Entrenched in The Console Wars!

[Jumplion]

What about the "SUPAH CHIP!" of the PS3? Or the "BELUH-RAY!"? GPUs arn't everything (which, yet again, I forgot what they do >_>; ) Ps3 is hardly from it's limits, many developers who work on the 360 have said that they're "stretching it's limits" or whatever, and Uncharted was only using about 30% of the PS3's power (allegedly, I always take everything with a grain of salt or whatever).

The Cell processor is nice, but all modern games are limited by the GPU (graphics processing unit; it's the heart of the video card). And unfortunately for the PS3, the Cell processor isn't all that great for GPU tasks.

Hell, even when it comes to processing power, the Cell processor flat out sucks compared to $50 graphics cards. Take a look at Folding@Home's client statistics:

http://fah-web.stanford.edu/cgi-bin/main.py?qtype=osstats

Even though the PS3 and Nvidia clients are producing roughly the same amount of teraflops, it's taking four times the number of PS3s to match Nvidia graphics cards in performance.

But back to the GPU limiting question: If the latest $1000+ multi-GPU solutions from Nvidia and ATI are holding back games on the PC (see the below benchmark for an example), then what do you think that says about the PS3's horribly outdated GPU?

Spoiler: Large image

Do you see where I'm going with this?

The PS3's Nvidia GPU is equivalent to an Nvidia 7-series card. If you aren't up to date with Nvidia's card lineage, it goes from:

7 series <- PS3
8 series
9 series
GT200 series <- Present

The saddest part? While there are obviously huge differences between the 7 series and the GT200 series, the truly massive difference is between the 7 and 8 series. With the 8 series, the differences with later series aren't anywhere nearly as drastic as it is between the 7 and 8 series.

Here's a synthetic benchmark which outlines how depressing it really must be to program for either the PS3 or Xbox 360:

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/gaming-graphics-charts-q3-2008/3DMark06-v1-1-0-3DMark-Score,794.html

There are plenty of real world benchmarks at the site if you want to really see the horrors.

And if both PC and Console developers have to worry about the same thing then.....wait, I don't get what you were saying there. What were you referencing there?

You still need to be able to develop a good way to scale down settings even if you are working with consoles.

Woo! Learning time! Unfortunately, I am pretty much a retard when it comes to computers (I know most things about PCs in general, but all those GFXModel15603987209827346 and seemingly random numbers confuse me) which is ironic since my dad works with computers, but nonetheless, question times.

You didn't respond to the "BELUH-RAY" portion of my post, but I'll assume it doesn't matter or that you didn't respond to it.

If you want to go on about the outdated GPU of the PS3, then if the PS4 comes out with one 'o them GT200 Series-es the PC would probably already be a couple of generations ahead and you'd be saying the same thing right now. Consoles are not meant to be upgraded every now and again, they are mainly set with a good set of specs to make it last until the next version of the console. I remember someone saying that they wanted to, quote "slap Sony and MS" because they were going on about how HD was a huge step in console but yet "It's been available to PCs forever douchebags!". News-freakin'-flash; HD for consoles is a good step for consoles. And HD was barely noticed until some consoles brought up HDMI and stuff.

This is an honest to good question, how many games on PC really truely utilized the 7 series GPUs? Like, did any game really use 100% of it's power or something? Or was it just tossed aside when the 8 series came along?

Basically, PC gaming is an exclusive club of the highest prestige! They have the finest shrimp, cocktails, and wine all rendered in High-High-Def! But it really takes alot of work just to get in the front entrace of the club. I'll assume you were like me once (god I hope so, you arn't SuperMan are you?), pretty much an ignorant bastard who didn't know to much about PCs. Eventually you got in the "know" and got in the club, and you were set for basically life. It takes so much effort to get into PCs for most people, and while I have no doubt in my mind that I will someday be a PC gamer (hopefully not elitist), I'd rather stick to a good simple time with consoles.

Jeez, I think I got off topic here didn't I?

 

[Bobkat1252]

I have the strongest desire to mess with that Sony site, such a shame they don't have forums...

I personally like the 360 but I have no qualms against the PS3 or the Wii. Seeing that site only made me angry, just as a 360 or Wii version of the site would as well. Why do people feel the need to be so childish about these things?

 

[Jumplion]

You didn't respond to the "BELUH-RAY" portion of my post, but I'll assume it doesn't matter or that you didn't respond to it.

1.Blu-Ray is something you can just as easily use in PCs, but I personally believe for PC gaming, it's completely pointless. As hard drives get even more dirt cheap and broadband internet becomes faster, digital distribution is going to become even more popular and widespread. And that's a fantastic thing.

