English Irish Republican? The F**k?

[Vigilantis]

Hey while we're at it lets give back ALL the land to the Native Americans, not some small portions petty in comparison of what they once had.

But realistically I doubt either will happen...

 

[Doug]

as a Spaniard, I don't know much about Irelands "conflict" with the England, I'm guessing that it's something similar to the basques/catalans in Spain.

and as for the OP, I don't know, I think that every culture deserves some degree of independence


P.D I would be grateful is someone would sum up Irelands problem

I'll give it a try, but frankly the whole thing is abit of a mess so I'll have to do the over simple version.

A few hundred years ago, the English conquered Ireland as apart of the long and voilence history all the British isles have had, and occasionally tried to force them to become Protestant instead of Catholic. The Irish rebelled every so often, the English crushed them each time, often with the English and/or Irish committing war crimes against each other.

Just before WW1, the English had decided to slowly pull out and let the Irish run there own shit. When WW1 came around, everyone was too busy to keep the process going, and the Germans encouraged the Irish to rebel again. Just after WW1, there was peace talks, and the Republic of Ireland was born, with the Northern Irish keep seperate and as apart of the UK. Primarily because the majority of people living their where descented from English colonists, and/or where Protestant.

In the past...40-ish years, groups like the IRA have been trying to get N. Ireland reunited with the Republic of Ireland, inspite of the fact the majority opinion of the N. Irish has so far been to stick with the UK as a sub-state. Basically, the past 40 odd years have been guriella warfare between the republicans, the loyalists, and the UK, with the IRA bombing English cities, sometimes with warnings, and with the British army setting up many checkpoints throughout the N. Ireland and with 'peace walls' setup to divide the communities who are trying to kill each other.

Presently, most of the paramilitary groups have signed up to the Good Friday agreement, where N. Ireland got its own assembly but remained within the UK. Some splitter groups have tried to restart 'the troubles', but so far the peace is holding.

 

[Doug]

In the 1970's there was a referendum in NI to decide if they should remain part of UK or join the Irish republic. Majority voted to stay in the UK. Some radical republicans would claim the vote was rigged, but i seriously doubt it was- my point is though that the people of NI should be able to decide if they become part of Ireland or remain with the UK- it's up to them, the people have a right to decide who their government is, thats how democracy works.

This.

I'm sure that if the majority of Northern Ireland got up and said they want to join with Ireland, then the matter would be subjected to a lot of scrutiny.

Indeedie. And yet 'Irish'-Americans (hint: shit has changed in the last 100+ years since your ascentors where in Ireland) continued to provide money for bombs and guns to groups like the IRA. Even after 9/11. And lets not forget the last Kenny who thought that was a joy good idea too.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

its just as an Englishman with Irish ancestry, I feel kinda conflicted.

I'm in exactly the same state, and I suggest you read up on the HUGE amount of literature if you want a proper answer, because I'm still not sure I have one.

Since the Ceasefire was called, Ireland's drug problems have spiralled, so rather than them shooting down Shankhill, they're shooting up.

Given the balance of power is now about equal between Protestants and the Catholics, either way you choose there will be a lot of hateful people.

P.D I would be grateful is someone would sum up Irelands problem

That's half the problem, this has been going on since the 1910's. Most of those involved don't know exactly what's been going on.

For a VERY rough look... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles

 

[Doug]

Given the balance of power is now about equal between Protestants and the Catholics, either way you choose there will be a lot of hateful people.

Are we still talking about Northern Ireland here or virtually anywhere in the world

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Given the balance of power is now about equal between Protestants and the Catholics, either way you choose there will be a lot of hateful people.

Are we still talking about Northern Ireland here or virtually anywhere in the world

In most places in the world, they don't live next door to each other. That's half the problem. But I get the jist.

 

[Woodsey]

In the 1970's there was a referendum in NI to decide if they should remain part of UK or join the Irish republic. Majority voted to stay in the UK. Some radical republicans would claim the vote was rigged, but i seriously doubt it was- my point is though that the people of NI should be able to decide if they become part of Ireland or remain with the UK- it's up to them, the people have a right to decide who their government is, thats how democracy works.

