Escape to the Movies: The Expendables

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Bat Vader

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If someone is going to see the Expendables and goes into it thinking it will have a good plot than they will be disappointed. The Expendables is not a film that is meant to have a good story or good characters. It is a film that is meant to be full of action and violence, nothing else.

I liked the Scott Pilgrim film. I thought it was really good. The video game references in it are excellent and it seemed to match the graphic novels pretty well. Yes, somethings were changed but it was still an excellent film. I dislike Michael Cera as an actor too but in Scott Pilgrim he was actually pretty decent in it.
 

Starke

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Outright Villainy said:
Wow, this thing has exploded! I mean, I think he went a bit far calling everyone sheep for liking the expendables, but the sheer nerd rage on both sides about their chosen film being the second coming of christ and the other being hellspawn itself is hilarious.
Stay classy guys.
Honestly, I'm mildly amused by the resulting dichotomy. We've got two groups (well, two relevant groups for this model) in this thread. People who are offended at being called sheep because they liked a film, and people who are certain they're not sheep because they are following Bob's opinion to the letter... The irony cracks me up.

Now, as for remaining civil? Yeah, you're right, people should. That some posters haven't can probably be directly attributed to Bob calling them horrible human beings in his video. I can only hope this will result in some fallout on Bob, not because he deserves it, or because I'm offended, but because his overall quality has been on the wain lately. We've had reviews that boiled down to him jerking off at the female lead. If he's going to improve someone on the editorial staff needs to kick him in the teeth and get him back on task before he gets unsalvageable.

EDIT: Ha! I found the "before" that escaped my sentence rewrite.
 

Outright Villainy

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Scrumpmonkey said:
Outright Villainy said:
Wow, this thing has exploded! I mean, I think he went a bit far calling everyone sheep for liking the expendables, but the sheer nerd rage on both sides about their chosen film being the second coming of christ and the other being hellspawn itself is hilarious.
Stay classy guys.
There is no real argument here. What are you people arguing about?! Yes Scot Pilgrim is a harder film to like for some people but for people who 'get it' it's a great film that can be easily misunderstood. It's not someones fault if they didn't like it, it's got quite a narrow window of people it will strike a real chord with.

That said it is deirected VERY well by the hugely talented Edgar Wright (See Hot Fuzz) and the expendables is a pretty limp movie. If you don't see a LOT of movies then the Expenables will seem like it's ok, it's only cinema buffs like bob who end up tearing their hair out because they see so much under the surface going wrong.

Personally i loved the asthetic, stlye and general premise of Scot Pilgrim becuase i kept thinking of the ball-tighteningly awesome no-more-heroes parales and making weird obtuce references with my nerd buddes. It's my kind of movie if it it's yours that fine. These are just two films some people will like and no like, No need for a falme-war.
Yeah, this has gotten way out of hand. I thought people would call out Movie bob for insulting someone for liking someting else, not do exactly the same thing. Both sides are just as bad for it. I honestly expected a lot better from the Escapist.
 

Outright Villainy

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Starke said:
Now, as for remaining civil? Yeah, you're right, people should. That some posters haven't can probably be directly attributed to Bob calling them horrible human beings in his video.
Oh, I think they have every right to be angry, but really it should be Bob himself they should go for. They're doing the exact same thing and saying Scott Pilgrim is a hipster douchebag film for hipsters. Combine that with your example and you have a double whammy of irony!

Edit: then there's the inexplicable posts saying people getting mad about being called sheep means they are sheep, or they wouldn't be defensive. I mean what? This wasn't some Yahtzee thing where he was doing it for the funny, Bob basically spent 5 minutes saying "Fuck you" to everyone who had the audacity to enjoy the film. I'd be pretty mad too.
 

Dorian Cornelius Jasper

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zHellas said:
HotFezz8 said:
do you not think there might be a reason this film is #1? do you not think there is a reason its made $35 hyperbazillion?
People are stupid? Usually...
Yeah, Expendables and Eat Pray Love are both below 40% on Rotten Tomatoes, but made huge amounts of money thanks to hype, marketing, and star power. These movies are lousy and everyone who was forced to watch them knows it, but there were a lot of people who bought in on the hype and paid actual money to watch something any reasonable person would have to be paid to watch.

Granted, I'd be perfectly fine with letting someone else pay money (for like a DVD or Blu-Ray disc) and wouldn't mind watching with. I'm only speaking as a customer with a budget, not a critic. And tickets are expensive.
 

