Dragonborn dissapointment

[SajuukKhar]

It's a logical conclusion, I mean, why else do all the Major (captain M major) cities have their own "loading zones"? If the 360 has a lot more memory, or wasn't even developed for the PC, Skyrim would have nearly no loading zones, other then those typically in and out of buildings/dungeons.

Even if the 360 had more ram, the main cities would still be in separate zones because it's just more efficient to make them that way, many people who use the open cities mod get terrible lag because their PCs aren't good enough to handle it, and it drastically cuts down on possible NPC deaths, and thus fan whining that NPCs died, and thus they cant get some quests.

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1. Nope, not what I was talking about

2. Dragon riding works in that video..... BECAUSE IT FLYS SLOW..... no really, watch the video again, it doesn't flying as fast as normal dragons do, it's flying slow, like horse running slow, or possibly werewolf run speed..... which is exactly what I proposed as a viable solution..... like 8 times.

Still waiting for spears or whatever though. When that gets added in they'll probably add in a new skilltree, and in doing so hopefully add in a system to the creation kit for modders to make and add in custom skilltrees, rather than just modding the ones that already exist.
That's probably a bit to much to ask for though, so I'll just settle for another skilltree to screw around with.

Bethesda once said, I think it was Todd specifically, they really didn't want to add new weapon types because of how hard it is to add new skill trees, and because of how much it would screw over level 81 characters who have used all of their perk points.

However, since Dragonborn added perk respecing, they MIGHT have solved the biggest problem in adding new skill trees.

Wouldn't get my hopes up though, they would probably just throw Spears into one-handed/two-handed, and make them use sword perks.

 

[Fappy]

I thought that the idea of dragon riding was stupid and should have never been implemented, regardless of how well it was done. In fact, I'm probably a little glad that it sucked so now people will shut the fuck up about it.

My thoughts exactly. Dragonborn has so much other stuff to love. I don't get why everyone is getting caught up on dragon riding, spears and werebears.

 

[Zenn3k]

Lackluster game, thats had nothing but lackluster DLC, releases ANOTHER lackluster DLC?

News at 11.

 

[The Heik]

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Apparently you dont know that there is no difference between the dragon language, and shouting, for dragons.

Actually there is. Proof of it exists when you first meet Parthunaax. When he says "Yol" against the Word Wall, he spits out the flame. However when you ask him for help on meditating on the Words of Power (in this case fire breath), he says "Yol" yet again (as well as Fus and Feim). And guess what? No flame. If Thu'um and dovah language were the one and the same, then he would have barbecued the Dovahkiin right there. That means that there is some method by which dragons can trigger the Thu'um.

I think that you may have been mixing up the statement "A battle between two dragons is actually a deadly verbal debate" that was said in the loading screens of the game, with Dovah language being the foundation of the Thu'um. Otherwise they'd be blasting out a Shout effect with every word, in which case the dragons would scarcely have anywhere to land with all the craters they'd be hammering into the landscape.

Eye, but until we see a shout that does those things specifically, we can't assume they exist, and thus, there is still plenty of things dragons need other magics for, because there is no known shout that can do the same thing.

You're setting a bit of a double standard here. With the "dragon flight" spell you're assuming that just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there, and yet here you're saying that just because we haven't seen other Thu'um means we can't assume that they exist. You can't have it both ways. Either consider both to be a possibility or neither. Now I'm personally in favour or the latter, but we're being shown entirely new shouts with the Dragonborn and Dawnguard DLCs, so it's pretty evident that our knowledge regarding the Thu'um is incomplete.

The difference between soul tear, and necromancy, is the same as the illusion magic/aura whisper comparison you made before. Aura whisper can do something similar to illusion magic, but it is not illusion magic itself. The source of real necromancy is different then that of the soul tear shout, different magics, similar results.

Ah, I think I know what the problem here is. You're assuming that terms like "necromancy" and "illusion" require a specific type of energy to be classified as such. Well there are two terms that I feel I should establish: "type" and "school".

Let me show you an example.

First is the spells "fire bolt" and "fire rune". Both use the same elemental energy of flame, and both are in the Destruction school of magic. Pretty straightforward yes? However within the same school there also exist spells like "frostbite" and "ice spike" which use a different type of energy (cold), yet are considered to be of the same school due to the similarity of their uses. Conversely in the Enchanting school of magic there exists cold type enchantments like "reduce cold damage". Different school, same energy.

So you see spell aren't limited by their source, they are rather defined by their application. So while the "Soul Tear" might not be of the same type of magic that spell like the necromancy "dead thrall" would be, it is still considered to be part of the school of necromancy because it is utilized for the same purpose (although I still consider necromancy to be a more specialized facet of the Conjuration and Enchanting schools anyway, but that's nitpicking)

As to why I considered Thu'um to be superior to most magic, it comes down to the energy type. Seeing as Thu'um was given to both dragons and humans by gods directly (Akatosh and Kynareth respectively), it could be classified as God-type magic, which usually means it can fuck with the rules of how regular spells work, and can usually surpass them in almost every aspect. However that doesn't change where each Thu'um lies in terms of it's applicable uses.