If you want to go on about the outdated GPU of the PS3, then if the PS4 comes out with one 'o them GT200 Series-es the PC would probably already be a couple of generations ahead and you'd be saying the same thing right now. Consoles are not meant to be upgraded every now and again, they are mainly set with a good set of specs to make it last until the next version of the console.

6. And doesn't that strike you, being a consumer, as a bit of a terrible thing? Unlike console owners, PC builders find great and actually useful functions for their older machines such as a file server, home theater machine, part of a processing farm, or *gasp* another computer for someone else to use.

I remember someone saying that they wanted to, quote "slap Sony and MS" because they were going on about how HD was a huge step in console but yet "It's been available to PCs forever douchebags!". News-freakin'-flash; HD for consoles is a good step for consoles. And HD was barely noticed until some consoles brought up HDMI and stuff.

2.I'm not sure what you're saying about consoles bringing up HDMI and HD being barely noticed.

This is an honest to good question, how many games on PC really truely utilized the 7 series GPUs? Like, did any game really use 100% of it's power or something? Or was it just tossed aside when the 8 series came along?

3.Check out the benchmarks and you can see for yourself.

Basically, PC gaming is an exclusive club of the highest prestige! They have the finest shrimp, cocktails, and wine all rendered in High-High-Def! But it really takes alot of work just to get in the front entrace of the club.

*shrug*

4.It's about as expensive as the two "next-gen" systems and you can do a *lot* more on them than just game or watch movies. And it takes a hell of a lot less work and time than writing on an internet forum 2600 times

I'll assume you were like me once (god I hope so, you arn't SuperMan are you?), pretty much an ignorant bastard who didn't know to much about PCs. Eventually you got in the "know" and got in the club, and you were set for basically life. It takes so much effort to get into PCs for most people, and while I have no doubt in my mind that I will someday be a PC gamer (hopefully not elitist), I'd rather stick to a good simple time with consoles.

5.Except the era of having a good simple time with a console has long passed (which isn't necessarily a bad thing).

And I've owned, played, and loved a console for every generation since the Atari 2600. And it was only in the last 5 years that I have been building and gaming on computers. It really isn't a mutually exclusive thing.

I'd rather keep the quote stacks to a minimum (fills up the inbox), but anyways.

1. Nothing to argue there, but who knows how much space porn will take up in the future.

2. I think I'm talking in more of a personal level rather than a global level because I dully remember hearing something about HD or whatever. But that's just me, I'm probably way off on that so ignore that statement.

3. Like I said, those seemingly random numbers and capitol letters confuse me with PC gaming so my peanut sized brain got pretty much nothing from those graphs (PM me to clear it up if you want).

4. PCs can definately do more than consoles, no question. But I was meaning that it takes so much effort to first of all get in the "know" of PCs and PC gaming. Obviously everyone has to start somewhere, and some are faster learners than others, but if you're building your first PC by yourself then the second time around is going to be much easier for you and VIOLA! you're in the "know". Unfortunately, some of us arn't lucky enough to stumble across your PC Parts list (which I adore you for) and some communities/forums can be a bit more...hostile to newcomers.

5. Wii proves otherwise, but I get what you're saying. And this is pretty much how most PC gamers start nowadays, they play on consoles and gradually move up to PCs like I unquestionably will some day. It's the CCCCCIIIIIIIIIIIIIRRRRRRRCCCCCCLLLLLLEEEE OFFF LIIIIIIIIIFFFFEEEE!!!! [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX07j9SDFcc] It's like grades in elementary school to high school, start with something simple (wii) then move up to slightly harder (360) go to something more complicated (PS3) till finaly you're taking CALCULUS and SATs (PCs).

6. Like I said above, it's like grade school. However, in the case of the PS3 (and in some cases 360) consoles are becoming a bit more like PCs with internet browsers and a ton of downloadable games and the ability to watch movies.

Onward to a nice friendly debate!

 

[Bulletinmybrain]

I find it funny that PS360 owners rant and rave about their console sales and attach rates and who knows what else. When the Wii is kicking both their butts.

Over the weeked at my Target they sold 2 PS3s and 7 360s lol fanboys would jump at something like that.......... We sold 185 Wiis in those same 2 days. 185! . So question where are the Wii fanboys? Because I never here from them(around here at least)

That aside I just own a 360 cause its cheap and the online is great even if you have to pay 2 dollars a month for it.

There are very few hardcore wii fans. 98% or so are casual who could care less about fanboyism.

So the only real fight is between 360 and ps3 since they are functionally somewhatly similar. Both catering to the hardcore gamer.