This.

I'm sure that if the majority of Northern Ireland got up and said they want to join with Ireland, then the matter would be subjected to a lot of scrutiny.

Indeedie. And yet 'Irish'-Americans (hint: shit has changed in the last 100+ years since your ascentors where in Ireland) continued to provide money for bombs and guns to groups like the IRA. Even after 9/11. And lets not forget the last Kenny who thought that was a joy good idea too.

Now there's a point, why do Americans list the last 300-hundred-years of their ancestry when asked their nationality?

People don't seem to do it anywhere else.

 

[Doug]

In the 1970's there was a referendum in NI to decide if they should remain part of UK or join the Irish republic. Majority voted to stay in the UK. Some radical republicans would claim the vote was rigged, but i seriously doubt it was- my point is though that the people of NI should be able to decide if they become part of Ireland or remain with the UK- it's up to them, the people have a right to decide who their government is, thats how democracy works.

This.

I'm sure that if the majority of Northern Ireland got up and said they want to join with Ireland, then the matter would be subjected to a lot of scrutiny.

Indeedie. And yet 'Irish'-Americans (hint: shit has changed in the last 100+ years since your ascentors where in Ireland) continued to provide money for bombs and guns to groups like the IRA. Even after 9/11. And lets not forget the last Kenny who thought that was a joy good idea too.

Now there's a point, why do Americans list the last 300-hundred-years of their ancestry when asked their nationality?

People don't seem to do it anywhere else.

I realllly don't know - the "Scottish"-Americans piss me off though - I'm a half scot, my dad is a scot, and seeing a bunch of plastic scots dressed in knits and playing at being at scots just annoys me. There the reason why whenever I visit Edinburgh half the shops just sell Tartan and shortbread.

 

[The Last Nomad]

I'm Irish, and I don't even want that!
Mainly because it's not really feasable. Make people who live in the north give up their homes, or their culture?

Thing is, Ireland is completely free from Brittish rule. The land we use is just a little smaller. I really don't see the big deal anymore...

I would have to agree with this guy...
Why start up trouble that is only just about settled now...

(And I'm also Irish if your wondering, and I live on the Border so a sigle Ireland would also have the problem of not being able to go to newry and get all my stuff practically half price.)

 

[El Poncho]

I realllly don't know - the "Scottish"-Americans piss me off though - I'm a half scot, my dad is a scot, and seeing a bunch of plastic scots dressed in knits and playing at being at scots just annoys me. There the reason why whenever I visit Edinburgh half the shops just sell Tartan and shortbread.

I'm glad I haven't met any of these Scottish-Americans, also Edinburgh is a tourist town so I don't mind the tartan.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

I would LOVE IT if the English just left NI alone so it can unite with the Republic of Ireland. It would be glorious...

Why would it be glorious?

I'm not being snarky, I'm wondering how this would benefit Ireland as a whole, seeing as how it's been stated time and again in this thread that most people in Northern Ireland like how things are.

 

[Doug]

I realllly don't know - the "Scottish"-Americans piss me off though - I'm a half scot, my dad is a scot, and seeing a bunch of plastic scots dressed in knits and playing at being at scots just annoys me. There the reason why whenever I visit Edinburgh half the shops just sell Tartan and shortbread.

I'm glad I haven't met any of these Scottish-Americans, also Edinburgh is a tourist town so I don't mind the tartan.

True enough, but I just get the feeling if it weren't for all the "Scottish"-American tourists, it would be abit less of a tourist hell; As for Tartan and shortbread, I don't mind either, but its stupid the sheer amount of it.

