E3: Fable: The Journey Demo Was a "Horrendous Mistake," Says Molyneux
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... I am a fan of the Fable series. Despite all complaints, I found myself playing 1, 2, and 3 for days and weeks, taking different steps and simply just taking in the beauty of the game. It is a seriously beautiful and well crafted series, aesthetically. I truly feel like I am walking around in an old fairy tale book and it is awesome, even breathtaking at times, how things look and sound. Yes, this is despite the annoyances in the gameplay.
All that said, Peter has become like the stepfather who left my family completely fucked over. He's a charming liar and I know not to believe him. I just have faith in the people under him to make a great game. Hell, I am being unfair by comparing him to my ex-stepfather as I think Peter is genuinely one of the last crazy geniuses of the industry.
So perhaps a better way to say it is... "He acts senile and out of touch but occasionally shits a rainbow." I won't be surprised if this turns out bad and kills the series for me.
All that said, Peter has become like the stepfather who left my family completely fucked over. He's a charming liar and I know not to believe him. I just have faith in the people under him to make a great game. Hell, I am being unfair by comparing him to my ex-stepfather as I think Peter is genuinely one of the last crazy geniuses of the industry.
So perhaps a better way to say it is... "He acts senile and out of touch but occasionally shits a rainbow." I won't be surprised if this turns out bad and kills the series for me.
Amazing description.DeathWyrmNexus said:
That's the exact vibe I got from him. I kind of feel bad for him because he makes these bold statements, and when his games don't live up to them, people talk all sorts of bad about him.Omnific One said:
You know, I find it so hard to be mad at Peter. Actually, I find it nigh impossible. Even when he fucks up like this, at least he's going about things in somewhat of a good way.
He's one of the only big-name game developers I've seen that's actually passionate. You know how it is when you're massively passionate about something, you just naturally overstate and oversell it. It's part of human nature.
Sure he should reign himself in, but even when he goes off the rails with his overstatements of Fable games, I find it impossible to hold it against him because he's genuinely giving a shit about what he's doing. A lot of developers probably just make stuff and never speak about it in an interesting way, just "we have this new technology". Case and point: Cory Ledesma, the guy behind the WWE game series (formerly Smackdown vs Raw). Yes he's got some interest in it, but he never really comes across as recall giving too much of a shit.
With Peter... yes, he slips up pretty much constantly, but it's because he's so passionate about what he's doing, and for that reason I really can never hold it against. Hell, the fact I'm still enough of a Fable fan after 3 games that apparently got significantly worse each time to get annoyed about the apparently on-rails nature of this game is testament to that.
I love the Fable games. And Fable 2 is actually my favourite one of all 3. And good news for me: Fable: The Journey is not the next full entrance into the chronology of the series. It's a side-project they're doing. Trying to take it in a different direction as a little extra thing. So Fable 4 will still be coming in traditional format. And for that, I can forgive this Kinect-based game. Good for them to branch out beyond that they're used to with this franchise. More power to 'em I say.
He's one of the only big-name game developers I've seen that's actually passionate. You know how it is when you're massively passionate about something, you just naturally overstate and oversell it. It's part of human nature.
Sure he should reign himself in, but even when he goes off the rails with his overstatements of Fable games, I find it impossible to hold it against him because he's genuinely giving a shit about what he's doing. A lot of developers probably just make stuff and never speak about it in an interesting way, just "we have this new technology". Case and point: Cory Ledesma, the guy behind the WWE game series (formerly Smackdown vs Raw). Yes he's got some interest in it, but he never really comes across as recall giving too much of a shit.
With Peter... yes, he slips up pretty much constantly, but it's because he's so passionate about what he's doing, and for that reason I really can never hold it against. Hell, the fact I'm still enough of a Fable fan after 3 games that apparently got significantly worse each time to get annoyed about the apparently on-rails nature of this game is testament to that.