Thyunda

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Well...that was a coincidence.
I stopped watching these reviews when he basically cried about Revenge of the Fallen not being G1.
So now I see this review...I figured, hell, it's been a while, maybe he's gonna be funny...or review the film for once.
Within the first two minutes, he criticises Revenge of the Fallen.
What the hell, Moviebob? I'm sure you remember our little argument on how ROTF didn't suck, and if I wasn't so insignificant, I'd have thought you'd put that in just for a dig at me.
Just so you know, I closed the video after that little bit. Yahtzee gets away with telling me my taste in videogames sucks, because he's funny. I can watch his reviews and go 'ha-ha, he's got a point. But he's exaggerating for the sake of comedy'.
You, on the other hand...I really don't know what to call you. I don't want to get myself banned by making you cry or anything. Maybe I can compare you to Yahtzee. Like, if he interrupted Comicon or something to deliver an unfunny tirade. Sometimes, I get the feeling that's exactly what you're trying to achieve.

Now, somebody, please tell me about a review where he actually reviewed a film, rather than insult it. I'm serious. I do want to see a movie review, I genuinely do, but I'm not prepared to listen to this joker rant about infinitesimal flaws in generally good films, like, say, dislike of robot designs, or getting upset by the (admittedly unfunny) placement of wrecking balls.
 

johnman

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SamStar42 said:
Look, Bob. I've defended you more than I need have, you're probably one of my favourite movie critics but please, for the love of God, accept that not every movie has to be this artistic piece, with amazing acting, original set pieces and have an important message behind them. Some movies are just meant to be enjoyable to sit through. Salt was this and you appeared to like that even if there were two reasons attached to Jolie that probably helped your opinion along the way.

And please, stop stating that everyone who likes a movie you don't is worthless. Transformers, Book of Eli, and now Expendables - some people just like to sit through a movie that's brainless. Whilst they're not that good, stating that everyone who likes them is pretty much wrong is just arrogant and pretentious.

Not everyone who likes bad action movies is this douchebag frat boy, who can't tell the difference between an etch-a-sketch and a Da Vinci. Just accept that occasionally people don't see things the way you do, because you're starting to become insufferable.
Watch his reviews of G.I joe and the A-team (You probably have already), he agrees with you completely, he must of just found somthing he really didn't like in this film
 

Starke

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Scrumpmonkey said:
it's only cinema buffs like bob who end up tearing their hair out because they see so much under the surface going wrong.
Except Bob isn't a film buff. He doesn't have the breadth of experience to qualify for that moniker. A film buff wouldn't post about the virtues of Pirahna 3D[footnote]Unless it blows everyone out of the water, and comes out of nowhere, but somehow I suspect it's aiming for the low 40s metacritic score.[/footnote]. A film buff wouldn't label Beneath the Planet of the Apes as mandatory film viewership, or forget about the existence of directors like Kurosawa and Hitchcock when compiling a list of must see films.

He isn't a film buff, and that's sort of been his shtick, he's not, he doesn't claim to be, and he doesn't want to be. What he is, is learning why reviewing films for a living isn't really that great a job. Because you have to watch everything.

Now, my gripe is he's failing at professionalism, which is a much more egregious error, and one that I hope he can rectify. Because, in spite of how much he's gotten on my nerves lately, I don't think he deserves to be out on his ass over this, but he does need to tone down and clean up his work. Turn it back into a review video rather than playing to his own... whatever... "fixations."
Outright Villainy said:
Starke said:
Now, as for remaining civil? Yeah, you're right, people should. That some posters haven't can probably be directly attributed to Bob calling them horrible human beings in his video.
Oh, I think they have every right to be angry, but really it should be Bob himself they should go for. They're doing the exact same thing and saying Scott Pilgrim is a hipster douchebag film for hipsters. Combine that with your example and you have a double whammy of irony!
I kinda picked up on that, but good catch. In general though, this thread has turned nasty, when it really needs people to step back and clinically evaluate what's wrong here.
 

Hazelwolf

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Wow. This thread is getting beyond the point of the ridiculous. For people who resent being called sheep there sure is a whole lot of bleating from both sides of the pasture.
"Baa MovieBob is teh worst baa, he's a hypocrite, he doesn't know how to review"
"Baa Expendables sucks, you suck for liking it baa, Scott Pilgrim is the best evar"

Ok, childishness aside they're just movies and this is just a movie review on the net. So Bob happened to lace this one with a good dose of negativity, it's his right, it's his show and if you generally share his viewpoint on movies then he has given you a good idea of what you'd take away from this film. Similarly if you happened to hate Splice and thought District 9 was overrated and you liked this film, fine, whatever, call Bob a hipster douche and move on and don't pay attention to his opinion.

So he called you a sheep by proxy of going on opening weekend. Well, guess what. We're all sheep. You just happened to run with the bigger flock when it came to this particular distraction device while they sheared your wallets.
And so the Expendables did better than Scott Pilgrim. Well what did you expect? People like what they already know and for all it's vaunted brilliance SP definitely has a specific target audience that, while not necessary niche anymore, is still small compared to the action movie market. You can't judge the quality of a movie by its opening weekend (Xmen Origins: Wolverine anyone?) and if Pilgrim really is the better film it will win out in the end.

There is no such thing as an unbiased critic as each review will be coloured by the critic's own preferences and turn-offs. So the idea that this can't possibly be a fair review is obvious. Of course it's not fair. It's one person's opinion. You may share it or you may not but don't ***** about it. What's he gonna do, turn around and amend it next week so you needn't feel bad that someone on the internet said something you didn't like? Two words: Mailbag Showdown (or is that four?) If you really need confirmation from a critic that something you watched was good then you need to question whether you're capable of deciding anything for yourself at all.

I've seen neither movie yet; Scott Pilgrim is definitely on my list purely based on Edgar Wright and my love of his previous films. And I think I'll save the expendables for a rental further down the line just to see what the hell it is that could inspire so much raeg, which is a bigger sell to me now than some recycled action ensemble ever would have been.
 

Starke

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johnman said:
SamStar42 said:
Look, Bob. I've defended you more than I need have, you're probably one of my favourite movie critics but please, for the love of God, accept that not every movie has to be this artistic piece, with amazing acting, original set pieces and have an important message behind them. Some movies are just meant to be enjoyable to sit through. Salt was this and you appeared to like that even if there were two reasons attached to Jolie that probably helped your opinion along the way.

And please, stop stating that everyone who likes a movie you don't is worthless. Transformers, Book of Eli, and now Expendables - some people just like to sit through a movie that's brainless. Whilst they're not that good, stating that everyone who likes them is pretty much wrong is just arrogant and pretentious.

Not everyone who likes bad action movies is this douchebag frat boy, who can't tell the difference between an etch-a-sketch and a Da Vinci. Just accept that occasionally people don't see things the way you do, because you're starting to become insufferable.
Watch his reviews of G.I joe and the A-team (You probably have already), he agrees with you completely, he must of just found somthing he really didn't like in this film
The thing that I can't reconcile at all is, he begins the review by gloating. So... why, or at whom? I mean, if his idea is to compile a fair review that has no place. The only way gloating works is if he had it in his mind before he went to the showing that this would be a bad film, and he wanted it to be a bad film. Now, if your reviewer has decided a film is bad before watching it, what will result, invariably will be no impartiality on their part, and that, I suspect, is what we've got.

I've little doubt that this is a bad film, but the review is worse because it doesn't tell us why it's a bad film.
 

Outright Villainy

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Starke said:
Now, my gripe is he's failing at professionalism, which is a much more egregious error, and one that I hope he can rectify. Because, in spite of how much he's gotten on my nerves lately, I don't think he deserves to be out on his ass over this, but he does need to tone down and clean up his work. Turn it back into a review video rather than playing to his own... whatever... "fixations."
Actually, you're bringing up a good point that's always bugged me about him, he acts like a total fanboy sometimes. He's always ripping on Halo for one thing, or whenever something he liked from the 80's is getting remade he uses this deep voice... thing, that's just narmtastic. [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Narm]

But he often makes good points (more so on the game overthinker side) about gamers being too defensive and not acknowledging what's wrong with gaming, things like that, which I always like to hear and think about or discuss. He's kinda infuriating like that.
 

Hazelwolf

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Starke said:
The thing that I can't reconcile at all is, he begins the review by gloating. So... why, or at whom? I mean, if his idea is to compile a fair review that has no place. The only way gloating works is if he had it in his mind before he went to the showing that this would be a bad film, and he wanted it to be a bad film
Or it could simply be him demonstrating a simple comedic bait and switch. Showing you what he would have wanted from a film with the Expendable's premise but then demonstrating that that is what he didn't get (at least not from Expendables)

Whether Bob hated it from the outset we can't tell from the review. He isn't saying this on the fly having just seen it. He's had to sit down and plan out how the piece should flow and be presented which allows him to reassess and present his opinion. I wouldn't be surprised if he was cynical from the outset but he's given examples in the past of films he thought he'd hate but didn't. Why should this be any different.

If anything I get the impression he would have wanted to like it, he would have loved for it to be a big stupid homage to big stupid 80's flicks. Instead it left him cold with his cynicism confirmed. I imagine that feeling of betrayal would leave you angrier than if it had just been a plain bad movie from the get-go.
 

Bruce Edwards

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I've been wondering why I was so affected by Movie Bobs' review. Normally I'm not. Usually I find his reviews, at the very least, entertaining and generally I agree with him.

I guess in this case it is because Moviebob has shown himself to be, at the most, wildly inconsistent.

See, hearken back to his Daybreakers review. He said it wasn't a great movie by any means, but it had (a) Willem Dafoe with a Crossbow, hunting Vampires, and (b) an interesting premise. On that basis he recommended it.

So I saw Daybreakers and agreed with his assessment. Overall it was a weak film, with a script that needed a lot of extra work and an end that didn't quite work, but Willem Dafoe + Crossbow = Ultimately worth seeing.

Now, the Expendables comes along and trades on this dynamic. A lot. An average-to-bad film staffed with guys I love to watch like Jet Li, Dolph Lundgren, Terry Crewes etc. are all in this film.

I guess I was expecting a review more along the lines of 'Not the greatest film, but This Cast + Big Guns = Worth Seeing'. Or at least 'This Cast + Big Guns, sorry still not worth seeing.' Rather than 'Never see this film ever, if you do you are an idiot sheeple who deserves what you get.'

So, yeah, Moviebob. My man love for you has, unfortunatetly, died. We both love the idea of Willem Dafoe with a crossbow, but apparently only I love the idea of Dolf Lundgren and Jet Li fighting.
 

Badassassin

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TBH I really didn't wanna see it anyway... but this whole discussion is making me wonder if Bob gave it a fair chance (although, I'm still not going to see it. I thought it looked worthless before Bob said so). It just seems like he threw a tantrum because someone ruined one of his favorite childhood toys.
 

Aptspire

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well, I never liked purely-action and nothing else movies so I was gonna skip this one anyway :p
 

Starke

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Hazelwolf said:
Starke said:
The thing that I can't reconcile at all is, he begins the review by gloating. So... why, or at whom? I mean, if his idea is to compile a fair review that has no place. The only way gloating works is if he had it in his mind before he went to the showing that this would be a bad film, and he wanted it to be a bad film
Or it could simply be him demonstrating a simple comedic bait and switch.
Which could have worked if any of the rest of the review was comedic. Instead the tone of the video waffles between condescending (towards the film and anyone who likes it) and complaints that border on fanboyish whining.
Hazelwolf said:
Showing you what he would have wanted from a film with the Expendable's premise but then demonstrating that that is what he didn't get (at least not from Expendables)

Whether Bob hated it from the outset we can't tell from the review.
Except, you already demonstrated that you do know what he wanted (or at the very least that he wanted something specific). He flat out tells you in the first few minutes. Now, his phrasing is a bit off, but the assumption you made in your first paragraph is almost certainly spot on. It tells us he walked into the theater with a preconceived notion of what this film would be. The only thing I can't tell you is, if his crucifying the film is because it was exactly what he expected, and wanted to hate it from the onset, or if his verbal rampage was because it didn't cross an invisible threshold in Bob's head.
Hazelwolf said:
He isn't saying this on the fly having just seen it. He's had to sit down and plan out how the piece should flow and be presented which allows him to reassess and present his opinion.
To be fair, this is basically how writing any review works.

On the chance that you've never written a film review before, basically here's what you need to do:

a. Watch the film. (I don't, but, many find it useful to take notes during this viewing, for reference later. (Personally, I tend to find I'll outline the film, and end up with nothing really usable for the review.))
b. Wait ~24 hours. (You can abbreviate this somewhat once you've been writing reviews for a few years, but generally you need this time to let the film seep in.)
c. Write the review. (The following are guidelines for a 500 word newspaper review article.)

1) Spend a paragraph writing about the film as an overall. Basically in one hundred words, sum up the plot. Now, if you're dealing with a film like Inception filling this space up without spoiling the plot of the movie can be really tricky.

