Expectations, Relationships, Sex, Thoughts?

[craftomega]

This is going to be a controversial topic, but it?s just something I want to put out there as just a thought.

There have been many arguments that the common viewing of pornography can put unreasonable expectations on women, and that men who want healthy relationships should not view any sort of porn.

http://artofmanliness.com/2009/05/11/the-problem-with-porn/
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/all-about-sex/201207/the-real-problem-porn-its-bad-sex

I would post more, but I think that this is not new and should be common knowledge (Not that porn is bad, but many people think it is.)

So here is my question. Are these expectations unreasonable?

And here is why I ask. We always have expectations in a relationship when it comes to sex, for some its that you have to have it after a certain amount of time (3rd date, marriage, ect...), by how you feel about a person, or because you just like it way too much. These expectations have been around for centuries; in the renaissance and medieval times it was expected for men to marry young girls (14-18). Because of many religions it was expected that you only have sex after marriage. In roman and Greek times, If a women was larger, and had fair skin should was considered to be very attractive, whereas now the general consensus is that the skinnier the better. So can we blame porn for this? Or is it culture? (Again I could post many more examples but I hope you get the picture.)

While I agree with the basic premise that porn just shifts men?s perspective and does lead them to have very high expectations, how is this unusual from what it has been like in the past?

What I am getting it in summery is that there have always been expectations from your partner when it comes to sex, how can we judge what is unreasonable, when those expectations are always changing and are people just using porn as a scapegoat?


Note: This is not my personal belief but just a thought I had.

 

[TheRightToArmBears]

Herp derp double comment.

 

[TheRightToArmBears]

Any expectations on anyone will always fuck you over. I may sound misanthropic right now, but any relationship stuff I've ever had anything to do with ends with you being completely fucked over. Don't blame porn, blame people, they're all dicks when it serves them.

 

[Uszi]

This is going to be a controversial topic, but it?s just something I want to put out there as just a thought.

There have been many arguments that the common viewing of pornography can put unreasonable expectations on women, and that men who want healthy relationships should not view any sort of porn.

http://artofmanliness.com/2009/05/11/the-problem-with-porn/
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/all-about-sex/201207/the-real-problem-porn-its-bad-sex

I would post more, but I think that this is not new and should be common knowledge (Not that porn is bad, but many people think it is.)

So here is my question. Are these expectations unreasonable?

And here is why I ask. We always have expectations in a relationship when it comes to sex, for some its that you have to have it after a certain amount of time (3rd date, marriage, ect...), by how you feel about a person, or because you just like it way too much. These expectations have been around for centuries; in the renaissance and medieval times it was expected for men to marry young girls (14-18). Because of many religions it was expected that you only have sex after marriage. In roman and Greek times, If a women was larger, and had fair skin should was considered to be very attractive, whereas now the general consensus is that the skinnier the better. So can we blame porn for this? Or is it culture? (Again I could post many more examples but I hope you get the picture.)

While I agree with the basic premise that porn just shifts men?s perspective and does lead them to have very high expectations, how is this unusual from what it has been like in the past?

What I am getting it in summery is that there have always been expectations from your partner when it comes to sex, how can we judge what is unreasonable, when those expectations are always changing and are people just using porn as a scapegoat?


Note: This is not my personal belief but just a thought I had.

Bleh, I'm not sure exactly what we're addressing here. I don't think pornography has any interaction with dating or ideal body image. The bodies in porn have always reflected, not shaped, what is considered sexy: one only has to look at weird, hairy 80s porn to see this is true. I don't see how it affects dating, either. People date for relationships and for love, and they date for sex. And they've always done that, and they'll do that regardless of how much porn they're viewing.

Now, I can see porn leading to different expectations about how long sex should last or which acts should be performed or how much someone should enjoy it or how people should behave, and I can see it potentially causing people to eschew monogamous relationships, maybe.

In the end, I think it's because we try to keep porn out of people's hands instead of teaching people about it. If you realize that porn is fictional, the people are actors, and they're playing out idealized and absurd scenarios, then I think it influences one's views on sex very little.

I think the only thing that one could actually translate into real, workable knowledge from porn is how to preform oral sex properly. I think that most of the rest of it is bullshit, fine to fap to, but definitely something that should involve conversations with your partner before trying and certainly not something you should innately expect or consider par for the course.

 

[StriderShinryu]

I think it's best to realize that there are going to be expectations, on both your side and that of your partner, but that when other people are involved you're going to have to consider that reality will always trump expectations.. and this is for the good and bad. In my experience, being with someone you really care about is a better experience than any movie I've watched. It's messy and it's funny, but it's real.

I think porn is one of those things that tends to bend expectations more if you're viewing it from outside of real experience. Once you've actually had sex, particularly if you're in a relationship, it becomes pretty obvious just how much of a joke porn is. Sure it can be titillating and enjoyable to watch, but it's also patently fake. I do think there are some very targeted questions that revolve around pornography, but I think it's relation to expectations is rather overblown.

 

[Uszi]

Any expectations on anyone will always fuck you over. I may sound misanthropic right now, but any relationship stuff I've ever had anything to do with ends with you being completely fucked over. Don't blame porn, blame people, they're all dicks when it serves them.

That doesn't seem misanthropic to me.

Expectations, in the sense of "social expectations" like the ones up for discussion in the thread, are stupid. If you have no expectations, then you won't get dicked over. I try to instead be pleasantly surprised whenever someone is kind enough to return a call or borrowed money or something, and I try to include those people in my life more than the people who don't.

EDIT: Obviously, I don't mean that you should never expect anything or act on what you expect to happen. I just mean I don't count on people to uphold their end of the bargain or do what they're supposed to, ever. Especially since what one is supposed to do isn't really commonly established and people have all sorts of different "social expectations" for what one is supposed to do. Sorry, I realized that I was originally writing about a kind of special definition for "expectation," and I wanted to make sure I was being specific.

As far as everyone being a dick when it serves them: well, yeah. Aggression is a useful and instinctive behavior, and there's certainly a time in life to be a dick and a time to respectful.

 

[Vault101]

what kind of expectations are we talking about? some people speculate porn/porn censorship is the reason for the rise in labia plastys

or if the guy wants to "finish" on the girls face or somthing? (eeewwww I feel dirty for saying that)

is porn bad? only if the guy watching it thinks thats how sex works I guess....Ive never seen any really, I dont know if Id find it all that "interesting" since it would probably be over the top fake and for a male audience

eather way if I was with a guy and he wanted me to do somthing I was uncomfortable with because he "saw it in porn" then...yeah no

 

[Legendairy314]

Interesting Topic. I do agree that sex has become a vastly less personal experience in general and the effects of which are very odd. Hell, the very idea of having sex with complete strangers fills up bars around the world on a daily basis. It's kind of disturbing considering that we advance so far in certain areas and still fill the need to act on some of the baser instincts.

Anyways, Porn. It's effects are more negative than people give it credit for, sure, but it is society that fuels that industry. Without our current culture state they wouldn't be viable in the slightest. The availability of public sharing and profit isn't going away anytime soon and I doubt Porn is either. It's depressing that people might base their own sexual experiences on porn but it's their own choice.

Personally, porn is kind of disturbing in the effects it has on your mind. Before I stopped watching it I would often have those unrealistic views on relationships and women in general. The very thought that it was having such a negative effect made me quit cold turkey (what an odd phrase). If people weren't so damn scared of mentioning sex and were less inclined to watch porn we might have better quality relationships overall. I know I'd be a better man because of it.

 

[HardkorSB]

There have been many arguments that the common viewing of pornography can put unreasonable expectations on women, and that men who want healthy relationships should not view any sort of porn.

It can also put unreasonable expectations on men. Women watch porn and masturbate as well. Most guys have to train to be able to last for an hour or longer or to be able to fuck 3 times one after another, most guys don't have dicks like male porn stars.

In roman and Greek times, If a women was larger, and had fair skin should was considered to be very attractive, whereas now the general consensus is that the skinnier the better.

I think that had more to do with the fact that large women with "fair skin" were wealthy enough to eat well and didn't have any diseases.
"The skinnier the better" is a stereotype though. A heavily reinforced stereotype (by such entities as Palyboy or Hustler) but a stereotype nevertheless. It's not the general consensus. Unless I'm living in the Twilight Zone or something because most guys I know don't like overly skinny women. Sure, a pretty face can be a factor here but for the most part, really skinny women look bad with their clothes off (and that's not just my opinion).

 

[Colour Scientist]

There have been many arguments that the common viewing of pornography can put unreasonable expectations on women, and that men who want healthy relationships should not view any sort of porn.

It can also put unreasonable expectations on men. Women watch porn and masturbate as well. Most guys have to train to be able to last for an hour or longer or to be able to fuck 3 times one after another

They don't really though. Most women can't go for an hour, after a while it becomes painful, if we're talking about an hour of penetrative sex. The porn industry itself will say that the sex in porn is for entertainment purposes only, no one in real life has sex like that and if they do it's probably awful, especially for he woman.
Sure, women masturbate to porn but, if they know anything about their own bodies, they know that what happens in porn would feel fucking awful in reality.

I think one of the main problems caused by porn, that I've experienced, is the way it influences what men think women want in bed and how they respond to it. The sex in porn is a show, it's not real. If you actually watch the girl's face, it's usually one of boredom/pain by the end if it and women don't orgasm in porn, they just don't.


OP: Personally, I think porn is fine, as long as you're aware that it's for entertainment purposes. The porn industry stuff is, for the most part, fucking awful and that it can cause unrealistic expectations. More diversity in porn would go a long way, I think, maybe show a woman actually enjoying herself.

 

[MetalMagpie]

In roman and Greek times, If a women was larger, and had fair skin should was considered to be very attractive, whereas now the general consensus is that the skinnier the better. So can we blame porn for this? Or is it culture?