I love the Fable games. And Fable 2 is actually my favourite one of all 3. And good news for me: Fable: The Journey is not the next full entrance into the chronology of the series. It's a side-project they're doing. Trying to take it in a different direction as a little extra thing. So Fable 4 will still be coming in traditional format. And for that, I can forgive this Kinect-based game. Good for them to branch out beyond that they're used to with this franchise. More power to 'em I say.
What is the most telling is that very few people were really surprised by the notion that the next Fable would be on rails. I know I heard it and thought, "Well, that makes sense".
They had a great first game, and then decided to take all the challenge out. The second game practically forces you to become a jack of all trades rather than a specialist. It also destroyed the fun of magic by putting them in tiers. Then there's the interaction, which is a joke. Lionhead seems to really pride itself on being emotionally engaging and having deep interactions, but all I see are idiots spewing the same one liners while I fart and flex my arms.
They had a great first game, and then decided to take all the challenge out. The second game practically forces you to become a jack of all trades rather than a specialist. It also destroyed the fun of magic by putting them in tiers. Then there's the interaction, which is a joke. Lionhead seems to really pride itself on being emotionally engaging and having deep interactions, but all I see are idiots spewing the same one liners while I fart and flex my arms.
Good rule of thumb for anything Molyneux is involved with.
Take everything he says, reverse it completely.
"This will be the best RPG ever made", means "This will be the 3rd of 4th worst RPG this year"
"Total control over everything" means "Most everything is automated, uncontrollable, and easy to ignore all together"
I stopped trusting this guy back around the release of Black & White 2, where he took all the great ideas he came up with in Black & White (which was inventive, just unpolished), and took a giant shit all over it and destroyed the franchise.
He doesn't know how to design a game.
He's GREAT at concepts "what if we could do this?!", but has no idea how to put those concepts into realization and frankly shouldn't get any more attention than any 3rd rate game designer.
He's the KING of flops and false promises.
Take everything he says, reverse it completely.
"This will be the best RPG ever made", means "This will be the 3rd of 4th worst RPG this year"
"Total control over everything" means "Most everything is automated, uncontrollable, and easy to ignore all together"
I stopped trusting this guy back around the release of Black & White 2, where he took all the great ideas he came up with in Black & White (which was inventive, just unpolished), and took a giant shit all over it and destroyed the franchise.
He doesn't know how to design a game.
He's GREAT at concepts "what if we could do this?!", but has no idea how to put those concepts into realization and frankly shouldn't get any more attention than any 3rd rate game designer.
He's the KING of flops and false promises.
Not a fan of his games, I agree that it's really hard to dislike someone when he so earnestly tries to sell you something he's obviously put a lot of heart into.ReservoirAngel said:
It's kind of like when my younger brother shows me something he wrote and is obviously proud of, but it's just not very good T-T
That game is a horrendous mistake.
Fable IV better actually be good. The last time I played a good Fable game was TLC. Fable III had a cool concept - but anyone can come up with a cool concept.
And Peter...a nice guy and all, but I don't understand all the hype and praise he gets.
Fable IV better actually be good. The last time I played a good Fable game was TLC. Fable III had a cool concept - but anyone can come up with a cool concept.
And Peter...a nice guy and all, but I don't understand all the hype and praise he gets.
agreed in just about every line you just said.Woodsey said:
OT: intentions and ideas are good....good games to play are better.
go back to your roots on fable, more on the rpg and less on the super social avatar/mii thing that fable is becoming, i'm not saying all of 2 and 3 is bad, but its highly possible to take all the awesome things from the fable games and stick it all into a nice new installment, at a very reasonable cost/timeset for the game.
Molyneux is a liar. Haven't we already been schooled on this by the second and third fable titles? Can't we just get along and say, no Lionhead, we aren't complete dumbasses?
Seriously, the amount of feces Moly spews about how great his products are is no different, and I guess I am in the minority that finds his lack of ability to back up his promises and create his dreams classify him in the liars sections as opposed to the truth telling.