Not to mention that all magic, whatever its energy-type or application, ultimately comes from one supreme source, whatever that source may be (as the Elder Scrolls are said to have been the things that created all of reality, though they are hardly what you'd consider a "straightforward" source when it comes to telling us anything).

I understand that the Thu'um wasn't around during Daggerfall, and that the two dragons spitting fire at each other wasn't them using a shout, at least when the book was originally conceived. The point I was trying to make is that, even with the addition of the Thu'um, the traits of the dragons in the book, having fire-breathing bouts when they meet, are still canon even thought its been 15 years since the book was in the game, and thus, the other traits mentioned in the book, such as using magic to fly, and to speak human speech, are also likely to be true as well.

Akatosh is batshit insane, literally. He has been killed at least 4 times, has had his body ripped apart by the beliefs of mortals forming various other hims, and his sheer presence drives his avatars, such as Pelinal, crazy. Akatosh also gave Mankar Camreon, the badguy of Oblivion, the power of the Dragonborn, because he wanted The Empire to die, while at the same time, had Martin Septm, another dragonborn, try to save it. Akatosh is known to be crazy, and a douche that keeps a harem of ALL the female dragons all to himself.

You've just said that this is as nutty as the Aedra come, and yet you trust what this individual is saying regardless? I'm sorry but that's like trusting Sheograth to be your lawyer in court. That is nowhere near being a smart bet.

And there is nothing in the games that doesn't prove that dragon's use magic to fly, and given that the aerodynamic you seem so hellbent on forcing into the game would prevent Dragons from being able to fly, as their wings would NOT be able to generate enough lift to lift their bodies, so some magic must be at work.

I think we may both be going at this logic from the wrong angle. Rather that seeing dragon flight as a spell cast by the dragon, how about that is an inherent magical trait of the Dov. Both Vampires and Werewolves (being magical beings) have unique characteristics that are just a natural part of their forms (immunity to disease and such), so why wouldn't dragons, seeing as they are a purely magically created race? So rather than cast a spell that allows them to fly (which we've never seen or been told), Dovah simply have a trait of their forms that makes flight for them be doable with wings of that size (Because I'll be honest, as much as I have argued for the fact that dragon do need their wings for flight, those flappers are half the size that they'd need to be to instigate and sustain flight, though that is in part due to artistic license and level design). So I think what Jynthor was talking about might be what we were getting towards. We were just using the wrong terminology in our debate to get to it.

I suppose that this option that covers both our criteria for Dovah flight, and I put forward that is matter is solved.

Dragons loose the ability to shout when their magicka is drained, which is it by shouting, and which it normally is by the time you ground them. I think it is true that using shouts can tire a dragon out, especially if he has had 500 arrows thrown into his body.

Uh 500 arrows to the torso is not "tired". The proper term for that state of affairs is "suffering several severe internal injures from being turned into a medieval pincushion". Although I still say that wouldn't ring true, because I've fought against these giant lizards quite a bit (heck I started a thread [a href="http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.327787-Skyrim-Dragons-Ok-this-is-getting-ridiculous"]a year back[/a] about how prolifically they've appeared in my playthroughs). At this point, I've probably netted enough dragon skulls to build my own Imperial City out of them, and at no point did they stop using Thu'um aka magic (even after I'd permanently grounded their scaly butts), until I'd killed them. Honestly, I don't think that the Shouts could drain enough power from Dov to tire them out. Heck even the Greybeards, mere humans, could spit of Shouts at a fairly constant pace. The only reason why Dragonborn can't do that often is because of the aforementioned OPness of it when compared to magic.

I am perfectly fine with dragon riding as it is, as are many people, so your assumption that it isn't fine, is opinion only, and not objective fact.

Hey if you're fine with it, that's fine. But simply because someone likes a game mechanic doesn't mean that it's somehow immune to being flawed. I've got a buddy who enjoys Kane and Lynch 2, but that doesn't stop it from being a pretty unanimously declared a crap game. Heck, the best you've said about dragonriding is that it's "fine" and that you don't mind it, and those are hardly glowing declarations of it's quality.

Now speaking as someone who has made games (3 to be precise. I forgot to mention I'm a univseristy student studying game development and am in my final year) there's no real way to implement dragon riding that A) wouldn't clashing with the game engine horrendously, (which j-a-f-f-e-r-s has already pointed out on multiple occasions) and B) would require a complete overhaul of the game's controls and core mechanics to functional anywhere near cohesively or fairly. So unless the company has metric shit-ton of free time and coding skills to implement it and it alone, I doubt the console form of dragon-riding will ever improve from the pretty mediocre result that it is democratically considered to be. Maybe a PC mod will do it, but they are going to need the aforementioned m.s.t. to do anything half decent, and the consoles will still be SOL.