 

[Doug]

Indeedie. And yet 'Irish'-Americans (hint: shit has changed in the last 100+ years since your ascentors where in Ireland) continued to provide money for bombs and guns to groups like the IRA. Even after 9/11. And lets not forget the last Kenny who thought that was a joy good idea too.

they've kind of knocked that on the head since 9/11. fancy that, buildings blowing up in your country because of some business overseas that has nothing to do with you isn't all that fun. although it did annoy me when i found out how much money for the ira came from dumbshit "oi'm oirish, fiddle-dee-dee" americans getting people killed for the sake of feeling morally justified in drinking guinness. it'd be, soldiarity wise, about as provocative as me having a whip round in a pub for al qaeda.

Ah well... good-good; so long as they've stopped. And I know pretty much what you mean, though I don't think the English have any dodgy descences left to send money too who actually want it. The Americans can afford their own guns and bullets, the South Africans are no longer ruled by the white minority, and most former colonies are either democracies now or ruled by native dictators....yeah...hmm... I think its best we avoid English history now, heh.

 

[Doug]

Ah well... good-good; so long as they've stopped. And I know pretty much what you mean, though I don't think the English have any dodgy descences left to send money too who actually want it. The Americans can afford their own guns and bullets, the South Africans are no longer ruled by the white minority, and most former colonies are either democracies now or ruled by native dictators....yeah...hmm... I think its best we avoid English history now, heh.

oh god yeah, the English of a few hundred years ago were dicks, but a few hundred years before that we were conquered by the Romans, it's knowing when to just let go of something. i mean, nations conquer each other all the time (until recently) and if we were to 'reset' the world to before any conquest entire nations would disappear. history is history and really doesn't need to be picked over.

it just annoyed me that the ira were shown to be freedom fighters, desperately fighting against the odds. it's almost like its america that gets to draw that elusive line between terrorist and freedom fighter. everyone likes a star wars style story of absolute evil being defeated by plucky rebels, but paying for bullets that got policemen killed just because you can't be arsed to actually look the issue up and prefer the childish fiction you've invented is horrific.

Agreed on all counts - add to that, the Americans probably thought "Hey, its the Brits again! Trying to oppress people like they did us!" making them think we're somehow valid targets.

As for the Romans, I think their were we got the idea of conquering the world from. But thats just my own theory.

 

[Zykon TheLich]

I think it should be up to the people who live there. A good portion of those in N.Ireland want to remain part of the UK. Maybe at some time in the future there could be a county by county referendum to allow counties that voted for it to return to Irish rule.

 

[True-Asmodeus]

Am I the only Englishman that believes Ireland should be its own, united country, free of English rule?

Um... Yes. lol

In an ideal world it would be england being conquered... oh wait it was (James VI FTW) XD anywho I want Scotland to be independant, a lot of my friends want it to but it isn't going to happen with plenty of people being happy being british. So I assume the same is with Northern Ireland Also not while we are being milked for our gas and oil and taxes to build a fucking moat and watch porn. XD

 

[Spaghetti]

I think it should be up to the people who live there. A good portion of those in N.Ireland want to remain part of the UK. Maybe at some time in the future there could be a county by county referendum to allow counties that voted for it to return to Irish rule.

I think this is the best option overall. Although NI has been seperate for so long that I think I can predict that the Protestant majority will vote for remaning part of the UK.

Anyway, if there was a united Ireland, it would end up looking like Scotland and England under Thatcher. The protestant north would vote for Protestant parties, but be forever in the minority due to the larger Catholic population in the "South". Just like Scotland always voted for Labour but support for Thatcher in England made Scots minority.
It's been too long for unification to work.

 

[Susano]

The south couldn't afford to unite with Northern Ireland. We are cutting billions from our budget trying to cover the upkeep of public services, imagine if the North's Policing bill was added to that. It's long been understood that if The North could've been handed back it would've been, but it's just not feasable. The southern government has proved itself largely inept, and would be uncapable of any emalgamation.

Those from the wouth might be interested in a facebook page called....Bring doen the Irish government and replace it with a badger called Steven.

This. Our government are inept, and can't handle the country they control as it is. Want to give them more land to screw up?