And every time- It's not on rails, sandbox just means the story is going to tell you at some point 'not now, I have a headache.' Seen it before. It's not so much not on rails as that the railway has a station between beginning and end.
Seriously, the amount of feces Moly spews about how great his products are is no different, and I guess I am in the minority that finds his lack of ability to back up his promises and create his dreams classify him in the liars sections as opposed to the truth telling.
And every time- It's not on rails, sandbox just means the story is going to tell you at some point 'not now, I have a headache.' Seen it before. It's not so much not on rails as that the railway has a station between beginning and end.
For me it's different. For me it's like if someone shows me something they wrote and it's really, really amazing but they just keep on about it to the point where you almost want to tell them its crap, but can never bring yourself to.dyre said:
The Fable games have problems but they're just so charming and engaging to me that I can never find them bad, but Peter just oversells them all the time, which is why I think a lot of people hold the games in a negative light. If you're promised the solar system then only get Pluto, you're going to get pissed off.
I've always liked the fable series so this is abit of a relief, my only worry now is, is this one coming out on pc at the same time as the xboxs release, or will be another 6-7 month down the line...or even worse will it be another fable 2 and just not come out on pc.
They did a pretty good port on 3 so as long as it's the same standard i won't mind if it's ported although i would like to see a side by side release considering Microsoft own both the console and the operating system your using so it's not like a rivals taking the extra money like if it were to go to the PS3.
They did a pretty good port on 3 so as long as it's the same standard i won't mind if it's ported although i would like to see a side by side release considering Microsoft own both the console and the operating system your using so it's not like a rivals taking the extra money like if it were to go to the PS3.
oh thank god. I thought you were saying the demo for Journey, the upcoming that game company game looked like shit at E3 and i was all like nooooooooo, but i dont care at all about fable, so i'm alright now. though molyneux being sad does make me a bit sad.
I love the first Fable. That an Lost Chapters are among my favourite games of all time. Because of that I was taken in my Peter's tall tales and thought he was awesome.
Then I played Fable 2. After that I started to see all the rubbish that comes out of his mouth. I also think that part of the reason I liked Fable 1 so much was because I never actually saw any pre-release hype or even an review. I just saw the game case on the shelf and thought it looked cool. But Fable 2 was... so so bad. If people picked that up like I did Fable 1, without knowing who made it, I bet they would think it was absolute trash and it wouldn't have got the high reviews scores it somehow managed.
Peter seems to focus so much on these new "innovations" of his it seems like he doesn't stop and take a moment to see whether they are really that useful. Like when he announced the whole bread crumb trail thing I was like "...why? What's wrong with mini-maps? They're proven to be the best way to do it". And sure enough the bread trail thing was terrible. Because it only shows you one way to go, and doesn't tell you what that place actually is! I was constantly pausing the game (which took ages since the menus took forever to load) to check my map to see where I actually wanted to go! Also it always annoyed me that they never explained why it was there in terms of the game world. None of the NPCs made any reference to the fact that there was a glowing gold magical line CONSTANTLY in front of me wherever I went. And because of all these so called "innovations" the quality of the game suffered, at a functional level. I think they didn't pay as much attention to the mundane aspects of the game design, which they did so to their loss. The game was broken on release and is still unenjoyable to play.
The first Fable game was actually not that unique in terms of design or features. But it had a wonderfully realised world, lore and characters (much of which they erased for the sequel). I liked the way you could interact with NPCs in the game. It did add more character to the world and made it feel inhabited, but was mostly a side distraction. But Peter seemed to think that it was the way to go and the best way to interact with characters. Because farting in someone's face is how all loving relationships start... It just did not and cannot hold the emotional weight that Peter wants it to.
People say "at least he tries!" or "he's so passionate!". I can see that point, but to say he tries means very little. Of course he tries, it's his job! If he didn't try then he wouldn't even be able to ship a product, let alone one of great quality. And yes he is passionate, but again there are plenty of game designers out there that are passionate about what they do and are able to produce brilliant games all without the PR blunders that Peter is constantly making. I do admire his enthusiasm to a certain degree. At least he's not short on ideas. He just really needs to be more realistic with his ideas and what he says. He need to take a step back every so often and think about whether his ideas are actually working and if they are fun, and to not get so carried away with them that he neglects the more mundane but very essential things about creating a good game.
