Dragonborn dissapointment

Recommended Videos

SajuukKhar

New member
Sep 26, 2010
3,434
0
0
rhizhim said:
well, my fellow escapist. you should cure that derpness.

and then go to bedesthas offices and tell them to stop creating gimmicky DLC that add nothing important to the story.
just like the heartfire DLC....
and every other DLC they released so far.
DLC isn't supposed to continue the story of the base game, it's supposed to be side stories. You can't force people to by DLC to extend the ending of a game. Just like you cant make DLC that extends pre-existing faction questlines.

Bethesda isn't like Bioware, and they dont plan on making you pay more for the ending, like Bioware was going to do with the ME3 extended cut DLC.

j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
Firstly, dragons fly using magic, not areodynamics, and they can speed up, and slow down, via magic. Also, Horses aren't that slow, horses normally walking speed is equal to your running speed, and their running speed is equal to twice you running speed.

Again, that could be solved by making them fly slower, via magic.
.
.
Also, I think you have the wrong impression about what I think of Bethesda, I dont mind dragon riding as it is, and I really dont think its that crappy.

Considering that dragon riding was in the game jam video, which was made by Bethesda BEFORE the game came out, and showed the exact same dragon riding we got in Dragonborn, its addition in the Dragonborn DLC has nothing to do with fan clamoring, they put in what they wanted to do since before the game came out.
 

SajuukKhar

New member
Sep 26, 2010
3,434
0
0
rhizhim said:
Nice try, but Fallout: Broken Steel was only made as a result of ridiculous fan backlash to the original ending. It was an anomaly amongst DLC.

All of Bethesda's other DLC dont continue the story, and they learned how to make the ending of a game not as bad as Fallout 3 so that it doesn't require a DLC to fix it.
.
.
Also, Dawgnaurd > then any of the werewolf or Vampire mods released before it, and hearthfire made the "build you own home mod looks like crap in comparison.

Not to mention that the homes in Hearthfire actually looked like something that would exist in the game world, unlike most housing mods that consist of giant castles that some modders glued onto the side of a mountain that look tacky as hell, and like they dont belong.
 

SajuukKhar

New member
Sep 26, 2010
3,434
0
0
rhizhim said:
and the extended cut was released from the bottom of biowares heart.....
Difference is that the extended cut was planed, from day 1, to be a payed DLC. Broken Steel wasn't planned.

rhizhim said:
which i had to disagree.
You cant disagree because you cannot make people pay for a DLC that extended faction questlines in the base game. You can't make a DLC that extended the DB, or the College, or the Companions, or the Thieves guild.

rhizhim said:
Why would the DLC have anything to do with stopping alduin? that was already taken care of in the MQ itself. Your really not making much sense in trying to tie everything into the Dragon plot when the Dragon plot was already solved in the base game's MQ.

Not to mention the fact that the game was NEVER just about dragons.
 

unoleian

New member
Jul 2, 2008
1,332
0
0
Really couldn't care less about the dragon riding. I didn't see a need for it before and don't see a need for it now. I got my money's worth out of everything else in the DLC and dragon riding was seriously never on my radar at all.

Besides, the necessary shout added the probably unintended benefit of getting to blast a shout into a dragon's face that makes it stop attacking and possibly even fly away without needing to fight the damn things yet again. Awesome for those times when you just can't be bothered by them.

That to me is more valuable than getting to ride the damn things any day of the year, and that kind of serious intimidation is something I would expect someone with the title of "Dragonborn" to do.

This is something the DLC in general does right overall, which is seriously add some godlike aspects to the late-game powers. The DLC does too much right for me to get hung up over a silly mechanic like dragon riding.
 

SajuukKhar

New member
Sep 26, 2010
3,434
0
0
rhizhim said:
yes you are right, i give up.
Actually it was, bioware admitted it themselves.

It was originally going to be a 10 dollar DLC, and they only changed it because they had no idea that people were going to be that mad over the base game's ending.

This is OLD news.
 

SajuukKhar

New member
Sep 26, 2010
3,434
0
0
rhizhim said:
mind to post some sources?
Sure, if you dont mind waiting for the next 3 years while I dig through half a years worth of BSN forum posts to find the one or two developer posts where they admitted that they did it, that is even if they are still there considering how often Bioware deletes threads in their entirety whenever people start saying ANYTHING bad about them.
 

Legion

Were it so easy
Oct 2, 2008
7,190
0
0
Although I enjoy Skyrim a lot of the things Bethesda implemented were pretty half assed.

Marriage is pretty much pointless unless you want it for money.
Crafting you cannot make mage items such as robes or staffs.
Dragons are basically fast travel with a little more style.
Werewolves and Vampires could have had so many things added for them, but they are pretty simple.
You can build a house, but in three set locations and with very little choice involved.

The game is enjoyable, but so many things feel more shallow than they could be.

SajuukKhar said:
rhizhim said:
and the extended cut was released from the bottom of biowares heart.....
Difference is that the extended cut was planed, from day 1, to be a payed DLC. Broken Steel wasn't planned.
Source? Pretty sure Bioware would strongly deny that ever being the case. Their PR after the game was over and the backlash ensued was that they'd be making a DLC to please fans. Not that they were already making one.