2) Spend a paragraph or two talking about the technical aspects. This can include actors' performances, cinematography, lighting, sound direction. Generally you want to avoid direction as a whole until you have some experience under your belt. (Now, strictly speaking this is the aspect of a review you cannot fake. You need training in some form of media analysis or production, otherwise how to write this will simply elude you.)

3) If you have any lingering thematic issues that you feel should be addressed in the review, they shouldn't exceed a one hundred word paragraph. Any analysis of the film itself should usually be dealt with here, and can extend the length of the paragraph (space permitting).

4) Under no circumstances should you use terms like "like", "enjoy" or similar subjective assessments. If you liked or enjoyed the film as a whole, that isn't good enough, explain why, preferably in the context of #2 and #3.

At the end of all of this you should have a 450 to 500 word article that will offer an objective analysis of the film itself.

Hazelwolf said:
I wouldn't be surprised if he was cynical from the outset but he's given examples in the past of films he thought he'd hate but didn't. Why should this be any different.?
Ideally? It shouldn't. In practice however, this is.

Now, there's room for a discussion on if he actually hated the film walking in, or wanted to hate it, or chose to open it with a tone that suggested that he did. But given that the review offers no legitimate critiques to the film's quality (on it's own merit), that implies that he walked into the theater with a checklist of things he expected would go wrong with the film, and simply ticked them off in his head as the film played. This starts to explain his assertion that the film isn't gory enough or that there are no memorable deaths, when other non-reviewers can counter with specific counterexamples. In a review, when the reviewer is describing things that don't sync up with the film, it can often, accurately be attributed to the reviewer's own preconceptions and biases.
Hazelwolf said:
If anything I get the impression he would have wanted to like it, he would have loved for it to be a big stupid homage to big stupid 80's flicks. Instead it left him cold with his cynicism confirmed. I imagine that feeling of betrayal would leave you angrier than if it had just been a plain bad movie from the get-go.
Well, that, in a 62 words is what bothers me about Bioshock. But, that doesn't mean I can't write a legitimate review of it. However, as a reviewer, being able to parse that out and address it in a review, particularly a hostile one, like this, is an absolutely critical skill. Which seems to be lacking here.
 

Starke

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Bruce Edwards said:
So, yeah, Moviebob. My man love for you has, unfortunatetly, died. We both love the idea of Willem Dafoe with a crossbow, but apparently only I love the idea of Dolf Lundgren and Jet Li fighting.
Poor Dolf, he never stood a chance... :(

Yeah, my fondness for Bob took one in the head and two to the chest about the time he was (verbally) beating off to Salt.
 

Starke

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Outright Villainy said:
Starke said:
Now, my gripe is he's failing at professionalism, which is a much more egregious error, and one that I hope he can rectify. Because, in spite of how much he's gotten on my nerves lately, I don't think he deserves to be out on his ass over this, but he does need to tone down and clean up his work. Turn it back into a review video rather than playing to his own... whatever... "fixations."
Actually, you're bringing up a good point that's always bugged me about him, he acts like a total fanboy sometimes. He's always ripping on Halo for one thing, or whenever something he liked from the 80's is getting remade he uses this deep voice... thing, that's just narmtastic. [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Narm]

But he often makes good points (more so on the game overthinker side) about gamers being too defensive and not acknowledging what's wrong with gaming, things like that, which I always like to hear and think about or discuss. He's kinda infuriating like that.
I think, indirectly the dissection of Hazelwolf a minute ago, has some relevance to your comments as well. Bob isn't, and never has been a professional reviewer. If you want to be cynical, just look at his Nerd movie bible; which is an utter wreck of missed films and poor suggestions.

I mean he seriously says; if you're a nerd you must see Star Trek III: The Search for Spock. The problem is III is a terrible film, sandwiched between an excellent film, and a film that deserves acknowledgment for being the closest the film franchise ever got to the goofiness of the original series. Beyond creating continuity from a (probably legitimate) must see and a (for fans only), it shouldn't be on the list. His Hammer Horror, Planet of the Apes and Universal Monster suggestions all also contain similar wastes of time. [/rant]

Now, can he be a reviewer? Maybe? Every review like this or Salt, or even Iron Man 2 makes me a little more cynical on that front. Sorry, the rant distracted me and screwed up what I had for a conclusion. :(
 

JayDig

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Still my favorite movie reviewer. I like it when he has a strong opinion about something, even if I disagree.

I guess people REALLY don't like being called sheep. Let's get Bob's next video up to 1000 comments!
Fuck Yatzhee. he's not offensive enough! :)