Sometimes I feel like Lionhead aren't really listening to Peter. It's like they let him spout his crazy stuff while they just get on with trying to make a game. They try to make his ideas are a reality but doing so requires so much attention that they neglect other parts of the game that really need it. I don't know but I get the idea from playing the games and seeing what I have from Peter an Lionhead that it must be very chaotic to work with him. He needs to be more realistic.
Then I played Fable 2. After that I started to see all the rubbish that comes out of his mouth. I also think that part of the reason I liked Fable 1 so much was because I never actually saw any pre-release hype or even an review. I just saw the game case on the shelf and thought it looked cool. But Fable 2 was... so so bad. If people picked that up like I did Fable 1, without knowing who made it, I bet they would think it was absolute trash and it wouldn't have got the high reviews scores it somehow managed.
Peter seems to focus so much on these new "innovations" of his it seems like he doesn't stop and take a moment to see whether they are really that useful. Like when he announced the whole bread crumb trail thing I was like "...why? What's wrong with mini-maps? They're proven to be the best way to do it". And sure enough the bread trail thing was terrible. Because it only shows you one way to go, and doesn't tell you what that place actually is! I was constantly pausing the game (which took ages since the menus took forever to load) to check my map to see where I actually wanted to go! Also it always annoyed me that they never explained why it was there in terms of the game world. None of the NPCs made any reference to the fact that there was a glowing gold magical line CONSTANTLY in front of me wherever I went. And because of all these so called "innovations" the quality of the game suffered, at a functional level. I think they didn't pay as much attention to the mundane aspects of the game design, which they did so to their loss. The game was broken on release and is still unenjoyable to play.
The first Fable game was actually not that unique in terms of design or features. But it had a wonderfully realised world, lore and characters (much of which they erased for the sequel). I liked the way you could interact with NPCs in the game. It did add more character to the world and made it feel inhabited, but was mostly a side distraction. But Peter seemed to think that it was the way to go and the best way to interact with characters. Because farting in someone's face is how all loving relationships start... It just did not and cannot hold the emotional weight that Peter wants it to.
People say "at least he tries!" or "he's so passionate!". I can see that point, but to say he tries means very little. Of course he tries, it's his job! If he didn't try then he wouldn't even be able to ship a product, let alone one of great quality. And yes he is passionate, but again there are plenty of game designers out there that are passionate about what they do and are able to produce brilliant games all without the PR blunders that Peter is constantly making. I do admire his enthusiasm to a certain degree. At least he's not short on ideas. He just really needs to be more realistic with his ideas and what he says. He need to take a step back every so often and think about whether his ideas are actually working and if they are fun, and to not get so carried away with them that he neglects the more mundane but very essential things about creating a good game.
Sometimes I feel like Lionhead aren't really listening to Peter. It's like they let him spout his crazy stuff while they just get on with trying to make a game. They try to make his ideas are a reality but doing so requires so much attention that they neglect other parts of the game that really need it. I don't know but I get the idea from playing the games and seeing what I have from Peter an Lionhead that it must be very chaotic to work with him. He needs to be more realistic.
This just in: Peter admits that every Fable since Fable 1 has been bad and that Fable: Them Journey is just a sick joke. Promises to make next Fable more like F1. More at 11:00.
And for chrissake's, SOMEONE GET FUCKING RID OF THERESA ALREADY. She is utter and complete bull, and annoying as hell.
And for chrissake's, SOMEONE GET FUCKING RID OF THERESA ALREADY. She is utter and complete bull, and annoying as hell.
Thats strange. You must have some inside informants at Lionhead that the rest of us don't know about, because you seem to know about the game design changes. Wierdcursedseishi said: