mage. Work out the tactics sets right and any setup can work for you. This worked for me tremendously well after I worked out the kinks.
The tensions were entirely on the city's side. Qunari side went from "annoyed at the city and the populace" to "murderous rampage" in the space of one cutscene. Arishok just says "enough" and conquers the city. After twiddling his thumbs for 4 years, only doing some minor diplomacy here and there. I fully understand and support him, but the way game handles it is quite underwhelming.
As for the sidequests and champions? The entire problem is that nothing you do matters (outside the "quest complete" scene). You're a commoner and you do fetch quests. Boom, you're a noble and you're still doing fetch quests. Boom, you're The Champion and you're doing the exact same quests you were doing the last 6 years in the exact same areas. There's no progression over the 7 years - story or otherwise - that's the problem I have with it.
Hell, that one guy has been waiting for an audience in the Keep for 6 years. Poor bastard.
I wouldn't call it a murderous rampage. They were out to make a point, not just kill things for the fun of it. Merciless as they seemed, they followed the Qun, and the Arishok, still. And seeing as most are warriors (probably all of em really), I would expect them to be brutally efficient in combat.
Nor would I call it underwhelming. It's a slowing growing tension, than involves you mostly from the beginning. And being a resident of Kirkwall, I think that is also enough reason to involve your character.
Many of the sidequests don't matter to the main plot directly, somewhat. They have ties to the underlying theme of it all, but they are still sidequests so you can't expect so much from them. Anything involving a templar-mage controversy though I found interesting enough for my time. There is plenty of progression, it just doesn't mean it's all going to be dandy in the end. The story is about the chantry going to hell in all of Thedas, you can't expect it all to be nice just because of your involvement.
That guy just never asked for admittance either, his own fault! I guess he has stage fright.
I am not a conventional player myself, I always try different things even if they look horrible to begin with. But you ahve to adapt.
With my rogue, I made him and Isabela very good at offensive rogue abilities as well as disruptive tactics, and I always brought along Anders as a healer/support mage and Merrill as an offensive mage. Work out the tactics sets right and any setup can work for you. This worked for me tremendously well after I worked out the kinks.
I have used Isabella, I have used every companion. I prefer to stick to my choices and I prefer not to have the game punish me accordingly. That's just lame storytelling. It's telegraphed poorly and wrought arbitrarily. I lost a lot of respect for the game coming out of the deep roads. The boss battles were stupid: big boss, lots of health, your talents are largely useless, random arbirtrary heavy attacks, constant stun, and then spawning of more mobs (like the dragonlings). I didn't care for that at all.
Then let me say it again, you are just making poor choices in tactics and companions. I did fine in the areas you describe. Sounds mostly like you are getting worked up over a bad decision of yours and looking for somewhere else to place the blame.
Not really, my character is a rogue so my party choices are a bit more limited in the deep roads as Varric, another rogue, has to accompany me. Therefore there are two other slots, one of which has to be a tank (aveline). The last spot would either have to be Anders Bethany or Merill and only Bethany has the proper medical spells. I could have specced Anders or Merrill accordingly but that would have been a poor choice (and i wouldn't have known ahead of time that Bethany was to die) since they are clearly built differently; Merrill is a blood mage and her bonus talent tree is already unlocked to begin with, while Anders is specced aggressively. It's poor game design because you cannot plan your companions' build accordingly ahead of time. Whether this will affect my gameplay subsequently remains to be seen but since i've yet to meet a specific healer companion (like Wynn from DAO) it's a weak piece of game design, and contrived storytelling, to just arbitrarily kill your sister just because she's there. It's also badly done.
Anders is the dedicated healer companion, about half his personal tree is about healing.
Deep Roads: Even if you don't take Bethany or Carver with you, or configure the party so the sibling survives the expedition, the outcome will be the same. After Act 1, Bethany or Carver will leave your party, either permanently or until the endgame sequence.
What use is his personal tree when there is no way i can access it (i'm not gay)? It was much easier to spec Bethany as a healer than it was to subvert Anders from his starting build which wasn't healing oriented at all. It's no good intending him to be a healer if he's only good at being a healer in the endgame at the time you've unlocked his personal tree which you won't if you don't use him, and I don't. I'd been doing very well with Aveline Merrill and Bethany. The rest of the companions are irrelevant to me. Strange way to design a game: they want the player to have lots of personal freedom in how he interacts with story setting and character and then when you exercise that the game arbitrarily kills a character. Lame.
O__o I have to ask, what the heck do you mean you can't access his tree? Whether or not you are romancing or even a friend/rival has NOTHING to do with being able to access the trees. The only thing that I remember affecting it was your level.
DA2 is 'different' i must say... To be honest it really felt as if i was just playing the Sims with a darker side. The problem i have had with the game is they have left so much untold within the story. It seems as if they are preparing to answer most of the questions left in our minds via download content instead of giving us a full story (which is what i am predicting is going to happen).
So much was left unanswered and i am assuming EA/Bioware are going to make a killing with all the answers they release one at a time with DLC
1. What was Flemeth up to?
2. What was Alistar doing when the revolt was going on?
3. What exactly happened to Meridith after the blade broke?
4. What exactly does the seeker want the Champion and the Grey Warden for?
There are more questions that can easily be added here but this is just a few examples
As for what i thought of the story... I'm not sure at the moment. I think the big gripe between people is a sense of purpose or belonging, like there character actually meant something. DA:O you were one of the last Grey Wardens and there was a real sense of urgency where as DA2 you are just a refugee trying to make something of yourself...
I think it all comes down to the mindset you come into playing the game. Expecting your character to have the same sort of influence and impact compared to DA:O is ridiculous. But having said that it seems they have tried to allow you mold your champion in your own way during there day to day life rather then just the events that really show your characters true values/intentions.
Not really, my character is a rogue so my party choices are a bit more limited in the deep roads as Varric, another rogue, has to accompany me. Therefore there are two other slots, one of which has to be a tank (aveline). The last spot would either have to be Anders Bethany or Merill and only Bethany has the proper medical spells. I could have specced Anders or Merrill accordingly but that would have been a poor choice (and i wouldn't have known ahead of time that Bethany was to die) since they are clearly built differently; Merrill is a blood mage and her bonus talent tree is already unlocked to begin with, while Anders is specced aggressively. It's poor game design because you cannot plan your companions' build accordingly ahead of time. Whether this will affect my gameplay subsequently remains to be seen but since i've yet to meet a specific healer companion (like Wynn from DAO) it's a weak piece of game design, and contrived storytelling, to just arbitrarily kill your sister just because she's there. It's also badly done.
You're telling me? Carver was my best fighter. I constantly had to go around without a healer (Anders was mine and he annoyed me to the point where I said "Fuck it, I'll just die more often") and sometimes without a tank which in Baldur's Gate would have been a nice suicide mission. At least the game was easy enough and I didn't end up needing anyone in particular.
They did give you a hint that something will happen...no game will make the mother weep and whine so much without it having something bad as a result. But then they get rid of your sister/brother anyway. "Tee hee! Suck it players!"
And since the spoilers are already out As for spoilers, when the mother was killed my entire motivation was killed along with it. I played as someone family focused and since there was nothing and no one left around, my Hawke would have just spent the rest of her days in the Hanged Man, spending her collosal fortune on booze. But, no dice. I still have to go through the plot without so much as a push. It made the third year very dull for me.
I really don't feel like sharing details about the specifics of the story, but having just finished it (and being in awe, so - be warned, at the moment I can't think up of criticism too well) let me just say thusly.
The companion characters actually felt less archetypal than what is par for the course in most Bioware games and that's an immediate plus right there. The decision making actually feels a lot more impactful than it usually does since it spans 7 years and you get to see how people, both companions and non-companions, evolve over three stages of their lives rather than just a fire-and-forget 'happily ever after' or 'dick move' result. It actually gives it a feeling I only felt from Alpha Protocol before (and as I've noted even before launch, it seems like they took some notes from some of its design choices as they made DA2).
And the conclusion is absolutely balls-to-the-walls insane in a good way. In Origins the conclusion was alright, but I was like 'meh - so we get to kill the big bad dragon *shrug* much as I expected.' and the only decision you made then you could prepare for well in advance (i.e. who's gonna sacrifice themselves to kill the archdemon). But here there was no easy decision. Oh sure, you already get a good idea of who you're gonna fight, but the context is constantly shifting so you can't ever really make up your mind as to who you're going to support. Events suddenly start to happen much faster and even though you have the time to stop and think on your response, it catches you off guard a whole lot more because you didn't quite see it coming. There was no good or bad guy really and no matter what you chose - shit goes very, very bad. Though at least you got to determine *how* it goes bad, which of course results in a different conclusion and aftermath.
It's much like Shamus Young once said. 'Bioware are getting away with murder through story.' And the funny thing is...I actually *like* the new combat and difficulty in DA2 too!
I haven't played enough of Dragon Age II to comment on the story yet, so I'll leave that alone for now. I will comment on Origins however; because it's something I've never really understood. It's praised for its excellent writing and characterisation but I just never got into any of it and here's why. I was told by a friend that in Dragon Age: Origins I'd get to create my own unique story and that I'd have a lot of influence over the story.
Then how come from the get go I felt constricted, right from the Origin story? I picked Human Noble (as there are apparently no human commoneners or middle class, something I was pissed about to start with) and it started off okay. There was always a conversation choice that appealed to me right up until Duncan asked me to become Grey Warden. I could not refuse? Well that's when I first quit and took a break from the game.
See I'd worked out that Ethan (my character) was just a vengeful little bastard and he only wanted to nab the little turncoat who screwed over his family. I worked out that nothing else mattered, not even the imprending darkspawn threat. Apparently the plot didn't agree and shoehorned me into becoming a Warden. The 'Right of Conscription' bollocks annoyed me but I powered through. Maybe I need to be a Warden in case I do come across darkspawn, maybe only they can kill darkspawn?
Wrong again it seems. So I suffer from a ravenous hunger, nightmares and a shortened lifespan. Great. Oh and I can sense darkspawn; also they can sense me. I'd become a Grey Warden; knowing The Joining might have killed me in the first place; and now I've got all these other burdens? So what are the benefits here? Funnily enough to actually start The Joining I needed to kill several darkspawn; so your average Joe is more than capable of killing them.
I know this seems really petty and trivial, but it just completely put me off. Say what you will; but a game that offers you speech choices that are actually just hidden dead ends are pointless. Because from this point on the story made no sense to me. Why was I a Grey Warden? Because I had to be. Why was I building an army? Because I had to. I just felt like the story was trailing me along and ocasionally asking for (and subsequently ignoring) my opinion.
As for the characters... well what about them? If they were any less interesting they'd be cardboard cut outs. I like the combat, the tactics. I liked the setting and RPG elements. The story was weak and the characters didn't help.
when the mother was killed my entire motivation was killed along with it. I played as someone family focused and since there was nothing and no one left around, my Hawke would have just spent the rest of her days in the Hanged Man, spending her collosal fortune on booze. But, no dice. I still have to go through the plot without so much as a push. It made the third year very dull for me.
The murderer is (of course) a blood mage and is supported by First Enchanter Whatshiselfface Orsino. Who is a blood mage necromorph himself. Does it have to be so GrimDark? Can't we have a few decent people that survive longer than 3 cutscenes?
The game constantly bombards you with choices and then makes them have the same outcome (if any). Save an innocent mage from blood mages and templars? You meet her later as a blood mage thirsty for revenge. Kill her? You can't. Turn her over to the templars? You meet her later and she's got a revenge with your name on it. Often the winning move is not to accept the quest, if that's even possible. You usually can choose to be nice, snarky, or stern, though, and using one option more than others unlocks "special" super-options. That's some variety at least.
And there's no post-game summary of your actions and consequences. The game would've been better not pretending to have a super-story and focus on combat and environment variety. Instead we got a game that is fairly mediocre in all aspects.
P.S. I hope the next game will have a Qunari protagonist who can choose between [Quote The Qun Rules of Acquisition], [Disapprove], and [*Stare*].
when the mother was killed my entire motivation was killed along with it. I played as someone family focused and since there was nothing and no one left around, my Hawke would have just spent the rest of her days in the Hanged Man, spending her collosal fortune on booze. But, no dice. I still have to go through the plot without so much as a push. It made the third year very dull for me.
The murderer is (of course) a blood mage and is supported by First Enchanter Whatshiselfface Orsino. Who is a blood mage necromorph himself. Does it have to be so GrimDark? Can't we have a few decent people that survive longer than 3 cutscenes?
The game constantly bombards you with choices and then makes them have the same outcome (if any). Save an innocent mage from blood mages and templars? You meet her later as a blood mage thirsty for revenge. Kill her? You can't. Turn her over to the templars? You meet her later and she's got a revenge with your name on it. Often the winning move is not to accept the quest, if that's even possible. You usually can choose to be nice, snarky, or stern, though, and using one option more than others unlocks "special" super-options. That's some variety at least.
And there's no post-game summary of your actions and consequences. The game would've been better not pretending to have a super-story and focus on combat and environment variety. Instead we got a game that is fairly mediocre in all aspects.
P.S. I hope the next game will have a Qunari protagonist who can choose between [Quote The Qun Rules of Acquisition], [Disapprove], and [*Stare*].
My god...the qunari idea...pure genius. I want to play that now. Why do the players of a series have so much better ideas than the developers? I actually hoped you could have a Qunari in the party...or a Tal Vashoth. He would have been around me always and I would have given him a cute nickname and we would have frolicked manly-like though the woods slaughtering everything as we went.
And the nice/snarky/stern options actually mean the same thing except in a different tone. The best thing for NPC quests is to read the spoilers and decide not to them (I'm looking at you Anders and Merril...you stupid bastards)
It's a rare game in which reading spoilers in encouraged just so that it doesn't go out of hand.
Edit: After re-reading this and thinking for a bit, I realized another thing...In any RPG you make people believe in you and trust you. But this is the only one that punishes you if you trust an NPC too much without a proper reason to.
After all...why would you trust Anders? He's insane. And Merril's obsessed. In the end, I may end up playing only with Aveline, your sibling(until Bioware slaps your wrist and takes them away) and Varric (and even he with care since he can also go downhill with the idol thing).
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