 

[Canadianwookie]

"And it was said that Miyamoto's empire and his chosen people would fight their unholy enemies on the fields of console war, suffering many defeats and losses along the way. The once proud and mighty empire of the chosen gamers did fall into darkness, and evil ruled the land for a time. But in a last desperate move to reclaim the empire's former glory, the original core of loyal chosen gamers was sacrificed in a final battle, to be replaced by a much more numerous, and easily swayed peoples, the casuals. And it was said that the once proud empire of chosen gamers would rise again, more powerful than ever before, but it would be but a shell of its former glory, now that the true chosen gamers were gone."

The Prophet of the N- 1968

 

[jamesworkshop]

While I agree that the whole 'six month replacement' quote that often gets thrown around about PCs is ridiculous, pretty much everyone says they have a one or two year old computer as a testament to the amount of time they last before obsolecsence. Compare this to the eight year average life span of a 'console generation'.

I have a friend who is a perfect example off the PC crowd (in terms of diehard prederence). He claims that he is evidence that you don't need to update your computer once every six months. However, when asked what the most graphically powerful game is that he can run, he answers Half-Life 2. Which is a last generation game.

Well 5 years is far more close to the average lifespan of a console and don't get me wrong but a non upgraded computer wont last 5 years but consoles don't tremendously improve on graphics in 5 years time compared to how much of a jump the Pc can experience with an upgrade see (2004 farcry and 2007 crysis), I completed crysis(best graphics)on my 7900gtx which I got in mid 2006 and it only gots its replacement the 9800gtx back In april so about 2 years in between and i only got the 9800gtx because I got a £200 bonus from work like a week before and the 9800gtx fitted my situation perfectly since i skipped the 8 series.
Hardware depends on software and so far nothing is more demanding than crysis and that came out in november last year so you really don't need to upgrade every 6 months, hardware demanding games are quite rare on release because you won't make money if only 3 people worldwide can play it.
Once the new console is released the old one quickly becomes useless whereas pc only ever become too slow for the releases and normally only a new graphics card is needed look how long the pci-e bus has lasted all the way from the 6 series all the way to the GTX200.
Once Pc's become powerfull enought they start to emulate consoles extremly well and even with a usb bluetooth you can even use the Wii controller to play anygame and since pc ports are becoming more common since eclusivity is no longer profittable for game design you can get the same games as the consoles do and sometimes with better quailty or new features DMC4, GTA4 and even resident evil 5 have or are getting PC releases and no dobut they are big name console releases.
There are only 2 major downfalls of the PC world price and knowledge my computer is still rocking because it cost over £1500 to build intally and I knew what I was doing however my computer offers a lot more options since I have only dealt with gaming and not the other applications like far better internet access or money generating tasks since computers are vital in the modern world and the hadrware for a gaming computer means it has power for any other task like video edditing.

 

[Vampire_Hermes]

Coming from someone who is too poor to afford both (the Wii just doesn't do it for me, but that's personal preference) it all boiled down to which console had the majority of games I like or had the potential to like and that was the Xbox 360. I got nothing against the PS3 and I am green with envy over Little Big Planet, but I'll have to wait til I can afford one to partake of its goodness. In the meantime, there are too many other games I can enjoy.

This is pretty much my experience, though for one or two other PS3 games, rather than Little Big Planet. I miss a lot of the more cartoony, 'kiddy' games, like Mario and Smash Brothers, which I would love to play, but when I came to choose my console (just after the PS was delayed in Europe for the second time, I think), I was dissuaded from what I saw as the obvious choice: the PS3. I've been a Sony man since the beginning, but I found more games I wanted to play on the 360 than on the PS3. The only ones I were worried about were GTA and Tekken, I think. Now I have Saints Row 1 and 2 and Tekken is now multi-plat, as many things are now.

I just couldn't find a reason to buy the PS3 (not least for more money). And if I was making the decision today, I'd probably make the same one. I could probably count on on hand the number of games on the PS3 that I'm envious of. The Wii maybe a few more, and when I'm more flush I might have to think about it (unless Microsoft's plans to be more 'kiddy' friendly come to fruition.

I tend to play strategy and sim games on the PC, but I'm not willing to regularly update (even if I could afford it) so TheSims 3 is looking unlikely, and I loved the Civ:Rev demo, so that might be a lesser part of my gaming life.

...I'm pretty sure I had a point when I started typing. Anyway, that was my experience.

 

[adrenalinq]

I got all the consoles.

My wife plays Wii - not me, because this is a console for those who don't actually play games. I like hard games.

I got PS3 and it is all covered by dust. I prefer to play multiplatform on xbox because of achievements (yeah - dont underestimate munchkinism) and better network. Yes, sony got free but awful network. I cant say about all games but what I saw made me angry.
--Army of Two in cooperative has no headset support! And you cant even make a chat channel to talk!!! The best setting we did was with only one player talking.
--Bad Company is lagging like crazy with character teleporting often. And it has no headset support! Just think - no voice chat for online game! What a nice idea!
--Soul Calibur 4 does not have chat support during a fight! This is crazy! I mean what is wrong with that? On xbox I played with a guy who made something like Naruto and yelled different jutsus in headset on his attack - things like this are regular. And what about someone teaching you how to play and giving instructions during a fight? Is this impossible for awesome PS3 cell power?

About great games on Sony.
--I love Heavenly Sword. This is amazing game with awesome animation and outstanding level design. This game is a piece of art and it is a best game on PS3.
--I liked Ninja Gaiden Sigma even if NG Black is better. Even if the box says it is 1080p - game runs at 720p, however graphics is awesome and game has great replay value.
--Uncharted is amazingly polished game but it has serious problems with gunfights. They are boring... It is nice to kill stuff at first but repeat this 200 times and you will be bored to death. Still it is a cool game and worth owning.
--Lair. This game is like Ace Combat on dragons. The only thing that makes this game good but not awesome is lack of radar. Simple thing makes this game difficult to play. I like Lair and think that it is highly underrated.
--Time Crysis 4. This is the only game that has lightgun support for plasma and lcd tv. No matter what journalist idiots say, it is as good as previous TC2 and 3.
--MGS4... I have much to say about this game... It was the biggest disappointments in my entire life. I even started to think that something is wrong with my brain wen I played this overhyped piece of japaneese emo dogshit. Thank you Zero Punctuation - I feel that I am not alone.
--GT5. Will be nice single player game but for now it has shitty online.

XBOX 360.
I like achievements. Some of them make games much harder. I like headset support in all possible games. I play all multiplatform because of that.

xbox exclusives.
--Halo 3. I dont like this game. I find it a good for console multiplayer shooter but because I got PC, I can say - this game is shit.
--Ace Combat 6 is awesome game. It starts with quick disappointing mission but at mission 3 is becomes to suck you in. It has crazy big boss fights and nice online mode. I highly recommend it.
--Gears of War. Awesome. Period!
--Forza. Best online racing.

Sorry my bad english.

 

[Jumplion]

I got all the consoles. I got PS3 and it is all covered by dust. I prefer to play multiplatform on xbox because of achievements (yeah - dont underestimate munchkinism) and better network. Yes, sony got free but awful network.

Can you elaborate on this? I'm just curious, every time someone says that the PSN sucks they never actually elaborate on what made it sucky (to them atleast) and they go on about how the 360 has better online without elaborating on that. I have few problems with PSN, it doesn't lag to much for me but that's just personal.

 

[Asehujiko]

I agree with BUT while you can buy a decent PC for cheap, making a PC which will run games as smoothly as ps3/360 would cost you alot more than the console [and never really run as smoothly since windows is a pile of poo and crashes]. PC games are cheaper but usually buggy.

but if you have lots money, patience for windows and tech know-how PC really is the best. only thing it really fails at is "splitscreen" or offline multiplayer

I'm not sure where the idea came from that pcs are expensive. Alienware isn't the only brand of desktops. I can build a pc that runs better then a ps3 for $300. Which ober here is about $150 cheaper then said console. Pre-built computers = bad.

 

[Anton P. Nym]

Unlike console owners, PC builders find great and actually useful functions for their older machines such as a file server, home theater machine, part of a processing farm, or *gasp* another computer for someone else to use.

Many people still use their PS2s as DVD players even if they don't game... I suspect the same will happen with PS3s and Blu-Ray. The first-generation Xbox is a popular chassis for conversion into a media server given its native Dolby 5.1 support, most notably XBMC [http://xbmc.org/]. And many folks do hand down their old consoles to the kids, or to hobbyists looking to experiment with the parts, or donate them to charity.

There may be reasons to favour PCs, but none of the ones you mentioned in the quote above are valid.

-- Steve

 

[KSI Hellboy]

Bah consoles Pc's trump them in everyway
im willing to die for that belife so others may know the glory that is pc gaming!!!!FTW

I hate people like you.

 

[shatnershaman]

They'll eventually become computers which you can't do very much on or upgrade though.

They aren't now?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/computer

You could also just put Linux on the PS3.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_for_PlayStation_3

 

[Anton P. Nym]

They'll eventually become computers which you can't do very much on or upgrade though.

They aren't now?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/computer

You could also just put Linux on the PS3.

And you can pop in a new CPU, GPU, or more RAM whenever you please?

I can't do that on either my desktop (P4 3.1GHz with AGPx4) or my laptop (Celeron 900MHz and integrated graphics) at the moment either. So nanny-poo doody-head neenerneener pthbtbtbt.

-- Steve