Not that I'd be surprised if that were the case, but I know for sure Bioware wouldn't be likely to admit it themselves, considering they always try and make themselves look like saints.
 

SajuukKhar

New member
Sep 26, 2010
3,434
0
0
Legion said:
Marriage is pretty much pointless unless you want it for money.
Crafting you cannot make mage items such as robes or staffs.
Dragons are basically fast travel with a little more style.
Werewolves and Vampires could have had so many things added for them, but they are pretty simple.
You can build a house, but in three set locations and with very little choice involved.
-Marriage also changes your +10% bonus to skill eveling from sleeping to a +15% bonus to skill leveling from sleeping, but yeah, it's pointless.
-Staff crafting was added in Dragonborn.
-Werewovles got some rings in Dragonborn, similar to the Vampire power booster rings/amulets in Dawnguard.
-except what wings you put on it, and every single item you choose to build, or not build, in the interior.
 

Legion

Were it so easy
Oct 2, 2008
7,190
0
0
SajuukKhar said:
Legion said:
Marriage is pretty much pointless unless you want it for money.
Crafting you cannot make mage items such as robes or staffs.
Dragons are basically fast travel with a little more style.
Werewolves and Vampires could have had so many things added for them, but they are pretty simple.
You can build a house, but in three set locations and with very little choice involved.
-Marriage also changes your +10% bonus to skill eveling from sleeping to a +15% bonus to skill leveling from sleeping, but yeah, it's pointless.
-Staff crafting was added in Dragonborn.
-Werewovles got some rings in Dragonborn, similar to the Vampire power booster rings/amulets in Dawnguard.
-except what wings you put on it, and every single item you choose to build, or not build, in the interior.
The marriage one is not really a point considering that stat boosts are not really the reason for why something like that'd exist.

Good to know staffs can be crafted. Bad to know that it requires extra money.

I do not consider the skill trees for Vampires and Werewolves to be anything interesting. Vampires assumes you want to look like a grotesque, as opposed to getting anything good as a normal vampire. Werewolves basically become stronger. I was talking about things like being hunted by people, only being able to live at night (as a vampire) etc. Things that add more depth to the game, not stats.

You can choose what to have, you cannot decide where it goes. It's not really worth paying money for, unless you hate walking for 10-20 seconds to get to the crafting places in towns.

Like I said, they aren't bad. They are half assed. They could easily have more depth, but they do not.
 

SajuukKhar

New member
Sep 26, 2010
3,434
0
0
Legion said:
As far as I am aware staff crafting is the exact same as normal weapon enchanting. I dont see how it would require any less money then normal weapon crafting.

-If you join the Vampire side in Dawnguard, the Dawnguard frequently sends people to hunt you down, along with writs of execution. Becoming a werewolf involves joining the companions, and the one order that tries to kill werewolves, the silver hand, gets killed by you. Also, If you transform in front of vigilants, they will attack you every time they see you afterwards. Beyond that, no one attacks you because they simply dont know that you are a Vampire or Werewolf, until you transform in front of them, and if you do, you get a sizable bounty on you and most people try to attack you.

People dont send other to hunt you down because, for the most part, it makes no sense that they would KNOW you are a Vampire or a werewolf.

-Vampires have never only been able to live at night.

-You cannot choose where things go because of the navmesh. The Navmesh is the thing that controls were NPCs are able to walk, and the Navmesh cannot dynamically adapt, it has to be pre-created.

You CAN make a house that lets you put things where you want, it was done in Fallout via a mod, but the controls for it are god-awful, and I mean god-awful, an no NPCs could ever use the house, which makes adoption and marriage, and having stewards/housecarls, meaningless.

That's also part of the reason why you cant build houses wherever you want either, the Navmesh needs to be changed to prevent animals from running into the walls of your house because the navmesh hasn't been altered to go around your house. That and land alterations would look funky in some places.
 

The Heik

King of the Nael
Oct 12, 2008
1,568
0
0
SajuukKhar said:
j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
Firstly, dragons fly using magic, not areodynamics, and they can speed up, and slow down, via magic. Also, Horses aren't that slow, horses normally walking speed is equal to your running speed, and their running speed is equal to twice you running speed.

Again, that could be solved by making them fly slower, via magic.
.
.
You fallen into a bit of a logical fallacy there Sajuu. While dragons are considered to be magical creatures, they don't just exude spells like bad BO. They have to focus their magic into Shouts, so if it was true that they used magic to fly then they would need to constantly Shout to remain airborne. Ergo, airborne magical combat would either be impossible or incur a massive risk of crashing into the ground every time the dragon swapped the Flying Shout for a combat Shout.

And even if the flight was done by some inherent magical auras or some such, then it raises a big question: Why do they have wings at all? Sure they look impressive, but wings large and rather unwieldy, even when being used in flight (think of it as the equivalent to fighting with one of those ridiculously long and flowing capes on your back. It'd just get in the way the point of even interrupting everyday actions). So if the wings don't actually need to fill the role that they usually do, then why don't the Dovah look like Chinese dragons?


Because the standard 4-leg system would be smaller, efficient, and far more practical, to say nothing of the advantages it would offer in combat (see any member of the cat family for examples to that end).

But the Skyrim dragons have wings, so it would stand to reason that they do need them for sustained flight, else why would they put themselves in such an awkward position on the land (where they need to eat, rest and the like) with a body based around aerodynamic flight?

And while we're on the subject of flight, do you remember the final parts of the mission Unbound (the intro mission of Skyrim) where Alduin flies on overhead? It takes him about 10 seconds to crest over Bleak Falls Barrow from being directly over your position. That's ludicrously fast for the Elder Scrolls universe. Comparably, the fastest horse in Skyrim would roughly take several minutes to do the same, and that's in a straight line managing to ignore most of the obstacles that would be in the way. So flying around on a dragon would melt the processors of any electronic device shy of a hell-forged supercomputer from space via sheer weight of data being fed as you transition through one cell every few seconds.

And yes, while you can slow down the dragon's speed to cover for the cell-loading, you suddenly run into the problem of dragon riding becoming a massive time sink for not much reward. Yeah you do get to fight on a dragon, but if you really need the dragon to win the fight then you can hardly wait for the whole summoning process (most likely a la Odahviing flying to you or the whole Durnehviir literally being built next to you) to finish while the supposedly dangerous enemy you're fighting carves you like a Christmas goose. And if you do manage to fend off the enemy for that long, you've likely already killed them yourself, so the whole summoning malarky is rather pointless.

Even in terms of travel, it's going to be overshadowed by the more mundane aspects of the game. Dragon riding would not be an early game feature to have, so unless you played to get the dragon-riding skill alone, then by the time you've unlocked it you'd already have explored a good chunk of the map, so fast travel would simply be the more efficient solution to get where you need to go, and even if you did fly you'd most likely miss out on a lot of the game's secondary content. And if the dragon's speed was slowed to account for cell loading, then I could just Summon Arvak the horse and be well on my way by the time you've just finished summoning your dragon.

It really is a case of [a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AwesomeButImpractical"]Awesome but Impractical[/a]. Yes it's cool, but would you really ever use it more than once or twice?
 

SajuukKhar

New member
Sep 26, 2010
3,434
0
0
The Heik said:
Only the thu'um requires that Dragons use shouts, but dragons have other magics beyond the thu'um. Dragon's fly using other magics, Dragons speak in the human speech, despite not having facial structure to support human speech, using magic, and some dragons even practiced necromancy. Dragons are not limited to Thu'um based magics.

As for why the dragons have wings despite using magic to fly, because that is the way their father Akatosh created them. Same reason why they dont reproduce despite that being massively detrimental in keeping their population stable.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:King_Edward,_Part_XII
Moraelyn asked with a smile, "All right then, I've always wanted to know this - considering the shape of your mouth and teeth, how do dragons manage to speak the humanoid languages so clearly?"

Akatosh paused, and then carefully responded, "Why, in much the same way that we can fly, even though our wings are not naturally strong enough to support such heavy torsos."
.
.
Also, many people dont fast travel, its called RPing, something few people seem to do in RPGs anymore.

Dragon riding is fun for people who RP.
 

-Ezio-

Eats Nuts, Kicks Butts.
Nov 17, 2009
348
0
0
SajuukKhar said:
croc3629 said:
They really should not have wasted time on dragon riding if it was going to be so insubstantial (although mods will make it better, mark my words).

You know what would have been fun to implement? Spears.

I know they can do it...
Spears are already in the game, in Dragonborn.
not really. the "spears" you get are from rieklings. and you can only use them as arrows. arrows with shitty damage i might add.
 

Auron

New member
Mar 28, 2009
531
0
0
I'll be disappointed when Bethesda chooses to disappoint me on the PC... But to be fair dragon riding's not something I was looking for, just more story and things to slay.
 

SajuukKhar

New member
Sep 26, 2010
3,434
0
0
j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
Why do dragons have wings?
Why are there time traveling robots with lightsabers for hands?
Why can the redguards cut atoms with swords?
Why was a king born from a hill that another king had sex with?
Why was the construction kit, loading save games, and pausing time when opening the menus, put into lore?
Why do Dwemer machines work despite....no BECAUSE, they violate the earthbones, the laws of physics?
Simply... because.

Expecting dragons to fly as they would on earth is a terrible argument, Nirn is not earth, and to expect fantasy to equal reality is boring, and thus wrong. There is nothing immersion breaking for those who understand the lore.
.
Expecting flying animals to more quicker is a fault of your own. I frankly, and I know many others that share the same opinion, would not care if Dragons moved as slow as a horse. The only reason why dragon flight is "impossible" is because you seem to want to shovel real-world expectation upon a world that is, by even its own lore, impossible and can't exist.
.
Dragon flying being half-baked is an opinion, I have seen many on the Elder Scrolls forums who like it exactly the way it is.
.
False, in, entirety, do not blame marketing when evidence shows us otherwise. Dragon riding is something the devs considered, and worked on, since the game was first being made.