Expectations, Relationships, Sex, Thoughts?

[Hagi]

I've no idea what can be done about that, in any practical sense. It's just that I think people are often too quick to dismiss the problem as being absurd.

I don't think it's so much dismissing the problem as saying the real issue is elsewhere.

If someone watches porn and then fully believes that that's what women enjoy then what's the problem?

The porn? The person? The education said person received? Something else?

If someone says there's no problem with porn it doesn't have to be a dismissal of the problem, it can also be a belief that the problem lies elsewhere.

In that case, yes, I meant people thinking it absurd and thus impossible that people would confuse pornography with sex.

Ah, right. My bad then.

Yeah... that does happen unfortunately... What's obvious to some isn't nearly always obvious to others.

 

[darlarosa]

Porn is part of culture so your statement is kinda redundant.
To me it's like this...everyone wants certain things in sex and a sexual partner the problem with porn and really any media is that these become expectations for men and for women to hold for not only others but themselves.

My thing is... I think the heavy prevalence of porn has contributed to the existence and use of labiaplasty and the idea of the average woman's vagina and general crotch being this horrible thing if it doesn't resemble the average porn star. Almost anyone should be able to make any decision about their body but, it just seems like most of it is insecure self mutilation due to a distortion of expectations of what a healthy fuckable vagina looks like. Which does a disservice to both sexes.

On a similar note big dicks are sooooooooo over hyped. Many women enjoy large penises, but many more think they are uncomfortable. That and I never understood it because most women rarely ever cum through vaginal sex alone...anywho. I don't think those help guys anymore than "perfect" vagina help women. Every porn site's ad section is "big dick this" "Huge dick that" "Vagina destroyer" or "Ron Jeremy's big secret". It's absolutely ridiculous.

All of these contribute to...what can only be called unnatural expectations that in essence tell people you they were born inferior or unfuckable or maybe a more gentle "You aren't desirable but we can help you buy our product". There's a difference between having expectations on weight or preferences for hair color...these kind of sexual expectations seem corrupt.

~Edit~
Now I will say with sexual acts it does shape or reinforce sexual desires and perceived norms(which I guess varies?). Sometimes I wonder if it sets an internal standard for behavior...

 

[gazumped]

This video is pretty interesting. It lays out many of the effects that porn has on the human brain. Granted, your mileage may vary, but I found it to be worth a watch.


As to whether it alters expectations... I think it could. It depends on the person, really. Not everyone is the same.

Yes, I shared this video with someone who has some troubles getting aroused and he said it made a lot of sense to him. He looks at some pretty weird stuff and sometimes has to be, in his words, "horrible" in the bedroom to get turned on. He said he'd consider cutting down, don't know if he did, though.

OP: Porn isn't bad in and of itself but there is good (as in responsible) porn and there is bad (irresponsible) porn. A (sex-positive) feminist blogger I know wrote this list which includes things that make porn more responsible/ethical, including not putting natural features like pubic hair into a 'freak fetish' category (which perpetuates that idea that women should be shaven down there or else it's 'weird'), and diverging away from the trend of making the male orgasm the most important part of the video (because it shouldn't all be about the guy's pleasure).

 

[NoeL]

Wait... It's degrading for me to say it's gentler is better but then you say most prefer it rough?

No, it was degrading for you to imply that "something had clearly gone terribly wrong in her life" because she happens to enjoy rough sex - especially when most women, in my experience, prefer a rough porn-style pounding over slow, gentle "love-making". But you clarified that was an exaggeration and that she did more than just take it rough, so it's a moot point now.

 

[someonehairy-ish]

Now the general consensus is that the skinnier the better.

I don't think it is. Magazines have stick thin models in them but ask just about any guy whether they find that attractive and they'll either say something like 'no I don't like the skeletal look' or just not really care at all.
Basically, magazines of these kinds are there to sell clothes. By constantly changing the size that's 'correct' they force people to keep buying new wardrobes. Blindly accepting what they say as any kind of indicator of actual 'consensus' is just straight up wrong.

 

[Madgamer13]

Greets!

Gender and sexuality has always been a issue to identify properly, especially with all the assumptions being made on what is good or bad in concept. Perceptions of experience also have an effect on assumptions made and identifications reached on issues of both sex and relationships, as well as the existence of experience at all.

