Escape to the Movies: The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo
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Hi, Swede here.
*FilmBob
Never use google translate, there had to have been an other way!
Also, loved hearing you butcher the Swedish names.
I take offence when most (non-Swedish) actors try to do Swedish accents. It's not that they do it badly, I get that, it's a very hard language to pronounce if you're used to English. It's just they seem to try to mimic Swedish chef and IKEA furniture names more than the actual language, which is nothing like it. It will be very interesting to see how they do it in this movie.
But the big question for me is: Why even bother? It's already jarring for them to speak English in the first place, but it's easy to cover under suspension of disbelief. It's just stupid to hear them speak broken English that's not only hard to understand, but possibly downright offensive to the people that actually speak the language they're trying to mimic. It breaks the immersion they're trying to enforce with it.
I also want to say that I'm aware of the hypocrisy. A lot of Swedes (at least over 30) have horrible English accents. It's tragically hilarious sometimes. But that once again begs the question of why even try to copy it, when even most Swedes hate it.
*FilmBob
Never use google translate, there had to have been an other way!
Also, loved hearing you butcher the Swedish names.
I take offence when most (non-Swedish) actors try to do Swedish accents. It's not that they do it badly, I get that, it's a very hard language to pronounce if you're used to English. It's just they seem to try to mimic Swedish chef and IKEA furniture names more than the actual language, which is nothing like it. It will be very interesting to see how they do it in this movie.
But the big question for me is: Why even bother? It's already jarring for them to speak English in the first place, but it's easy to cover under suspension of disbelief. It's just stupid to hear them speak broken English that's not only hard to understand, but possibly downright offensive to the people that actually speak the language they're trying to mimic. It breaks the immersion they're trying to enforce with it.
I also want to say that I'm aware of the hypocrisy. A lot of Swedes (at least over 30) have horrible English accents. It's tragically hilarious sometimes. But that once again begs the question of why even try to copy it, when even most Swedes hate it.
Daniel Craig kept his English accent because that's how Swedes who are good at speaking English sound & there's lots of accents in the movie so it doesn't matter. [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-16110375] :/ Not that it does matter.
Does the film cut out some of the more egregious cases of author-insertion like the Swedish ones did? I can deal with an author getting off on writing about his imagined self, but dear lord this book took it to some pretty special levels. Hopefully the film does well enough to get the sequels made, though, as the books get better (& even absurder) once Salander becomes the main character.
Does the film cut out some of the more egregious cases of author-insertion like the Swedish ones did? I can deal with an author getting off on writing about his imagined self, but dear lord this book took it to some pretty special levels. Hopefully the film does well enough to get the sequels made, though, as the books get better (& even absurder) once Salander becomes the main character.
if anyone want to know, Stieg Larsson was planing 10 books and died when he was half way through book 4. also the Swedish name on the first book is män som hatar kvinnor (Men Who Hate Women). I don't know way I wright this, maybe someone is interested.
I have to say that listening to Movie Bob being all snooty about conventional murder mysteries as a genre struck me as a bit odd. How would he feel about someone saying that superhero movies are fundamentally lightweight and a bit of a waste of time for top-tier directors?
It would appear that I'm a rather distinct minority here.
I've never read the book, nor have I had much of a desire to, but I loved (no, really, LOVED) this movie.
I found the directing and acting all around to be amazing, specifically Mara's performance.
But beyond the movie itself, for me, this really cemented Fincher as an auteur. Nobody else could have given the rape scene as much of a horrifying atmosphere, and the revenge scene following is nothing short of jarring. And the whole way through, I saw Fincher behind the camera.
EDIT:
Also, am I alone in feeling that a lot of his criticism of both the movie and the story it's based on seem contradictory to what he says about it in the "Look Ahead" episode a few months back? He says in that video that this movie is "innocent until proven guilty" because of Fincher directing it, but then in this, he almost belittles Fincher for even picking it up because of the source material.
I dunno, it struck me as odd.
I've never read the book, nor have I had much of a desire to, but I loved (no, really, LOVED) this movie.
I found the directing and acting all around to be amazing, specifically Mara's performance.
But beyond the movie itself, for me, this really cemented Fincher as an auteur. Nobody else could have given the rape scene as much of a horrifying atmosphere, and the revenge scene following is nothing short of jarring. And the whole way through, I saw Fincher behind the camera.
EDIT:
Also, am I alone in feeling that a lot of his criticism of both the movie and the story it's based on seem contradictory to what he says about it in the "Look Ahead" episode a few months back? He says in that video that this movie is "innocent until proven guilty" because of Fincher directing it, but then in this, he almost belittles Fincher for even picking it up because of the source material.
I dunno, it struck me as odd.
I get the strong feeling this was remade mainly due to average american's inability to watch a movie with subtitles. Point is they should just read more often. The original was better.
Rights sold to MGM before the terrible (2nd & 3rd were television productions!) Swede versions were crapped out. So, your feeling is wrong. But thanks for playing.iNsaneMilesy said:
And a generic new year's sentiment to you too, Bob!
The book was really badly paced and it took me a couple of tries to really get into it, but once I did I found the characters quite compelling, at least enough for me to read the whole trilogy. I'm sure that had the book truly featured the sort of poor storyline and flimsy characters that Bob is touting, then it would not have had that sort of effect on me.
Yeah this surprised me as well. I felt a certain amount of underlying venom in this review, almost as if Movie Bob has some sort of issue with the source material. Half his comments were really about the storyline, which is a critism of the book really, not the movie itself.Zamn said:
The book was really badly paced and it took me a couple of tries to really get into it, but once I did I found the characters quite compelling, at least enough for me to read the whole trilogy. I'm sure that had the book truly featured the sort of poor storyline and flimsy characters that Bob is touting, then it would not have had that sort of effect on me.
Yes.iNsaneMilesy said:
Did you even watch the Swedish versions? On what exactly do you base such condemnation? Besides, television productions and movie productions in Sweden are more or less one and the same. Yellow Bird, a company founded by Henning Mankell himself, made both series' of his own Wallander, each episode was classed as a "film". Yellow bird were also responsible for Stieg Larsson's Millenium Trilogy too. I have rarely watched anything so compelling outside my native language and I found nothing terrible about any aspect of their productions.Mister Linton said:
I've never been too much of a fan of the books or the films, but I do have to say that the American version looks very well done at the seams. It wasn't much to work with, but they gave it their best. And I do like that they chose to keep it set where it was, instead of transplanting it to... New Mexico or something (lawl).
And I think I agree, Salander comes off as more of a human being, rather than some punk-styled assassination-droid. Again, not much to work with, but well done none the same.
Oh, and as another Swede, Bob... Yes, your pronounciation of Mikael Blomquist and Stieg Larsson made my ears fold together in a cringe, but you can't help it, and at least you tried. <3
Although I can't for the life of me imagine how... Awful the actual movie must sound. Beyond people like Max von Sydow, the general Swedish-English accent is, to put it mildly, abominable. I just don't understand why anyone would want to hear it.
I believe when Skarsgård was casted in True Blood (and proved, to my surprise, to be the highlight of that thing...), they tried to have him speak this thick, made-up Swenglish accent for some extra exoticism-points, but thankfully, he refused. Instead, he speaks Swedish here now and then. A bit jarring, but better than nothing.
"Oh, Mr Undead Vampire Viking Dude (Who runs an undead speak-easy, more or less), I'm impressed as how quickly you've learnt modern-day Swedish, there!"
Honestly, favourite moment in A Clockwork Orange? Alex reaping what he's sown, bigtime. The climax of Dead Man Walking? I was almost breaking out the champagne and partyhats. Of course, it could just be me, and I suppose it makes me a bit less of a good person, but... Revenge-stories are sweet.
Oh, and furthermore... The rest of the world, a new-years resolution, perhaps? Try reading more. Subtitles isn't a problem at all once you get used to it. Just a thought? Pwetty pweese? :3
And I think I agree, Salander comes off as more of a human being, rather than some punk-styled assassination-droid. Again, not much to work with, but well done none the same.
Oh, and as another Swede, Bob... Yes, your pronounciation of Mikael Blomquist and Stieg Larsson made my ears fold together in a cringe, but you can't help it, and at least you tried. <3
Although I can't for the life of me imagine how... Awful the actual movie must sound. Beyond people like Max von Sydow, the general Swedish-English accent is, to put it mildly, abominable. I just don't understand why anyone would want to hear it.
I believe when Skarsgård was casted in True Blood (and proved, to my surprise, to be the highlight of that thing...), they tried to have him speak this thick, made-up Swenglish accent for some extra exoticism-points, but thankfully, he refused. Instead, he speaks Swedish here now and then. A bit jarring, but better than nothing.
"Oh, Mr Undead Vampire Viking Dude (Who runs an undead speak-easy, more or less), I'm impressed as how quickly you've learnt modern-day Swedish, there!"
I know how they must have felt, I'm not too big a fan of that myself... However, it makes the inevitable retribution-scene feel all the more sweeter.Mcoffey said:
Honestly, favourite moment in A Clockwork Orange? Alex reaping what he's sown, bigtime. The climax of Dead Man Walking? I was almost breaking out the champagne and partyhats. Of course, it could just be me, and I suppose it makes me a bit less of a good person, but... Revenge-stories are sweet.
Oh, and furthermore... The rest of the world, a new-years resolution, perhaps? Try reading more. Subtitles isn't a problem at all once you get used to it. Just a thought? Pwetty pweese? :3
Happy New Year, Bob
I have seen both and I like the Swedish version better. I have a thing for European movies (yes, Europe does include Britain so I will not mention them separately) as the source material seems grittier at a personal level: characters are flawed, the "hero" is not so much a hero but a reluctant participant in events beyond their control, there is limited use of deus ex machina, etc.
I love to be entertained by Hollywood... but at the end of the day it is nothing but McMuffins
I have seen both and I like the Swedish version better. I have a thing for European movies (yes, Europe does include Britain so I will not mention them separately) as the source material seems grittier at a personal level: characters are flawed, the "hero" is not so much a hero but a reluctant participant in events beyond their control, there is limited use of deus ex machina, etc.
I love to be entertained by Hollywood... but at the end of the day it is nothing but McMuffins
Didnt give much time on that spoiler in there bob, didnt have time to reach for the mouse to skip.
But still, I've been hoping this was good, its as close as I'm going to get this year to Craig in a slightly goingafterthebadguyinaslightconspiracysecretiveandpossiblyviolentway this side of 007 Skyfall.
But still, I've been hoping this was good, its as close as I'm going to get this year to Craig in a slightly goingafterthebadguyinaslightconspiracysecretiveandpossiblyviolentway this side of 007 Skyfall.
I've read the books but seen neither film. Given the brief summary you gave of film 1 Salander vs 2, film 2 definitely has the character down better.
One of my biggest problem with the book was Blomkvist though. What person can be attracted to damaged and vulnerable Salander, the competent and businesslike extended relationship woman and she-Hulk? They are completely different personalities, meaning Blomkvist has no preference meaning he has no personality. He is bland in the books too, not just the film.
One of my biggest problem with the book was Blomkvist though. What person can be attracted to damaged and vulnerable Salander, the competent and businesslike extended relationship woman and she-Hulk? They are completely different personalities, meaning Blomkvist has no preference meaning he has no personality. He is bland in the books too, not just the film.
I thought this was a very good film, I enjoyed it alot, though it did feel like it was dragging on a bit towards the end.
The book is a ridiculous popcorn-blockbuster crime drama but I object to Larsson being compared to Dan Brown. I just... do...
Sounds like Mara's Salander is closer to the book version than Rapace's, who came across as an invulnerable butt-kicking social outcast robot. Not that it really makes all that much of a difference I suppose. The Millenium Trilogy is largely about vengeance with Salander being the key vehicle for this, as long as she fulfills this role it's the right character.
Any consensus as to why this required an American re-make? No? Yeah, there never seems to be.
Sounds like Mara's Salander is closer to the book version than Rapace's, who came across as an invulnerable butt-kicking social outcast robot. Not that it really makes all that much of a difference I suppose. The Millenium Trilogy is largely about vengeance with Salander being the key vehicle for this, as long as she fulfills this role it's the right character.
Any consensus as to why this required an American re-make? No? Yeah, there never seems to be.