It is almost always the case that desirable traits are simply whatever is most difficult to achieve, as it implies you belong to a privileged class (who have the time and money to care about their appearance).

In ancient times (when only the rich ate well) a larger figure was more difficult to achieve. Similarly, fair skin required being able to spend as little time as possible out in the sun. So a woman with fair skin and an ample frame (like a lot of the woman in classical sculpture) were considered the ideal.

Fast forward as far as the 1600s, and the situation hasn't changed much. The "perfect" female figure has shifted slightly from a "comfortable" frame to the more modern hourglass figure (huge bust, huge bum, tiny waist). But most common people still spend most of their time working outside. So the drive for beautiful white skin is stronger than ever. To achieve this impossible ideal, woman of the time distorted their bodies with corsets and painted their skin with lead-based makeup.

Fast forward again to the 1990s, and things have changed quite a bit. With more sedentary lifestyles and (comparatively) cheaper food, putting on weight is no longer the preserve of the rich. And with the vast majority of jobs taking place indoors, very few people acquire a natural tan from working in the sun. As a result, the most difficult "look" to achieve is dark-skinned and very thin.

Fast forward one final time to the present day. Sun beds have become very cheap to use, so people no longer need to afford foreign holidays to achieve a deep tan. As a result, dark skin is once again slipping out of the "ideal" image. But smooth, blemish-free skin (often achieved using many layers of makeup) is still sought after, and the average waistlines have only increased, making a skinny frame more desirable than ever.

But all of this only really applies to fashion. It has very little to say about sex appeal. Modern fashion magazines are generally full of rake-thin (often fairly androgynous) models. But those magazines are aimed at women.

The men's magazines and porn that I've seen (admittedly not a huge variety of either) have all contained women with big hips and big breasts. Because despite all of the above, men have been attracted to pretty much the same features of women since we were hunter-gatherers. Big hips, big breasts and a round bum are all associated with fertility.

Are unattainable ideals damaging to women? Possibly. But this isn't a new problem, and I certainly don't think porn is the worst offender.

 

[Doclector]

I think most people know that porn isn't very realistic as far as sex and sexual attraction goes. Even the people starring in it, many have been enhanced either surgically, with cosmetics, or even with editing.

On the rare occasion that someone is really that attractive? Well, that's just it. I think most people know that really, that level of attractiveness is rare.

If you ask me, it's the media that gives people unrealistic expectations, of themselves, of sex, of other people. They're the ones painting perfect pictures of beautiful people and passing them off as complete fact. Nobody said you should believe what porn teaches you about sex, but we're told that the media is the truth, and regularly, even people who should know better find themselves believing every word they say, simply because we're raised to believe that they are 100% factual.

 

[The_Echo]

So here is my question. Are these expectations unreasonable?

What expectations, exactly? That every girl should be down for anal and all-in for guzzling semen like no tomorrow? 'Cause, I mean, that's pretty much heterosexual porn in the nutshell as far as I know.

Well, yes, I would say that is an unreasonable expectation. Because it's gross. Porn is gross.

 

[Ducoman]

It doesn't matter honestly, because if a guy isn't getting sex, then he's going to find another outlet, and more often than not porn fits the bill perfectly.

You want to talk about unreasonable expectations, just peruse through the average bundle of female profiles on practically any dating website. THEN you will know what "unreasonable expectations" are.

 

[Starik20X6]

If you're the sort of person who thinks porn is an accurate reflection of real sexual relationships? Be sure to let me know how that works out for you, should make for some hilarious reading.

I wonder if those same people think that every police officer lives though the plot of Die Hard or Lethal Weapon every single day, or that aliens invade over New York most weekends.

 

[Nickolai77]

I think you have to be pretty naive to think that porn in anyway resembles real life sex. It's like playing call of duty and thinking it resembles real life combat. Why can't critics of both porn and videogames recognize the fact that most rational people differentiate between fact and fiction?

 

[grey_space]

Any expectations on anyone will always fuck you over. I may sound misanthropic right now, but any relationship stuff I've ever had anything to do with ends with you being completely fucked over. Don't blame porn, blame people, they're all dicks when it serves them.

I agree. It's all people's fault. More than one of my relationships have ended because of sexual issues. Mainly because the ladies in question over time got upset that I was not initiating things as often as they would like. In one case with one woman she was happy with the quality just not the quantity, with another girl she just wanted me to initiate things not necessarily to get sex but just so she could 'turn me down' and feel wanted.


go figure

 

[Angie7F]

Porn is fiction, so I would highly suggest people to date someone who can tell the difference between fiction and reality.

 

[Rawne1980]

Of course porn is fictional.

Anyone who thinks it represents real life is an absolute muppet.

Numerous times i've called out a plumber and not only do they never turn up on time i've never managed to get a fuck out of one either.

Although the amount they charge really does feel like they have shafted me.