For some, the latent connection to other people may be so autonomous that they simply cannot stop connecting to those within their community and beyond, resulting in relationships relating to intimacy to flourish with or without their input. Similarly, someone's autonomy can draw them away from others, making intimate relationships be quite literally something of legend to them.

Porn has been something that has been around for a very, very long time and if an individual's experience of a sexual relationship is porn, then they may find that they'll automatically link porn and relationship together. While it can be said that porn is fiction, people that have been recorded fucking for your entertainment may very well be real, even if they arn't really enjoying it. This realness may actually be what a watcher may be attracted to, even to the point of imagining themselves having something they may not have.

This is where the unrealistic expectations may come from, not that the parties included in the dirty simply cannot last anywhere near as long as mister longah peenus mc orgasmatron, but that those with these expectations have contructed something unrealistic in what happens before and after the deed. This isn't only limited to lonely 'nice guys who get no action' people either, expectations of a relationship stretches beyond gender, experience and orientation.

Ultimately, I believe that porn can never influence expectations in sexual activity, because when one goes at it, the activity itself is not what is being focused on, it is the other person/s. Even if the partaking individuals are not fully aware of it. These things happen for a reason and unrealistic expections are constructed for a reason, an important reason which those who suffer these expectations may be able to answer, if they search hard enough.

Unfortunately, I personally do not see many people who suffer these expectations to actually try to answer; Why?

 

[Mcupobob]

Interesting, I mean I view porn during my dry seasons... However, I don't want to have sex with someone I don't trust and have feelings for just for the sake of fucking.

If I enter I relationship with somebody I want to make sure I actually want to be around, kinda picky. Thats just me though if somebody wants to find someone who doesn't look at porn then good luck to them. Personal choice and all that.

 

[zumbledum]

Well you cant have an objective view so as we have subjective views its reasonably safe to assume that porn does alter male expectations (mostly) but there was a good interview with the people from Plenty of Fish and other dating sights on this here sight not long back, and women are way more out of whack than men so its my opinion that porn may cause some damage here its nothing compared to the damage romantic comedies and chick flicks like twilight do.


Myself i suffer from a raging case of poor mans wallet rich mans taste but i always have so i dont blame porn for it. Thank god for girls with daddy issues/low self esteem.

 

[zumbledum]

double post

 

[manic_depressive13]

My thing is... I think the heavy prevalence of porn has contributed to the existence and use of labiaplasty and the idea of the average woman's vagina and general crotch being this horrible thing if it doesn't resemble the average porn star.

I'm not sure I'm sympathetic to that either. Anyone so insecure as to alter their intimate body parts just to look like a porn star is, I suspect, someone who would alter some other part of their body to look like whatever other female figures are prominently displayed in media if porn wasn't such a big business. Certain vain women have been altering themselves in one way or another to attract men for generations.

Hell, guys who cater to a woman's every wish in order to get laid are called "nice guys" and are the laughing-stocks of the Internet. Why should a woman who caters to a man's every wish be any less mockable?

That's unfair. When you grow up being told constantly, if not always explicitly, that your appearance is the most important aspect of yourself, only to have it rubbed in your face everywhere you look how much you fall short, you are probably going to become insecure and vain as well. Women who get such surgeries don't do it because they 'want to look like pornstars'- they do it because they believe such bodies are the norm, and that their natural bodies are completely disgusting and undesirable. You don't really get a huge opportunity to compare genitals with others anywhere outside porn, so I think anyone who sees a pornstar's body (whether male or female) and is made to feel disgusting and inadequate is deserving of sympathy, not ridicule and disdain.

Nice guys are mocked because they think catering to a woman's every wish makes them entitled to sex from that woman. If a woman gets plastic surgery and then expects that any man of her choosing is obligated to fall in love with her, only then would those examples be remotely comparable.

 

[manic_depressive13]

But that's rather the case, is it not?

No. I would say a level of insecurity that compels you to have surgery done just to change your appearance is well within the territory of mental illness. I don't think mental illness is something to be ridiculed. Saying that people who stay with manipulative or abusive partners who make them feel insecure are just 'stupid' is an incredibly naive if not ignorant way to look at things. People are a product of their environment.

Since we're using anecdotal evidence I may as well admit that I used to feel incredibly insecure about my appearance, and especially about my sexual bits because I was raised to understand that my appearance (and my virginity) was the most important thing about me. The only reason I didn't see plastic surgery as an option was because I was also raised to believe that women who get aesthetic surgery done were stupid whores, so yay for a double round of misogyny being my saving grace. Now I have a lovely boyfriend and I understand that not everyone gives a shit about that stuff, but I think I was just fortunate to find someone like that as most people I know in uni are incredibly judgemental of other people's appearance.

I wonder if you believe that wearing makeup and hair removal is also a reason to ridicule women. After all, they are wasting hours of their time per week simply to maintain their bodies in a way which is considered conventionally attractive. Do you think everyone who shaves their legs and wears makeup is weak, pathetic and dependent? And if not, what's the difference between enhancing your appearance in that way rather than get plastic surgery? It probably winds up costing the same over time.

 

[darlarosa]

My thing is... I think the heavy prevalence of porn has contributed to the existence and use of labiaplasty and the idea of the average woman's vagina and general crotch being this horrible thing if it doesn't resemble the average porn star.

I'm not sure I'm sympathetic to that either. Anyone so insecure as to alter their intimate body parts just to look like a porn star is, I suspect, someone who would alter some other part of their body to look like whatever other female figures are prominently displayed in media if porn wasn't such a big business. Certain vain women have been altering themselves in one way or another to attract men for generations.

Hell, guys who cater to a woman's every wish in order to get laid are called "nice guys" and are the laughing-stocks of the Internet. Why should a woman who caters to a man's every wish be any less mockable?

I don't think that makes it right though, and it's not always as simple as vanity. Society gives us demands and norms all the time in subtle and obvious ways. Why shouldn't a person be insecure if everything around them tells them they are ugly and inferior. Why do so many white chicks dye their hair blonde? Because "blondes have more fun"? No. Society tells us that "blondes are superior than dull haired brunettes". Why do women( and some men) in India, Africa, and Asia buy bleaching creams? Because lighter is perceived as better and far more desirable. Its like learning right and wrong ways of being and acting. If someone is taught to believe being light skinned, or blonde, or having a "perfect" vagina is superior to everything else then is it really vain?

On that last thing... its pretty easy to explain...there are nice guys who are guys who are nice, and then there are "nice guys" who think they're being a decent human being entitles them to getting laid. The former are decent human beings who are generally all around nice, and have a mentality where a woman isn't a complete **** when she doesn't want to be more than friends. The latter are self delusional, manipulative, and ,from what I've seen, very much a self-deserving personality. This is why they go "I'm so nice why wouldn't she want to go out with me?" or "why is she going out with that dick instead of me", answer being "Because you never really insinuated romantic intentions, and/or you were only her "friend" because you wanted to fuck her". More often than not "nice guys" think they're "nice guys" but don't see why a woman wouldn't want to date them.

 

[manic_depressive13]

-

Why are you turning this into a big men vs women? Men do get abused by their partners, and if someone who was came to this forum for advice, only to be told to "grow a pair" that would be completely disgusting. I don't know what sort of horrible, ignorant person would say such a thing. I certainly wouldn't, and if you would you should be ashamed of yourself. Emotionally abusive relationships aren't a joke. You keep telling me all this crap you've seen 'women' do that has absolutely zero relevance to the discussion. You also don't seem to understand: the vast majority of men wouldn't pressure a woman to look like a porn star- but young women are exposed to these media where women are held up to a certain ideal and they feel insecure, disgusting and inadequate. People with self esteem don't enter abusive relationships, but when you have no self esteem, you think you're hideous and that no one will ever love you, you do.

Furthermore, no one WANTS to shave their legs and wear makeup. Some people lie to themselves and say they do. In reality they just like the confidence they feel when they wear makeup because they believe it makes them more attractive. Of course women don't have to wear makeup or shave their legs but there is enormous social pressure to do so.

 

[Abomination]

Porn is to real life sex as WWE/WWF is to sport.

It tries to be it, but we all know it's rigged and the parties involved are being paid.